Why does Wiggins get more favoritism than Menchov? Look a their resumes.

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Fetisoff said:
You're welcome to disagree all you want.
This is a forum we're on, and my point was on why Wigans gets more favoritism on this forum. So yeah, I think forums have something to do with that.

If we're to only discuss the media - I can ask a question "Why does Menchov get more favoritism in the Russian media than Wigans". Does anyone really need an answer to that question?
Is Menchov getting any attention from the Russian media?
 
Jan 22, 2011
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The Hitch said:
Is Menchov getting any attention from the Russian media?
Cycling isn't a sport that gets much attention in Russia, tbh. But, unlike last year, I've seen a few articles here and there mostly on sports websites about cycling, Denis, and the TDF.

I remember last year, during Giro and Vuelta there were 5 minute bits on Russia Sports (one of the 5-6 main channels in Russia) every day on the race, mentioning where Denis finished, even on flat stages :)
TDF I don't think I was in Russia for so I could only judge by the abovementioned websites
 
May 30, 2009
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Azabael said:
2005, 2007 and arguably 2009. Failed focus on the Tour. I know he won the Giro in 2009, but peak wise he rode the giro in preparation of the tour like in '08 where he rode top5 in both.
:confused: You can't be serious, if any, the years you list speak to how stable Menchov is.

2005 was not a year for him to target TdF. He would have had no chance against Ulrich and the all dominating Basso, no his target was the Vuelta which he had placed in top 5 the year before. Guess who won. :p
For 2007, there's a rider called the Chicken. Menchov simply stood off his bike and instead won the Vuelta including its mountain classification. It hardly backs your argument about wobbly TdF performance.
Ignoring Fränk Schleck's excuse, there's a big difference between riding for the win and riding to get in shape. Winning the Giro is not in any means a good preperation for winning TdF, just ask Contador. Menchov went for the victory because the opertunity arose and the year after where he didn't ride the Giro he placed 2nd (3rd) in TdF. Here's a question for you, did Menchov ride the Giro this year? If any, Menchov's ability in 2008 to ride the Giro and place 5th (after a string of bad luck) in TdF show his consistency.

Azabael said:
The thing you however seem to overlook is that the Wiggins of 2012 isn't the same as before, as mentioned in one of my earlier posts concerning his sublime peaking abilities.
I am not overlooking anything in regard to Wiggins, but in Denmark we have the saying "the trees do not grow into the sky" (no pun intended). Wiggin's 3 week stability and climbing skills are still unproven. I do not mind wishful thinking being included but at least it should be allowed on both sides of the fence. We have had two days showing that Menchov is not out of shape, he seems as strong as ever. If treated equally then Menchov got just as much right to be considered as an obvious favorite as Wiggins.

Azabael said:
If you apply the same logic as we did to Menchov and Schleck, then yes he indeed had a few inconsistent tours. But like I not only mentioned in this post, everything is relative and you need to place it in perspective. Our choice here is to prioritize known facts from the past and decide which give the best indication on how they will perform in the race we are currently watching.
But it's the relative part where your fault of being baised is to be found. As I pointed out in the beginning, Menchov is not inconsisten but has had different priorities. I hoped pointing to Wiggins' inconsistency would work as a wake-up call to you. :D Like I already mentioned, the Menchov we currently are seeing is the Menchov who wins his races, which nullifies all prior results this year just like it would have been with an Andy in top shape.

Azabael said:
And because every rider is different, peakwise, different rules can apply to different riders. Menchov and Schleck are riders who can have one or two goals in the season, where as Wiggins can have many due to a constant high basic level.
Which is the very reason why I mentioned Andy to you in the first place.

Azabael said:
I agree on seeing Wiggins as a bigger favourite. One word, that might need some backup, says enough. Inconsistency. You never know with Menchov when he's really going to do well, not until the very moment itself. Wiggins on the other hand, has shown this year he's the master of peaking and not just once a year. Add that to the fact that his peaks have throughout the entire season proven to be high enough to take on anyway that challenged him, and I think we have a completed arguement as long as people are not blind for facts.
I just want to point out that consistency in it self mean nothing or else we'd always have to treat Andy Schleck like a surprise when TdF hits.

