Who is Floyd Landis?

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Dr. Maserati

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miloman said:
You hit the nail on the head. That is what bugs me. He needs to come clean, completely clean, tell the story from the beginning and then, maybe then, his motives will seem sincere. As it stands, his motives appear too self-serving to take seriously. He doesn’t strike me as someone who wants things to really change, just profit from blowing the whistle.
How do you know he has not come completely clean - have you read the rest of the emails he sent?

Of course when he tells the complete story he has people like you starting threads questioning his motives and calling him a "rat' for exposing others and a 'disgrace'.
 

flicker

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Barrus said:
I am serious here with this question. What would you rather have, that he didn't say anything and just followed suit, like all the other riders. Or that he at least state certain things and at least bring some of the doping out in the open and implicating doctors and DS's?


Also: Flicker, do you have anything to base what you just wrote?


It's also funny that none of those attacking Floyd says anything about blackmail anymore.:rolleyes:
Floyd is no Dybbuk.

B., I have vasillitated in many ways about Floyd. I have rambled my thoughts here about him. My mind has changed any many ways about him. First admiration for his victory. Who corrupted him? An enigma Floyd. I have read much about him.

I do think he is an extremely intelligent, motivated individual. He is an accountant, a record keeper, an attorney. Cunning, brilliant and foolish. He can still go far in his life if he goes towards the light and follows his heart.
 

Barrus

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I have no idea what you said, I do however know that you did not answer my question for a basis of your assumption
 
Jan 5, 2010
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Barrus said:
I am serious here with this question. What would you rather have, that he didn't say anything and just followed suit, like all the other riders. Or that he at least state certain things and at least bring some of the doping out in the open and implicating doctors and DS's?


Also: Flicker, do you have anything to base what you just wrote?


It's also funny that none of those attacking Floyd says anything about blackmail anymore.:rolleyes:
To me, he seems to be playing both ends against the middle. He is very selective about who he implicates, when and how. It seems more like a personal vendetta than a soul baring exercise with the intent of fixing the problem and make amends. I think there is an obvious credibility gap that he needs to address.

And based on what I have read of the emails and the circumstances surrounding his plea to be allowed to compete in the TOC, it does smack of blackmail and extortion, at least as I understand the terms.
 

Barrus

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miloman said:
To me, he seems to be playing both ends against the middle. He is very selective about who he implicates, when and how. It seems more like a personal vendetta than a soul baring exercise with the intent of fixing the problem and make amends. I think there is an obvious credibility gap that he needs to address.

And based on what I have read of the emails and the circumstances surrounding his plea to be allowed to compete in the TOC, it does smack of blackmail and extortion, at least as I understand the terms.
Really, have you read all the e-mails to the authorities? I have read only one, could you direct me to the other e-mails, would love to read them.
Funny thing is that he implicated almost only US riders and citizens in his e-mails. This might be because these e-mails were sent to the US cycling authorities.

Also, I have read the e-mails concerning the ToC, could you point me to anything, anything at all in these e-mails that could be construed as blackmail of extortion?
 
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flicker said:
. . . I do think he is an extremely intelligent, motivated individual. He is an accountant, a record keeper, an attorney. Cunning, brilliant and foolish. He can still go far in his life if he goes towards the light and follows his heart.
If he is all these things, and "brilliant" how did he end up broke, living in a "Shack" without any viable means of support, save the odd invitation to ride in a second tier cycling event. If you are familiar with the story of Chad Gerlach, ex-cyclist, addict, homeless person. He got his second chance with the Amore a Vita team, but quit after a season for personal reasons. As I understand it his, reason was he realised he needed to take personal responsibility for his actions and build a life for himself aside from cycling. I don't know if he was successful, but it sure sounded good.
 
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Barrus said:
Really, have you read all the e-mails to the authorities? I have read only one, could you direct me to the other e-mails, would love to read them.
Funny thing is that he implicated almost only US riders and citizens in his e-mails. This might be because these e-mails were sent to the US cycling authorities.

Also, I have read the e-mails concerning the ToC, could you point me to anything, anything at all in these e-mails that could be construed as blackmail of extortion?
There were numerous emails released. Armstrongs camp even released a number of them. And given what transpired aferwords, it is easy to see where one may assume that there would be trouble if he didn't get what he wanted. And I believe he implicated more than US citizens. I understand Michael Barry, Johan Bruyneel as well as other were named
 

Barrus

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miloman said:
There were numerous emails released. Armstrongs camp even released a number of them. And given what transpired aferwords, it is easy to see where one may assume that there would be trouble if he didn't get what he wanted.
Those e-mails I have read, so show me anything in them that can be construed as blackmail or extortion?

