Who was the real winner of Flanders?

[ianfra]

I was a cycling journalist in the 1960s. In the '60s, while at the London College of Journalism I wrote an in depth feature as part of my course work entitled "Doping in Sport". That was 1965. By the time the Festina scandal reared its ugly head I was writing about Speech Pathology, Psychology, mental health issues and so on. Not that I have to justify myself to you, it was your sarcasm that provoked me.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Dr Masher Ratty: If you want to communicate with D Brailsford, I say good luck to you! I have no direct line to him. In fact as you can see I live in Thailand - a fair bit away from the UK. As a journalist I would be fascinated to say the least with the results of any interview/confrontation (call it what you will) and it is of course entirely up to you to organise that. Anyway, keep me posted as to what happens....................................................
I am not aware of anything that has been published about Hayles when he was a Cofidis rider. If anyone can send me the link to the book, I'd appreciate that. As far as I can see there is a lot of unsubstantiated cr#p on this forum where opinion is pedalled as fact. If I tried to do the same in my writing, I think I'd be sued quicker than you can say 'Bigots'. So I don't go in for unsubstantiated allegations many of which in this thread, I reiterate, are total and utter nonsense.

Just to clarify - you have no direct link to DB or British Cycling?

This is where I have a difficulty understanding your positon as you wrote this earlier

I challenge you, all of you, to confront Brailsford. I challenge you to truly look at the British Cycling programme and what messages it is delivering on a daily basis to its riders. From my French base I have ridden with some French riders who are vehemently anti-dopage, so it is not just the brits.

....how can you defend an organization if you have no direct link or involvement?


You have said you are a journalist - then I assumed you fact checked this next piece that you wrote earlier...

These guys are tested more than in any other sport and I believe the inside observers who now assert that 95% of the pro riders are non-users.

Now, the only person I can imagine making such a statement is, what was it you called him -"the Irish goblin who runs the UCI".
If you wrote to PMcQ asking for data to back up that claim then I am not surprised he did not respond to your correspondence.
BTW If you want Pat to acknowledge you I believe cash works.

I have no idea if British Cycling or indeed Cancellara are doped are not -and this is my point, neither do you.

But I sure don't just take their word for it - the history of this sport has shown many times that the words and actions of those running the sport cannot be trusted.

 

[ianfra]

I have a British cycling licence. I have been a member for many years. Until last year I was a volunteer coach on the junior Go Ride programme. I live in Thailand and France. I ride 1,200 miles a month. I am wearing grey underpants but no socks. I do not believe that Brailsford or those running the British Cycling programme are serial liars. I have been the recipient of very strong messages that BC gives out to its coaches and members. Anything else you want to know?

 

[pedaling squares]

Meticulous prep involves everything but they do it clean. UK sport test the riders more times than you an shake a stick at and they are independent of BC so aren't likely to turn a blind eye

There are far too many examples of dirty riders who tested clean for this argument to carry much weight. I am all for testing, but there are ways around the tests as many riders and support staff have told us.

... Let me repeat. I personally believed that doping is becoming a scourge of the past - yes, some stupid people will still try to buck the system, but that number is falling ...

I agree with you that we are more likely seeing an overall cleaner and more competitive peloton than we saw 15 years ago. But every positive test or funky blood value pattern brings that scourge of the past into the present. Maybe we don't have the entire bunch jacked on EPO, but I believe we're still seeing some similar results at the top end via blood manipulation.

 

[pedaling squares]

I have a British cycling licence. I have been a member for many years. Until last year I was a volunteer coach on the junior Go Ride programme. I live in Thailand and France. I ride 1,200 miles a month. I am wearing grey underpants but no socks. I do not believe that Brailsford or those running the British Cycling programme are serial liars. I have been the recipient of very strong messages that BC gives out to its coaches and members. Anything else you want to know?

boxers or briefs?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I have a British cycling licence. I have been a member for many years. Until last year I was a volunteer coach on the junior Go Ride programme. I live in Thailand and France. I ride 1,200 miles a month. I am wearing grey underpants but no socks. I do not believe that Brailsford or those running the British Cycling programme are serial liars. I have been the recipient of very strong messages that BC gives out to its coaches and members. Anything else you want to know?

