Why isn't Evans ever on a good team?

[offbyone]

I don't think he is smart enough to target a GT other than the Tour. If he were then he would have Menchov's Vuelta and Giro wins.

IMO the TdF is best suited towards Evans' talents. He has always struggled to hang to with the top climbers. I think in certain respects the giro is more difficult than the TdF especially in regards to some of the climbing. Evans' TT skills will be able to overcome falling off the leaders on some of these climbs. But the giro has quite a few difficult climbing stages and I expect him to lose significant time on several of them especially in that last week. I think this year's Giro is a grand tour that a pure climber could actually win.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

But then, as we discovered with last year's Vuelta, a very tough climbing parcours can also mean that, with more tough stages to come, riders are not so keen to take major risks - what's the use in gaining a minute today if you bonk and lose four minutes tomorrow? The 2008 Giro had some pretty monstrous stages - including the vicious Alpe di Pampeago, a very difficult stage over the Dolomites ending on the Passo Fedaia, the ITT up Kronplatz, and a stage over the Gavia and Mortirolo - but it was still won, despite the doped aggression of the likes of Riccò and Sella - by Contador based on his ITT prowess getting him into a good GC position compared to them. And Marzio Bruseghin - more known as a time triallist than a pure climber - got onto the podium. Last year's Giro had some pretty exciting climbing stages, but it was Menchov's time trialling that proved decisive in terms of the margins (but you can argue convincingly that the difference was made by his ironman defence ruling over di Luca's attacks - seriously impressive. If cycling performances were NFL teams, Menchov's defence on Monte Petrano, Blockhaus and Vesuvio was the Steel Curtain. The original one).

In terms of the typical characteristics of a race, the Tour does suit Evans better. But I think he needs either a race with quite a good balance of TTs vs. mountains and the right sort of mountains for him, or a stupendously hard route that makes it difficult for pure climbers to drop him without risking their performance the next day.

 

[auscyclefan94]

I don't think he is smart enough to target a GT other than the Tour. If he were then he would have Menchov's Vuelta and Giro wins.

yes, well what is he doing this year. if you got 23 seconds behind in 2nd place you would come back the next year?

If Evans wins the Giro then it justifies nothing. It will be despite his team instead of becaues of it. If I play Russian roulette for a milion dollars and happen to win that does not justify the stupidity of playing; it just means I was lucky.

So if he wins the giro, it purely based on luck like a roulette?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

yes, well what is he doing this year. if you got 23 seconds behind in 2nd place you would come back the next year?


So if he wins the giro, it purely based on luck like a roulette?

You're being facetious and you know it. What was meant was that Cadel winning the Giro would not justify moving from Lotto to BMC, because it wasn't that Cadel got any team support that he wouldn't have got at Lotto, he'd have done it on his own, just as he did at Lotto. In which case he may as well have been riding for Footon or Scott-Marcondes César-São José Dos Campos for all the good his teammates did for him, therefore there is no justification in saying that his move was the right decision - it isn't a result that he couldn't have got if he were at Lotto.

 

[blaxland]

You're being facetious and you know it. What was meant was that Cadel winning the Giro would not justify moving from Lotto to BMC, because it wasn't that Cadel got any team support that he wouldn't have got at Lotto, he'd have done it on his own, just as he did at Lotto. In which case he may as well have been riding for Footon or Scott-Marcondes César-São José Dos Campos for all the good his teammates did for him, therefore there is no justification in saying that his move was the right decision - it isn't a result that he couldn't have got if he were at Lotto.

Beg to differ...ones state of mind can be also a very powerfull motive to change teams.....Regaurdless of which is the better team Cadel seems to be Happier riding his bike now and the results are following...I also think you need more than luck to win the Giro...And a possitive state of mind can do wonders...just my thoughts..

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Beg to differ...ones state of mind can be also a very powerfull motive to change teams.....Regaurdless of which is the better team Cadel seems to be Happier riding his bike now and the results are following...I also think you need more than luck to win the Giro...And a possitive state of mind can do wonders...just my thoughts..

