Where is Chris Carmichael?

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Jan 13, 2010
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To me, Eddy B's culpability is arguable. Chris Carmichael's is not.

It's funny that just as US cycling is having some international notoriety, the sanctioning body (USCF) and national coaching staff are having the blind staggers in ethics. There is simply no moral center. How 1980s is that?
 
Feb 16, 2011
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Man, LA sure does owe Comical a lot.

Tygart knew Comical in Colorado Springs as their children went to the same school. At a Bday party one day, Comical brought up Betsy and villified her so completely and nastily that it piqued Tygart's BS detector.

Comical was too over the top. "What is he trying to keep me away from?" Tygart thought.

Great work, Comical, and thanks.
 
Feb 10, 2010
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Stingray34 said:
Man, LA sure does owe Comical a lot.

Tygart knew Comical in Colorado Springs as their children went to the same school. At a Bday party one day, Comical brought up Betsy and villified her so completely and nastily that it piqued Tygart's BS detector.

Comical was too over the top. "What is he trying to keep me away from?" Tygart thought.

Great work, Comical, and thanks.

Is there a public source for that?

His coaching business needs to be well-known as another fraud attached to the bigger fraud.. We can assume there's never going to be a perp walk.

I agree with ustabe as it fits my recollection of events.
 
May 10, 2009
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To be fair if Tygart needed Comical to talk like this, in order for alarm bells to sound, he's even more incompetent that I thought...but hey he got lance, he's a hero :rolleyes:
 
May 27, 2010
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Stingray34 said:
Man, LA sure does owe Comical a lot.

Tygart knew Comical in Colorado Springs as their children went to the same school. At a Bday party one day, Comical brought up Betsy and villified her so completely and nastily that it piqued Tygart's BS detector.

Comical was too over the top. "What is he trying to keep me away from?" Tygart thought.

Great work, Comical, and thanks.

If this is true (not saying it isn't, and I haven't read that far yet), then it is the Clinic 12 that owe Carmichael.

An unintended hero after all.

Dave.
 
Aug 11, 2012
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Kretch said:
Anything on Roll, Liggett or Sherwen in the book? The other 3 who need to be widely exposed.

Don't forget our dear friends Och and Comical(Carmichael).
 
May 27, 2010
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86TDFWinner said:
Don't forget our dear friends Och and Comical(Carmichael).

SPOILER ALERT













Yes, Och is indicated as the person behind the Triple Crown payola... or, at least was very aware/complicit.

Dave.
 
Jul 27, 2010
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Nothing on Roll or Sherwen, and very little on Liggett. There is a lot on Och, and Macur sums it all up brilliantly with this:

Over the course of seven years, I would walk away time and again thinking Ochowicz was either a practiced liar or the most oblivious man ever to walk in cycling’s clink-clink world.

And she notes this about Phil:

Phil Liggett, the Tour commentator for ABC television, pointed out that the French were having their worst showing at the Tour since 1926 and were just envious of Armstrong’s success. “No way he’s taking drugs,” he said. “They’re just knifing him over there.”

That's part of a passage where she notes the story lines of half a dozen or more major US newspapers, who called the French "jealous", "nuts", etc., to raise doping suspicions.

There's a lot on CC, whom Macur describes as "a prop to cover Armstrong’s involvement with Ferrari’s drug program." She emphasizes time and again that he was in it completely for the money. Notes that he was a major figure in persuading Armstrong to make a comeback, because of the financial benefits for him.
 
Jun 2, 2011
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Merckx index said:
Nothing on Roll or Sherwen, and very little on Liggett.

Although it sounds like JM has done a stella job and for example has shed more light on sleezes like CC and Och, it's a pity not more on the mouthpieces that were essential to monetizing the scam. Without Phil and Paul spruiking his every pedal stroke no way LA amasses $120 mln. They sold the scam to the masses.
 
Aug 11, 2012
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Kretch said:
Although it sounds like JM has done a stella job and for example has shed more light on sleezes like CC and Och, it's a pity not more on the mouthpieces that were essential to monetizing the scam. Without Phil and Paul spruiking his every pedal stroke no way LA amasses $120 mln. They sold the scam to the masses.

Great post
 
Aug 6, 2009
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I don't think there's anything to expose with Liggett and Sherwen. I just think they were overenthusiastic fanboys who understood that propping up Wonderboy would be good for business.

I think they were genuinely in awe of his accomplishments, but up until then they had never lost their perspective on the overall cycling scene until Armstrong began winning his tours. And the manner in which they went about it was utterly and completely shameless.

The disappointing aspect about this was how enthusiastically they became shills for the American cable network channel that paid them handsomely to play up the American Miracle on Two Wheels, and for that I cannot give them a pass.

Funny how at least Liggett has made critical public comments about the Armstrong affair, but not a peep out of Sherwen, Roll and Graham Watson that I know of.
 
May 27, 2010
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Berzin said:
I don't think there's anything to expose with Liggett and Sherwen. I just think they were overenthusiastic fanboys who understood that propping up Wonderboy would be good for business.

I think they were genuinely in awe of his accomplishments, but up until then they had never lost their perspective on the overall cycling scene until Armstrong began winning his tours. And the manner in which they went about it was utterly and completely shameless.