Yes! Where did the "95% of the Pro riders are non users" come from?

As for your history, we have a lot more in common then you would think.
(and no I am not on about underwear or socks).

While some teams have come in with new ideas and approaches - which is good - overall little has changed since Puerto to assume that there is any great change to the doping problem within the sport.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

+1 I got my panties all in a bunch over Cancellara being accused of doping after a classic win. These last pages are all about Dr.So and so and British cycling cleanliness.Did any Brit even place in Flanders? If you start something in the clinic make sure there is name or fact that has to do with the rider or the race. Wiggins,Gaumont,Ratty,Brailsford even sexually transmitted disease has worked it's way into a Flanders thread all it would seem to be unrelated

Pretty lofty goals you are setting for yourself there.

If you have such a big problem with British Cycling being brought up on this thread my advise would be to take it up with the poster who brought it up, as it was not me

 

[BikeCentric]

I was a cycling journalist in the 1960s. In the '60s, while at the London College of Journalism I wrote an in depth feature as part of my course work entitled "Doping in Sport". That was 1965. By the time the Festina scandal reared its ugly head I was writing about Speech Pathology, Psychology, mental health issues and so on. Not that I have to justify myself to you, it was your sarcasm that provoked me.

Okay, so did you break any stories on amphetamine use? Benzedrine ring a bell?

 

[Escarabajo]

... I am mighty fed up with these know-it-alls accusing all and sundry of doping. I too have been involved in this sport for a long time - 49 years to be precise. I have been a cycling journalist back in the dark old days and have been a rider and observer for many years. At home here in Thailand I have a library of cycling books comprising of 500+ titles plus many magazines (every copy of cycling weekly since 1932) and so on. ...

I am shock that a journalist of your experience have not realized the truth about doping in the Pro-Peloton.

 

[BikeCentric]

I am shock that a journalist of your experience have not realized the truth about doping in the Pro-Peloton.

We can only conclude that his journalistic ineptitude is directly responsible for the death of Tom Simpson. If he had pulled his head out of his a$$, done his job, and reported on the rampant Benzedrine use in the pro peloton at the time he was a reporter then maybe poor Tom wouldn't have had to die for pro cycling.

 

[BroDeal]

Meticulous prep involves everything but they do it clean. UK sport test the riders more times than you an shake a stick at and they are independent of BC so aren't likely to turn a blind eye. The weight loss on wiggins is a blindingly simple thing that has targeted dead weight that can be removed with no loss of power. Can't go into the details as it wouldn't be fair.

By getting in experts from other sports to look at cycling in a different way it has been possible to identify areas of gain that are legal but have't been tried before.

As far as the whole leap in finish position of wiggins, his result last year just shows that if you are allowed to target a tour and don't have to burn matches fetching bottles etc, it is possible to join the pointy end of the action.

I thought this sort of jingoistic nonsense went out of style during the first half of the last century. Apparently it is alive and doing quite well in jolly old England.

You old brits are just too smart for the rest of us morons who don't live on islands with crummy weather. Weight loss? No one would ever think of that. If only that non-anglo rabble who live in other countries were not so lazy. They would not have to take drugs. They would all use innovative and legal methods that are just as good as dope. Of course, no one would ever think of using these mythical clean methods combined with drugs to produce an even greater effect. That would not be cricket.

It is good that the only requirement to turn a bottle carrier into a Tour de France contender is targeting the race. A hundred and ninety-eight riders will be glad to hear that. This year's battle for fourth place will be one for the ages. One thing is sure. The race will need a much bigger podium dais.

 

[bobbins]

Read the post properly before you respond.