Whoa, whoa, whoa there soldier. Firstly, I never stated that these were my views on the subject, I was just correcting acf's (I presume deliberate) mischaracterisation of somebody else's post.

And I was actually standing by their judgement that ACF was being facetious about, that being that if Cadel wins this Giro it's not because of luck. Quite the opposite, since it looks like he'll have less support in the high mountains than he ever had at Lotto. Luck at no point featured into my rationale. The rationale was that because Cadel and his fans were whining about a lack of teammates, and he hasn't any at BMC, his winning would not justify his move to BMC in purely sporting terms because an Evans Giro win would not be because he finally got a good support team, but because he was good enough to do it without a team. And if he was good enough to do it without a team, he could therefore theoretically do it on any team. However, as you say, the psychological aspect then comes into play.

 

[blaxland]

Whoa, whoa, whoa there soldier. Firstly, I never stated that these were my views on the subject, I was just correcting acf's (I presume deliberate) mischaracterisation of somebody else's post.

And I was actually standing by their judgement that ACF was being facetious about, that being that if Cadel wins this Giro it's not because of luck. Quite the opposite, since it looks like he'll have less support in the high mountains than he ever had at Lotto. Luck at no point featured into my rationale. The rationale was that because Cadel and his fans were whining about a lack of teammates, and he hasn't any at BMC, his winning would not justify his move to BMC in purely sporting terms because an Evans Giro win would not be because he finally got a good support team, but because he was good enough to do it without a team. And if he was good enough to do it without a team, he could therefore theoretically do it on any team. However, as you say, the psychological aspect then comes into play.

Sorry Libertine Seguros didnt want to come across like that....I just think to make this judgement about Bmc(being a weaker team than lotto) this early into the giro is a bit premature?I mean what if Cadel wins the Giro?We all no you cant win a GT without a decent Team wright??

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Sorry Libertine Seguros didn't want to come across like that....I just think to make this judgment about Bmc(being a weaker team than lotto) this early into the giro is a bit premature?I mean what if Cadel wins the Giro?We all no you cant win a GT without a decent Team wright??

What is a 'decent' team?? Having someone as your wingman on flat stages is not a luxury, but a necessity.

It will be easy to judge at the end of the Giro - Cadel wins, smart move... Cadel loses, ooops bad move.

One can only judge on how they have performed so far - and it has been said here many times over the last few months that BMC look to be a weak team.

I thought they did very well in the TTT - but on the flat stages he has often looked isolated and this after just 5 stages is poor. He will have some assistance from Santambrogio in the mountains.

But again if he falls short of the win by less than a minute or two it will highlight the lack of depth of the team and his decision to sign for them.

 

[blaxland]

What is a 'decent' team?? Having someone as your wingman on flat stages is not a luxury, but a necessity.

It will be easy to judge at the end of the Giro - Cadel wins, smart move... Cadel loses, ooops bad move.

One can only judge on how they have performed so far - and it has been said here many times over the last few months that BMC look to be a weak team.

I thought they did very well in the TTT - but on the flat stages he has often looked isolated and this after just 5 stages is poor. He will have some assistance from Santambrogio in the mountains.

But again if he falls short of the win by less than a minute or two it will highlight the lack of depth of the team and his decision to sign for them.

agreed so lets make judgement then...........

 

[Dr. Maserati]

agreed so lets make judgement then...........

Ha - hey, I have given it! BMC are weak - the TTT is not that big an issue, but losing 40+ seconds on stage 3 is. I expected BMC to be weak in week3, not week 1!

Aus94s signature during the week was Cadel complaining about falling over Team Sky - why was Cadel following Skys wheels and not a BMC riders, and where was the support to get him back on?

I really do hope he wins the Giro - I believe it is between Cadel and Sastre, CE has the better form but the stages suit Carlos better, so it is going to be close. If Cadel wins it does not mean that he does not have a weak team.