The disappointing aspect about this was how enthusiastically they became shills for the American cable network channel that paid them handsomely to play up the American Miracle on Two Wheels, and for that I cannot give them a pass.

Funny how at least Liggett has made critical public comments about the Armstrong affair, but not a peep out of Sherwen, Roll and Graham Watson that I know of.

Suggesting that Sherwen, Roll and Watson at least have a full brain between them?

Dave.
 
May 26, 2010
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Berzin said:
I don't think there's anything to expose with Liggett and Sherwen. I just think they were overenthusiastic fanboys who understood that propping up Wonderboy would be good for business.

I think they were genuinely in awe of his accomplishments, but up until then they had never lost their perspective on the overall cycling scene until Armstrong began winning his tours. And the manner in which they went about it was utterly and completely shameless.

The disappointing aspect about this was how enthusiastically they became shills for the American cable network channel that paid them handsomely to play up the American Miracle on Two Wheels, and for that I cannot give them a pass.

Funny how at least Liggett has made critical public comments about the Armstrong affair, but not a peep out of Sherwen, Roll and Graham Watson that I know of.

Ligget, Sherwin, Roll and Watson benefitted financially on the back of Armstrong. They should not get a free pass.

They assisted him in becoming the icon that could do no wrong, they were cogs in the machine that allowed Armstrong to declare "he liked his credibility more than Floyd's". That allowed him to become a 'Cancer Jesus' icon that was able to crush anyone who dared question his ability or whether he doped.

Nope they should not get a free pass. They participated in the fraud as much as any others to the detriment of plenty.
 

Big Doopie

BANNED
Oct 6, 2009
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Benotti69 said:
Ligget, Sherwin, Roll and Watson benefitted financially on the back of Armstrong. They should not get a free pass.

They assisted him in becoming the icon that could do no wrong, they were cogs in the machine that allowed Armstrong to declare "he liked his credibility more than Floyd's". That allowed him to become a 'Cancer Jesus' icon that was able to crush anyone who dared question his ability or whether he doped.

Nope they should not get a free pass. They participated in the fraud as much as any others to the detriment of plenty.

This.

And let's not forget that Sherwen was pr guy for Motorola when they were doped to the gills. He knew exactly how Armstrong was defrauding the public and he then went and sold that fraud for 10 years on tv.

Sherwen and Liggett are nasty pieces of sh!t.
 
Jun 16, 2010
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Berzin said:
I don't think there's anything to expose with Liggett and Sherwen. I just think they were overenthusiastic fanboys who understood that propping up Wonderboy would be good for business.

I think they were genuinely in awe of his accomplishments, but up until then they had never lost their perspective on the overall cycling scene until Armstrong began winning his tours. And the manner in which they went about it was utterly and completely shameless.

The disappointing aspect about this was how enthusiastically they became shills for the American cable network channel that paid them handsomely to play up the American Miracle on Two Wheels, and for that I cannot give them a pass.

Funny how at least Liggett has made critical public comments about the Armstrong affair, but not a peep out of Sherwen, Roll and Graham Watson that I know of.

I would argue the first huge clue to Armstrong's doping (or should have been a huge clue, in hindsight) came on Stage 9 in the 1999 TDF on the climb to Sestrieres. Armstrong, who previously had never been a climber, accelerated and caught Escartin and Conti, two top climbers and rode away from them.

This is also the stage when Betsy Andreu watching on TV from the USA could not believe how well Frankie was climbing and stated words to the effect, "What the hell, Frankie is not a climber" (paraphrasing).

Commentating on Armstrong's acceleration Liggett said, "... the acceleration of Armstrong is absolutely frightening here ..." I wonder if Liggett now reflects back to that day and his comments and has an "aha" moment?

I agree that both Liggett and Sherwin lost their perspective and became shills for Armstrong, USPS and American TV and were responsible for giving credibility to the Armstrong Lie.

It shows that in commentating as in everything else, when emotions overwhelm us critical thinking goes out the window. Critical thinking (not cynicism) is the key to the truth. We could use more of that in the Clinic!
 
Aug 5, 2009
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Kretch said:
Anything on Roll, Liggett or Sherwen in the book? The other 3 who need to be widely exposed.

Lance invested in Sherwen's gold mine! (Sorry if that's already written here)
 
Aug 9, 2010
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elizab said:
Lance invested in Sherwen's gold mine! (Sorry if that's already written here)

'gold mine'

in more ways than one..


Liggett and Roll staying pretty under the radar...
 
Nov 30, 2013
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RobbieCanuck said:
I would argue the first huge clue to Armstrong's doping (or should have been a huge clue, in hindsight) came on Stage 9 in the 1999 TDF on the climb to Sestrieres. Armstrong, who previously had never been a climber, accelerated and caught Escartin and Conti, two top climbers and rode away from them.

I would argue it was the press conference where instead of 'I've never tested positive' he had a freudian slip and said 'I've never been caught with anything'
 
Jun 16, 2010
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KoolAid Man said:
I would argue it was the press conference where instead of 'I've never tested positive' he had a freudian slip and said 'I've never been caught with anything'

That certainly adds fuel to the fire.
 
Jan 27, 2010
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So the Beard has to testify...

medical ward confessions, will he pull and Oliver North ..."not to my recollection."
doping teens
transporting dope
collusion with LA

Smackdown on the way?