There is a way to easily shift a couple of kilos of weight quickly and with no detrimental effects. No one has tried this method before so there you have it, a drug free innovation that improves performance and is legal but not widely known about.

From your other comments it is obvious that you aren't aware of how the Tour is raced so I won't bother to try to educate you. It is amusing to think that there are people who think that the entire Tour peleton is racing for the win! That's hilarious

 

[BikeCentric]

There is a way to easily shift a couple of kilos of weight quickly and with no detrimental effects. No one has tried this method before so there you have it, a drug free innovation that improves performance and is legal but not widely known about.

Are you on crack? Every cyclist who has ever toed the line for a race knows the sport is all about power/weight ratio. Lose the unnecessary weight (i.e. reduce body fat as much as possible and lose upper body muscle) and strengthen the leg muscles, then finish in the lead group. It's not rocket science. Your insinuation that Wigans is somehow the only rider to ever try this is perhaps the most laughably *** thing that anyone has ever posted on this forum and that's one heck of a big prize.

 

[BroDeal]

Yes! Where did the "95% of the Pro riders are non users" come from?

It came straight from his imagination and was birthed to the world through his nether oriface.

I would really like to know when this miraculous transformation of the pro peloton took place. The top ten of the 2005 Tour is a rogues gallery if not a farce, so obviously the transformation had to take place after that. 2006 was the year of FLandis and Operacion Puerto. That could not be the year. 2007 saw The Chicken and the riders in black. 2008 saw everyone from Kohl to Ricco to Schumacher to Rebellin busted for CERA. 2009's second place Giro finisher was also busted for CERA, and the only thing that appears to have changed at the Tour is the UCI and ASO got rid of the AFLD, which was responsible for finding so many riders positive at the 2008 edition of the race. I guess we are left to conclude that the change happened sometime in the last eight months. You would think someone would have said something on Twitter. Maybe I missed it. I'll check.

I guess I did.

@world Big rider pow wow in December. We all decided to stop doping. Hooray!

 

[Cerberus]

Read the post properly before you respond.

There is a way to easily shift a couple of kilos of weight quickly and with no detrimental effects. No one has tried this method before so there you have it, a drug free innovation that improves performance and is legal but not widely known about.

From your other comments it is obvious that you aren't aware of how the Tour is raced so I won't bother to try to educate you. It is amusing to think that there are people who think that the entire Tour peleton is racing for the win! That's hilarious

Yeah, I'd ask you to prove that, but "oh wait, it's a secret!" Isn't that just convenient.

 

[bobbins]

Are you on crack? Every cyclist who has ever toed the line for a race knows the sport is all about power/weight ratio. Lose the unnecessary weight (i.e. reduce body fat as much as possible and lose upper body muscle) and strengthen the leg muscles, then finish in the lead group. It's not rocket science. Your insinuation that Wigans is somehow the only rider to ever try this is perhaps the most laughably *** thing that anyone has ever posted on this forum and that's one heck of a big prize.

Where did I state that he was losing body fat?

Oh, I didn't. That's the clever bit, you ***!

 

[BroDeal]

Where did I state that he was losing body fat?

Oh, I didn't. That's the clever bit, you ***!

Just think of how much more weight this rider could lose if he knew the super secret British weight loss plan.

I bet there are grundles of cyclists out there, stuffing their faces with pies and cakes, who never even dreamed that weight loss might possibly be beneficial for cycling performance. We should get Jamie Oliver to lead a food revolution in cycling.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Those Schleck boys sure look like they could benefit from something like that as well. And imagine how Contador might dominate if he would stop stuffing his fat face and get down to fighting weight.