 

[barn yard]

i would really like to know where the rest of the team were on stage 3

 

[BroDeal]

So if he wins the giro, it purely based on luck like a roulette?

The point is that you cannot use the outcome of a decision to justify the decision because you are using information that was not available at the timet he decision was made.

 

[blaxland]

Ha - hey, I have given it! BMC are weak - the TTT is not that big an issue, but losing 40+ seconds on stage 3 is. I expected BMC to be weak in week3, not week 1!

Aus94s signature during the week was Cadel complaining about falling over Team Sky - why was Cadel following Skys wheels and not a BMC riders, and where was the support to get him back on?

I really do hope he wins the Giro - I believe it is between Cadel and Sastre, CE has the better form but the stages suit Carlos better, so it is going to be close. If Cadel wins it does not mean that he does not have a weak team.

I think your right when you say 'where was his teamates during stage 3'but if Cadel does win the Giro and i also think its a two horse race.(Evans v's Sastre)then he did it on his own because his team is weak...Right.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I think your right when you say 'where was his teamates during stage 3'but if Cadel does win the Giro and i also think its a two horse race.(Evans v's Sastre)then he did it on his own because his team is weak...Right.

Noooo..... he is not on his own, he does have a team - they are weak.

If he wins, he has a team that is weak, if he loses he has a team that is weak.

If he loses it will merely highlight his choice on moving to a weak team.

 

[blaxland]

Noooo..... he is not on his own, he does have a team - they are weak.

If he wins, he has a team that is weak, if he loses he has a team that is weak.

If he loses it will merely highlight his choice on moving to a weak team.

Ok...now i get it...Doh.....

 

[brianf7]

Evans has a good strong team but they are not riding the giro.
Big George and other big names are down to support him in the tour .
I would not be suprised if he pulls the plug if he looses to much time and cant win without the team support.
He has guts and he is strong so time will tell.

 

[davis_123]

Well, the Cadel fans are claiming that he's actually earning less at BMC than he was at Lotto... So go figure.

I am a Cadel fan and that may be the case but he wanted out of Lotto at all costs and of the offers that he received BMC were probably offering a hell of a lot more then the rest since their Giro and TDF invites were hanging on getting a big star.

 

[Glockers]

Ha - hey, I have given it! BMC are weak - the TTT is not that big an issue, but losing 40+ seconds on stage 3 is. I expected BMC to be weak in week3, not week 1!

Aus94s signature during the week was Cadel complaining about falling over Team Sky - why was Cadel following Skys wheels and not a BMC riders, and where was the support to get him back on?

I really do hope he wins the Giro - I believe it is between Cadel and Sastre, CE has the better form but the stages suit Carlos better, so it is going to be close. If Cadel wins it does not mean that he does not have a weak team.

I agree with this, team time trial isn't a big deal. They finished mid pack above alot of protour teams. Not an awful result at all. But losing time on a flat normal stage is a problem.

 

[Sasquatch]

Well, the Cadel fans are claiming that he's actually earning less at BMC than he was at Lotto... So go figure.

If that's the case then I question Evans IQ

 

[auscyclefan94]

Very interesting
@chiarapasserini (evans' wife)

"Been reading the Cyclingnews Forum for a while in the last few months.Interesting to see how people think to know everything and be judges

I normally don't read cycling blogs but I was just checking around.. I prefer recipe blogs ))

Thank you guys, but don't worry, I didn't get angry at reading forums..I had a little laugh and thought "...whatever...!

you know what?I was surprised at how many people took themselves so seriously! they should relax a bit.. "

She is right! People on here take things so seriosly and make up some absurd theories on riders. I take it as a bit of fun to discuss whatever is happening in the world of cycling. If your reading this chiara, i am your hubbies biggest fan!