But yes, Wiggins deserves to be admired for the consistency he has shown this year, it's a guy with a clear aim.
Azabael said:
So to simply say we should base our speculations on what riders are capable of in their top form is ridiculous. That's the same as judging a murderer on who he can be when he's on his best thus not killing anyone. You need to look at what type of rider one is and then take all influental parts on his top form into account.
I never said that, here's what I said

My point is that we should base our speculations on what the riders are capable of when they are at their best shape and compare it to how far they are from this shape.
That's a huge difference. Your way of doing it would and will always fail to predict winners like Sastre because you get blinded by the fireworks from the nearest results. A rider can have had 3 bad years and be in the middle of a bad year, but it means nothing on the day if the rider is in top shape and is top motivated. :)
 
Mar 17, 2012
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Menchov is a very calm guy, and so lacks some charisma... People don´t notice him.

Furthermore, there are people who love winning (like Armstrong), who love money (Klöden), and Menchov loves both. He´s extremely professional, similarly to Wiggins, who is the same type of person.

A Tour win would crown Menchov´s great career. IMHO, he´s not part of cycling´s Top10 of all time, even if he wins the Tour, but he is a rider that true cycling fans will still remember in 50 years.

For example, Frank Schleck´s palmares is a lot weaker than Menchov´s. Nevertheless, we read each type of silly gossip about Frank almost every day day of the year.
 
May 3, 2010
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Glad you asked: Zarist' vs New (old) industrial state

SilentAssassin said:
I don't get it. If we look at resumes we can clearly see that Menchov has done more than Wiggins up to date. Not to take away anything from Wiggins because he is an amazing talent, but the media doesn't seem to even acknowledge Menchov at all. All I here is Wiggins this, and Cadel that. What about the people's champion aka the Silent Assassin. Denis Menchov is arguably one of the greatest riders professional cycling has ever seen, and if he wins this year he could go down as the best cyclist of all time.
I mean, Dennis comes from a far away place where a KGB spy and a Natural gas Honcho swap Offices and nobody notices. A land which produced the best novelists, as folks had time for the contemplative affairs of sages. Not quite the same as being from the Turf of Media Giant SKY and CN......Plus, Dennis the menace don't stand a chance with 96.5 km of ITT anyway.... the perfect scenario for the Great Lance if he was 10 years younger, and not the target of ENVY by the Mentes^Mediocres
 
Feb 22, 2011
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I would love Menchov to win, but my wishes don't mean a thing. The idea that a CV trumps form is patently ridiculous - Denis can wave his credentials to the other contenders for as long as he likes but it isn't going to make them cycle slower.

This is still Evans' to lose and he might just do so if BMC aren't capable of matching SKY in terms of riding the slopes just as their leader likes it. If the latter manage the first mountain stages like they did in Romanie and the Dauphine, I might just wonder. Cuddles might too.
 
Oct 23, 2011
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WindLessBreeze said:
Against the likes of Lance, Contador? ...............Wiggo?! Cadel11No way Jose:mad::eek:
Well he comfortably beat Contador in the final long TT in the TDF 2010; last GT he rode seriously and in shape for the GT. Menchov has been one of the best in GT third week long TT's for the last couple of year's. Remember that 2009 Giro where he crashed hard in the final TT and still got 10th, not too far behind Wiggo? You know, the race in which Menchov won the other two TT's and the GC.

There's a reason this guy has been winning GT's and podiuming the TDF and stuff the last couple of year's....
 
May 30, 2009
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The Sheep said:
beat all of them in 2010 :cool:
That's twooooooooo YEARS ago!!! Before most people here were born. Surely grandpa Menchov is out of the game, just look at his performance the last 3 days. Menchov didn't even beat Fabian who hasn't won P-R for two years.

Bah, I suck at sarcasm. :)
 
Aug 16, 2011
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Bavarianrider said:
You guys never heared of the "British inferiority complex"
That's quiet a common phrase.
Not hating or something. iam sure one of the British poster can comment on that. It's just a fact that especially british media tries to overcome the "we have lost our empire" with extrme overhyping of rather useless things. Such as sportsmen.
If Wiggo was Swedish he wouldn get half the afme and no one would think he is the inavoidable Tour winner.
If David Beckham was Swedish, nobody would have ever consiedered him an elite player.
I think you summed the British approach to sport very well. I'm British but spend a lot of time working in Europe and find the British overhype of sportsmen is embarrassing. Everytime Germany knocks England out of the football it makes me smile. I can't wait for the Italian and Spanish teams going to put Sky back in their box in the same manner they do on the football field.