But still show me the other e-mails that have been sent to the authorities, as far as I know only one has been issued to the public. Can you point me to the other mails?
 
Jan 5, 2010
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Barrus said:
Those e-mails I have read, so show me anything in them that can be construed as blackmail or extortion?

But still show me the other e-mails that have been sent to the authorities, as far as I know only one has been issued to the public. Can you point me to the other mails?
http://velonews.competitor.com/2010/05/news/lance-armstrong-releases-emails-between-floyd-landis-and-the-tour-of-california_117763

I think the links are still active as well. Again, don't get me wrong, I believe most of what he says is true. I am not a fan of Armstrong, and I don't hate anyone, least of all Floyd. My point is, he lacks cred! Most everything he has done up to this point appears self-serving. Given all the testimonies being leaked from GJ appearances, it seems Armstrong influence is strong enough to keep many in line. Floyd's position seems less sure with every new witness. Maybe it's time for him to rethink a few things.
 
May 26, 2010
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miloman said:
http://velonews.competitor.com/2010/05/news/lance-armstrong-releases-emails-between-floyd-landis-and-the-tour-of-california_117763

I think the links are still active as well. Again, don't get me wrong, I believe most of what he says is true. I am not a fan of Armstrong, and I don't hate anyone, least of all Floyd. My point is, he lacks cred! Most everything he has done up to this point appears self-serving. Given all the testimonies being leaked from GJ appearances, it seems Armstrong influence is strong enough to keep many in line. Floyd's position seems less sure with every new witness. Maybe it's time for him to rethink a few things.
I have not seen anything that is self serving. If he kept his mouth shut he might be riding on a better team.

All the testimonies leaked? all we have heard is highly paid lawyer speak, which is hardly fact! we have not heard a squeak from Novitsky, but lots of misinformation from Armstrongs camp in this investigation.

I think Floyd looks like he is a healthier position than a year ago. he is racing his bike and at the moment that is the most important thing in his life right now.
 
Jul 17, 2009
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Colm.Murphy said:
You already posted this stuff.. No one really cared then, and no one cares now.

I tried to offer my opinion. No on else really took an interest.

Stop clogging this forum with repeat posts.
In other words: Please make am a moderator I really want to be one
 

Dr. Maserati

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miloman said:
http://velonews.competitor.com/2010/05/news/lance-armstrong-releases-emails-between-floyd-landis-and-the-tour-of-california_117763

I think the links are still active as well. Again, don't get me wrong, I believe most of what he says is true. I am not a fan of Armstrong, and I don't hate anyone, least of all Floyd. My point is, he lacks cred! Most everything he has done up to this point appears self-serving. Given all the testimonies being leaked from GJ appearances, it seems Armstrong influence is strong enough to keep many in line. Floyd's position seems less sure with every new witness. Maybe it's time for him to rethink a few things.
Rather than just post the link why not just do as 'Barrus' requested and show exactly where Floyd blackmailed anyone.
 
Jul 17, 2009
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Floyd would be best served learning to play poker and hit the Celebrity Poker player party circuit

it pays well and he can tell jokes about himself and sell more chips

works for Kato Kaelin and broke child child actors now adults
 
Jan 5, 2010
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Dr. Maserati said:
Rather than just post the link why not just do as 'Barrus' requested and show exactly where Floyd blackmailed anyone.
Read the story, it puts it better than I can. I'm not saying he blackmailed or extorted money from anyone. I said it "smacks" of blackmail and extortion. big differnce: Definition Smack of Something to have some of the characteristics or qualities of something. I also said . . And given what transpired aferwords, it is easy to see where one may assume that there would be trouble if he didn't get what he wanted. Points I made and points I will stand behind. His story does not play well to me and I would guess many others as well. If he is coming clean. Tell us more. What role did his ex-wife play and other family members. I am sure he wants to protect his people and his privacy, but I don't believe you can have it both ways. He made serious allegations. Armstrong, Zabriski and Hincapie have families. Why should they be brought into this and not Floyd's family? When you stir the pot you can't be to picky about what comes to the suface!
 