 

[issoisso]

Wow, what a shock

In other words, the same recycled ideas presented by every single other person who has ever been criticised/is close to someone who has been criticised by fans, anytime, anywhere:

- If fans disagree with me, they take themselves too seriously and should relax
- If fans disagree with me they automatically think they know everything.
- If fans disagree with me they automatically know nothing
- If fans disagree with me, they shouldn't judge me/the person I like who is being judged

Basically, it can be summed up as "How dare people have an opinion"

Notice how no one will ever complain about having fans who worship them at every turn and say nothing but good things. If the judgment is good, suddenly people are entitled to judge.

That's not hipocrisy at all



Oh god not this again. I didn't just stirr up a discussion that was dead, did I?

Quick someone change the subject. Uhm.....

Pirates vs. Ninjas. Who would win in a fight? Discuss

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Very interesting
@chiarapasserini (evans' wife)

"Been reading the Cyclingnews Forum for a while in the last few months.Interesting to see how people think to know everything and be judges

I normally don't read cycling blogs but I was just checking around.. I prefer recipe blogs ))

Thank you guys, but don't worry, I didn't get angry at reading forums..I had a little laugh and thought "...whatever...!

you know what?I was surprised at how many people took themselves so seriously! they should relax a bit.. "

She is right! People on here take things so seriosly and make up some absurd theories on riders. I take it as a bit of fun to discuss whatever is happening in the world of cycling. If your reading this chiara, i am your hubbies biggest fan!

Ah..... Earth to Ausfan...... didn't you have a 'I hate Sky" as your signature earlier in the week?

 

[auscyclefan94]

Ah..... Earth to Ausfan...... didn't you have a 'I hate Sky" as your signature earlier in the week?

That was a bit of fun as dim earlier this year had an I hate acf94 in his sig so I did that to tick him off.

Wow, what a shock

In other words, the same recycled ideas presented by every single other person who has ever been criticised/is close to someone who has been criticised by fans, anytime, anywhere:

- If fans disagree with me, they take themselves too seriously and should relax
- If fans disagree with me they automatically think they know everything.
- If fans disagree with me they automatically know nothing
- If fans disagree with me, they shouldn't judge me/the person I like who is being judged

Basically, it can be summed up as "How dare people have an opinion"

Notice how no one will ever complain about having fans who worship them at every turn and say nothing but good things. If the judgment is good, suddenly people are entitled to judge.

It's not that people are having an opinion is a problem. It's the total and utter rubbish of which is thrown around and all the conspiracy theories about riders which are mostly wrong. I am guilty of it too about chucking innuendo around about riders.

 

[Galic Ho]

Ah..... Earth to Ausfan...... didn't you have a 'I hate Sky" as your signature earlier in the week?

He also said he was going to slit Wigans throat. Nah, he was just blowing off steam not being serious.

If you think ACF94 was serious beat my response to his/her (it is in question because of the quote) quote below. Do you remember the weird claim last November?

Very interesting
@chiarapasserini (evans' wife)

Insert long ramble from wife of rider known affectionately as Cuddles here...

She is right! People on here take things so seriosly and make up some absurd theories on riders. I take it as a bit of fun to discuss whatever is happening in the world of cycling. If your reading this chiara, i am your hubbies biggest fan!

You also do know that at one stage you claimed to be Cadel Evans wife. Did this slip your mind? Because if you weren't lying quoting one's self in the third person is really weird. It is also sad.

There it is. Quote Cadel's wife but alas, you've claimed to be the wife at one stage. I can arrange a good psychologist for you if it will help.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

So, the forumites think they know everything and take things too seriously and make up absurd theories.

Did she take care to note that there are Cadel fans on this forum who can't hack any criticism, no matter how valid, about their favourite ride, and gets wound up by taking said criticism - often in jest to get a rise out of said Cadel fans' tantrums - too seriously, and has created some absurd theories of how Evans has been screwed out of every race ever ever ever by some far-reaching conspiracy involving his own teams, Australian cyclists and the entire nation of Spain?