Unfortunately I am in the UK for Tour and then the Olympics, and it appears their are only British cyclists in the Tour and Olympics according to all the TV preamble. I thought with Olympics in UK we would get an international flavour to the sports coverage but sadly no. More and more overhyped Brits.
 
Jul 24, 2009
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What has Menchov done lately?

2011: 7th Giro, 5th Vuelta
2012: Russian TT

Wiggins -
2011:
1st British Road Race
1st Dauphine
2nd Worlds ITT
3rd Paris-Nice
3rd Vuelta

2012:
1st Paris-Nice
1st Tour de Romandie
1st Dauphine

Why did OP make this thread again?
 
patrick767 said:
What has Menchov done lately?

2011: 7th Giro, 5th Vuelta
2012: Russian TT

Wiggins -
2011:
1st British Road Race
1st Dauphine
2nd Worlds ITT
3rd Paris-Nice
3rd Vuelta

2012:
1st Paris-Nice
1st Tour de Romandie
1st Dauphine

Why did OP make this thread again?
The facts speak for themselves, Menchov will finish 7th or lower without risking anything at any stage (typical). I'd love for him to prove me wrong, but I'm afraid he won't. :eek:
 
Jul 24, 2009
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For the record, I rather like Menchov. He's earned his reputation as the silent assassin though. Why complain that the media isn't giving him enough attention? You're supposed to forget he's even there. :D

Wiggins deserves to be much more strongly favored based on recent form though. See above.
 
Mar 19, 2009
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Menchov ?

I can sum him up like this ..... If I turned my head and coughed .... I wouldn't notice a thing .....:D
 
Mar 12, 2009
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Normandy said:
Unfortunately I am in the UK for Tour and then the Olympics, and it appears their are only British cyclists in the Tour and Olympics according to all the TV preamble. I thought with Olympics in UK we would get an international flavour to the sports coverage but sadly no. More and more overhyped Brits.
Cause Britain is the only country in the world that focuses on home interests?

Ok...
 
Mar 26, 2009
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K-0tic said:
A) Menchov is coming of a bad year and has not shown himself during this season.
B) Menchov is Russian, which means he naturally does not attract many "Western" cycling fans who hang around here.
C) Menchov is shy and rarely shows emotion, even in press reports.
D) Menchov is not a rider who is explosive nor very attacking

I think this combination tells the story.
I think you are exactly right, and say that who the "favourites" are is largely driven by the media. I'd be interested in the perspective of a Russian cycling fan that does not understand English.

I would add that the Wiggins-as-favourite hype is also NOT just a product of his stellar run of 1 week races this year, but has building steadily since he got his TdF 4th place in 2009. That certainly has captured the English speaking media's attention more than Menchov's 2nd/3rd place the next year.
 
Jan 22, 2011
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patrick767 said:
What has Menchov done lately?

2011: 7th Giro, 5th Vuelta
2012: Russian TT

Wiggins -
2011:
1st British Road Race
1st Dauphine
2nd Worlds ITT
3rd Paris-Nice
3rd Vuelta

2012:
1st Paris-Nice
1st Tour de Romandie
1st Dauphine

Why did OP make this thread again?
Or we could go a different route and compare their GT results from last couple of years (TDF is a 3-week GT, not a 1-week race, you know)
And what do we see

Wiggans
Giro - 40th
Tour - 24th
Vuelta - 3rd

Menchov
Giro - 7th
Vuelta - 5th
Tour - 3rd


Anyway, this conversation can go on forever (at least for 2 more weeks)
 
Mar 26, 2009
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I was not aware of the British Inferiority Complex, but it sounds like a really interesting hybrid of the Canadian Inferiority Complex and the American Superiority Complex. I won't speak to the ASC here, but as a Canadian I have to admit that our inferiority complex is driven by the fact we get so overshadowed by our American neighbours. We constantly compare our sporting accomplishments to them, but always fall short. This has the effect of really underselling the accomplishments we DO have. Like "yeah, Hesjedal is OK, but it was only the Giro...". The only exception to our inferiority complex is when it relates to hockey, in which case we have a whole new type of complex...
 

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