May 21, 2010
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miloman said:
http://velonews.competitor.com/2010/05/news/lance-armstrong-releases-emails-between-floyd-landis-and-the-tour-of-california_117763

I think the links are still active as well. Again, don't get me wrong, I believe most of what he says is true. I am not a fan of Armstrong, and I don't hate anyone, least of all Floyd. My point is, he lacks cred! Most everything he has done up to this point appears self-serving. Given all the testimonies being leaked from GJ appearances, it seems Armstrong influence is strong enough to keep many in line. Floyd's position seems less sure with every new witness. Maybe it's time for him to rethink a few things.
I hate to tell you this but this ball has already started down the hill. So whether, in your opinion, "he lacks cred" or not is irrelevant. And how you can say that "Floyd's position seems less sure with every new witness" when you aren't privy to any of the testimonies involved?
 
May 26, 2010
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miloman said:
....... Armstrong, Zabriski and Hincapie have families. Why should they be brought into this and not Floyd's family? When you stir the pot you can't be to picky about what comes to the suface!
when one starts down the road of cheating whether it is in sports, work or life, one must face the consequences when caught. If their families are caught in this that is their fault their actions. It's not Floyds fault who gets caught up in this as Novitsky was looking into doping in pro cycling in the us with Michael Rock before Floyd went public.
 
Jan 5, 2010
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Elagabalus said:
I hate to tell you this but this ball has already started down the hill. So whether, in your opinion, "he lacks cred" or not is irrelevant. And how you can say that "Floyd's position seems less sure with every new witness" when you aren't privy to any of the testimonies involved?
Just an observation, not a fact! I don't have, and don't pretend to have any inside information. I don't think I am alone when the stories come out about another witness going before the GJ, hoping to hear some corroboration of Floyd's or Betty's stories, but in turn hear something supportive of Armstrong. This and Floyd's previous life of lies is why I say he lacks cred.
 
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Benotti69 said:
when one starts down the road of cheating whether it is in sports, work or life, one must face the consequences when caught. If their families are caught in this that is their fault their actions. It's not Floyds fault who gets caught up in this as Novitsky was looking into doping in pro cycling in the us with Michael Rock before Floyd went public.
I think you mean Michael Ball and Rock Racing was the team. And I don't disagree, but it can't be on just one side of the fence, So Floyd cheated and Floyd's family should take a hit too according to your logic.
 

Dr. Maserati

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miloman said:
Read the story, it puts it better than I can. I'm not saying he blackmailed or extorted money from anyone. I said it "smacks" of blackmail and extortion. big differnce: Definition Smack of Something to have some of the characteristics or qualities of something. I also said . . And given what transpired aferwords, it is easy to see where one may assume that there would be trouble if he didn't get what he wanted. Points I made and points I will stand behind. His story does not play well to me and I would guess many others as well. If he is coming clean. Tell us more. What role did his ex-wife play and other family members. I am sure he wants to protect his people and his privacy, but I don't believe you can have it both ways. He made serious allegations. Armstrong, Zabriski and Hincapie have families. Why should they be brought into this and not Floyd's family? When you stir the pot you can't be to picky about what comes to the suface!
So it was a false assumption.

Ok, so he has not tried to balckmail anyone - now where has he brought up Hincapies, LA's or Zabriskies families in to this? I don't remember there names neing mentioned except for Kristin who was a witness to one of the transactions.

Or is this an assumption too?
 
May 26, 2010
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miloman said:
I think you mean Michael Ball and Rock Racing was the team. And I don't disagree, but it can't be on just one side of the fence, So Floyd cheated and Floyd's family should take a hit too according to your logic.
Micheal Ball yep. ta for the correction.

Floyd cheated and got caught and yep his family took a huge hit. It should serve as a warning to other athletes prepared to cheat their way to the top. They should think bout who it will hurt, if and when they are caught. I think it is unfair when others suffer from someones selfish actions but that is the way it happens.
 

Barrus

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miloman said:
Read the story, it puts it better than I can. I'm not saying he blackmailed or extorted money from anyone. I said it "smacks" of blackmail and extortion. big differnce: Definition Smack of Something to have some of the characteristics or qualities of something. I also said . . And given what transpired aferwords, it is easy to see where one may assume that there would be trouble if he didn't get what he wanted. Points I made and points I will stand behind. His story does not play well to me and I would guess many others as well. If he is coming clean. Tell us more. What role did his ex-wife play and other family members. I am sure he wants to protect his people and his privacy, but I don't believe you can have it both ways. He made serious allegations. Armstrong, Zabriski and Hincapie have families. Why should they be brought into this and not Floyd's family? When you stir the pot you can't be to picky about what comes to the suface!
Allright, show me the parts of these e-mails that look like it is blackmail or extortion? I have read the entire e-mail discussion and still have zeen nothing which can be seen as extortion or blackmail or anything that looks like that (also there is the big probability that Flandis was already working with the proper authorities a lot earlier).