 

[Digger]

To Bobbins and Ianfra, what basis, outside of anecdotal, do you have to say that the sport is becoming cleaner? Did I even see one of you mentioning 95%? A mighty bold statement, with nothing to back it up. Are we seriously back to negative tests?
The bio passport is a farce and is merely window dressing - until one of the big guns are caught out with it, I will continue to hold this view.
Also, weight loss notion is actually quite amusing.
Look at what lemond says about his experiences in the early 90s. Around the minute mark. And Bradley himself says that he was 4% at June 28 of last year. How he managed to get to Paris, if that's true, is beyond me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9u3AQNI9FI

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Where did I state that he was losing body fat?

Oh, I didn't. That's the clever bit, you ***!

OMG, British Cycling cut off Bradleys willy.

 

[Digger]

Omg, british cycling cut off bradleys willy.

lol..........:d

 

[BikeCentric]

OMG, British Cycling cut off Bradleys willy.

I don't know if "clever" is the word I'd use for that; I think he must have meant "cleaver."

 

[Machine]

Meticulous prep involves everything but they do it clean. UK sport test the riders more times than you an shake a stick at and they are independent of BC so aren't likely to turn a blind eye. The weight loss on wiggins is a blindingly simple thing that has targeted dead weight that can be removed with no loss of power. Can't go into the details as it wouldn't be fair.

By getting in experts from other sports to look at cycling in a different way it has been possible to identify areas of gain that are legal but have't been tried before.

As far as the whole leap in finish position of wiggins, his result last year just shows that if you are allowed to target a tour and don't have to burn matches fetching bottles etc, it is possible to join the pointy end of the action.

I think you admit that weight loss isn't a brand new strategy when you point out that it is blindingly simple. It is a new strategy for Wiggins, however, and he has benefited from this greatly.

You are right that British cycling has put a lot of money into technology and studies on looking for the edge. Wiggins has talked about how they've got scientists timing all the attacks at previous tour de frances to see if they can work out some formula. This type of thing won't necessarily bring any real benefits on the road, but it is something British fans can be pleased about.

There is nothing particularly wrong with jingoism in sport in particular. It's just that a small group of mainly American cycling fans have reacted against their own notoriously patriotic society by turning anti patriotism into a sort of cult. It's the in-thing to completely despise and smear their own riders to the point of parody. That's fine, they can despise their own riders all want if they wish to, but they shouldn't just expect people from other countries to be in their cult. They must understand that it's a psychological phenomenon relevant to their own experience of American society and therefore not something that will mean anything to people outside of it.

In Britain the problem is we're often not patriotic enough, therefore we try to overcompensate with sports and release ourselves from our negativity, so it's the sort of opposite situation to the yanks.

 

[Digger]

I think you admit that weight loss isn't a brand new strategy when you point out that it is blindingly simple. It is a new strategy for Wiggins, however, and he has benefited from this greatly.

You are right that British cycling has put a lot of money into technology and studies on looking for the edge. Wiggins has talked about how they've got scientists timing all the attacks at previous tour de frances to see if they can work out some formula. This type of thing won't necessarily bring any real benefits on the road, but it is something British fans can be pleased about.

There is nothing particularly wrong with jingoism in sport in particular. It's just that a small group of mainly American cycling fans have reacted against their own notoriously patriotic society by turning anti patriotism into a sort of cult. It's the in-thing to completely despise and smear their own riders to the point of parody. That's fine, they can despise their own riders all want if they wish to, but they shouldn't just expect people from other countries to be in their cult. They must understand that it's a psychological phenomenon relevant to their own experience of American society and therefore not something that will mean anything to people outside of it.

In Britain the problem is we're often not patriotic enough, therefore we try to overcompensate with sports and release ourselves from our negativity, so it's the sort of opposite situation to the yanks.

God don't you just love sweeping generalisations that have little or nothing to do with doping in cycling. It couldn't possibly have anything to do with these people knowing what they're talking about.

 

[bobbins]

It's simple when you work it out. Take any top cyclist at the peak of their form and at racing weight and then remove another 3 - 4kgs of dead weight.

It isn't rocket science but for some here it would seem that they have had dead weight removed from between their ears so are struggling to understand.