Also where has he brought in the families of others? Really, have you read more e-mails of Flandis that have been sent to the authorities, this is the same question as I posed earlier, but have yet to get an answer for. You said things that have not been disclosed in any e-mails that have been printed yet, or at least nowhere that I found, so please show me those e-mails I've missed
 
Jan 5, 2010
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Dr. Maserati said:
So it was a false assumption.

Ok, so he has not tried to balckmail anyone - now where has he brought up Hincapies, LA's or Zabriskies families in to this? I don't remember there names neing mentioned except for Kristin who was a witness to one of the transactions.

Or is this an assumption too?
Reading between the lines or putting your spin on what I post -- I guess that's your prerogative. But it's a big picture issue. Do you think anyone related to those Floyd fingered, aren't feeling the pinch? Do you think that children, wives, sisters, brothers, parents etc. are immune to feeling any anxiety over this. Then you have other aspects of the story like the Oakley rep claiming to LeMond that George took so many drugs, she wondered what his daughter would look like. . . it has all become part of the same story, and Floyd is the catalyst. Maybe you are one of the rare inividual who can compatmentalize things like this and not let it effect you, but I would guess thats not the case with most people. I'm sure a lot of people close to these riders are feeling the effects too. It's called collateral damage!
 
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Barrus said:
Allright, show me the parts of these e-mails that look like it is blackmail or extortion? I have read the entire e-mail discussion and still have zeen nothing which can be seen as extortion or blackmail or anything that looks like that
From the Velonews story:

In a statement prefacing the email communication, the RadioShack team’s legal counsel writes, “In leveling these false and baseless accusations, Landis provided selected emails to multiple journalists in connection with his public statements on Wednesday evening. What was not conveyed were descriptions of the threatening text messages from Landis to others, including Lance Armstrong, that began more than two years ago.”

“Most recently,” the team statement continues, “Landis and his team owner sent emails to a variety of parties, including Amgen, the race sponsor, and to the president of Trek Bicycle, an Armstrong and RadioShack corporate sponsor. As Landis’s sponsor put it, Amgen had killed Floyd’s plan for the California race after Landis was run out of the United Healthcare team. In that email and others, he suggests a spot for Floyd on the RadioShack team. Having been refused, Landis later communicated directly with Armstrong and threatened to “say directly that I’m going to accuse you and our former team mates of using blood doping and performance enhancing drugs to help you to win the three Tours de France in which we raced together.” Armstrong’s response to Landis was identical to the responses to the same type of threatening text messages received from Landis two years ago – there would be no consideration, money, team positions or anything else given in exchange for not airing false accusations.”

Shortly after the messages posted online Friday, Bicycling Magazine’s Joe Lindsey asked Armstrong, via Twitter, why he hadn’t posted his replies.

Armstrong answered “I never wrote back…,” adding that his only replies to Landis were text messages Armstrong sent Landis years ago, “in which I did respond, “do what you have to do, I can’t help you. Take care.”

Seems like something close to that to me.
 
Jul 6, 2010
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miloman said:
Point being everyone has expenses. I don't know what his overhead is, but he has to meet finacial obligation just like you and I. I get the sense he feels entitled to something or is owed. Cycling is a cruel mistress who rarely makes good on promises. I feel for him, but I also feel for the many riders who chose not to dope and never got a chance to compete at the highest level. They never got the chance to see just how good they were because of riders like Floyd.
You were really starting to p*ss me off, until the bolded bits. Good on ya, I couldn't agree more...
 

Barrus

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Did you read the e-mails?
I can't find the e-mails anymore, they appear to have been deleted of the radioshack site, once again. But this was in none of the e-mails:
“say directly that I’m going to accuse you and our former team mates of using blood doping and performance enhancing drugs to help you to win the three Tours de France in which we raced together.”
If you would not take my word, how about that of the New York Times:
Bruyneel has characterized Landis’s efforts as “blackmail,” but the messages posted Friday focused on Landis’s effort to race at the Tour of California, not on a money-for-silence scheme.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/22/sports/cycling/22cycling.html
This is concerning the same e-mails as which the velonews article is based

What you posted was just the statement of the Radioshack team, something that was disproven and ridiculed on, among other outlets, this very forum
 

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