- May 23, 2009
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BroDeal said:
Agreed. Evans should have been bashing down AG2R's door last year. He has limited time left at the top (2-3 seasons tops) and if AG2R can defend yellow for a week at the TdF with Nocentini, just think what they could do with someone like Evans! To top it all off, he would still be undisputed team leader just like BMC...
- Mar 17, 2009
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Inner Peace said:
+100000000000000000000000
My thoughts summed up very nicely here, thanks inner peace and finally someone else understands the Evans-BMC situation like I do. It is a gradual project, he came onboard knowing full well that signing with BMC would be a sidewards step possibly even a backwards step in terms of team strength for the first year BUT and there is always a BUT! BMC unlike Omega-Pharma-Lotto have the same goals and ideas and obviously have sat down thought it out and have a 3 year game plan set out and in progress.
My 2cents anyhow
42x16ss said:
And the budget to pay his salary? Where would they find that?
As a few different team managers have pointed out, from the list of teams' budgets that the UCI has given to managers, it's apparent BMC has an enormous budget.
BroDeal said:
This must be the 'genius' of Tony Rominger, then:
Get Cadel to pay A$1m out-of-pocket to Lotto, to earn less money at BMC, an even shittier team, just when he's reached new heights in his earning potential, with the hope that when he's 35 BMC might be able to field a few decent climbers to try and help him win the Tour.... As I read through this thread this is actually the business plan that was actually thought out.
- Oct 29, 2009
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I was surprised it took Cadel that long to figure out that if he wanted the Tour that bad, a Belgian team with overriding obligations to the sponsor to perform in front of a demanding domestic crowd was not the ideal team for him.
It was a good stepping stone, but you need to keep walking on steps if you want to reach the top at some point.
And you usually walk up, not sideways. BMC came out of a blue sky, to me. It can only mean, in my mind, that he hadn't examined all options to the full. It sounded like a man so convinced that what was really keeping him back was team support, and was so blinded by this idea, that he picked the first opportunity to a team that was gonna be wholly "for him" and promised something half-decent.
It sounded a bit plan-B-ish.
I'm not buying this whole 3-year plan thing. I don't think Cadel has three years. The field is changing, folk he is up against are only getting better, not weaker. He is staring the Fall years of his career in the face. This year is his last real shot at a GT, for me. There are more new names coming through who will want to make their mark, and not enough GTs to go around.
And this year, I am more and more convinced he could have (and can) grabbed one, since he is riding like he has found new fire. But BMC was always gonna make that a smaller chance than he could have had if he'd really pressed for the best team he could have had.
I don't think he did, and I think he didn't, because he is Cadel. I can't figure out if it is fear of failure, buckling under pressure, lack of confidence, too gentle a soul (off the bike), or whatever, but he shuns asserting himself as the one to beat and deal with. I think to Cadel BMC without internal pressure and competition would indeed sound like the more attractive option, over facing internal competition in a stronger team.
And to me, I fear that's where he loses GTs, or at least makes it so much harder for himself.
I can't see him thrive in a team like Liquigas, which has several top dogs who need to settle their own pecking orders. And I can't see him cycle for a quality outfit like Caisse, as he just couldn't do that to ACF, being a Spanish team and all. I think the thought of being on Garmin, Katusha, whatever, would intimidate Cadel, for some reason. It shouldn't, and it is mere armchair speculation, but "serious unease" is the only way I can muster an explaination that gets me from seeing a quality rider like Cadel, in fresh rainbow colours, whose sole mission in life is a TdF win, to him picking a BMC jersey as the preferred option.
Someone said "but he needed to buy himself out and that financial burden would be prohibitive for other teams". I believe that if Cadel is so keen and financially secure as he is, that he would have bought himself out for the right deal, if he hasn't done so already. And a one year's Lottery salary is gonna be peanuts compared to the juicy financial grapes that a TdF win would harvest. And he certainly believes he can, and would have by now (if blah-blah hadn't blah-blah), doesn't he?
I think Cadel is stuck with something in his make-up that has kept him singing second fiddle for so long. I'm pleased to see that he has changed his style and tune recently, and I am still convinced that the Vuelta and increasingly louder criticism finally got on his nerves enough to push him over the edge to start riding like a man who really believes he can win.
I fear that BMC is the type of over the edge that has only cliff face at the other end. It took a hell of a long time before Zoetemelk got the jersey that acknowledged the genuine quality of the rider, and he still needed a bit of rotten luck for Hinault to get it. I would hate to see Cadel end up without a similar accomplishment (and, on a weird parallel, I can't see it happen without something taking Contador out of the picture either). But I don't think he made his own life (much) easier this year.
If he wins the Giro, or Tour, this year, he would have won it in a Lotto tricot too. It would only prove that he has had let his situation get to him, more than it should. Contador faced much worse last year than Cadel has ever been near too. See how he came out of it, and where he is now (again making a situation that was far from ideal in September, October even, taking a totally different turn). Contador has a mind set that makes that happen. Cadel seems less able to do direct focus energy that way. The thing that holds Cadel back. more often than not, is Cadel. In my mind.
Making a move from Lotto. Yeah. To BMC.
It was a good stepping stone, but you need to keep walking on steps if you want to reach the top at some point.
And you usually walk up, not sideways. BMC came out of a blue sky, to me. It can only mean, in my mind, that he hadn't examined all options to the full. It sounded like a man so convinced that what was really keeping him back was team support, and was so blinded by this idea, that he picked the first opportunity to a team that was gonna be wholly "for him" and promised something half-decent.
It sounded a bit plan-B-ish.
I'm not buying this whole 3-year plan thing. I don't think Cadel has three years. The field is changing, folk he is up against are only getting better, not weaker. He is staring the Fall years of his career in the face. This year is his last real shot at a GT, for me. There are more new names coming through who will want to make their mark, and not enough GTs to go around.
And this year, I am more and more convinced he could have (and can) grabbed one, since he is riding like he has found new fire. But BMC was always gonna make that a smaller chance than he could have had if he'd really pressed for the best team he could have had.
I don't think he did, and I think he didn't, because he is Cadel. I can't figure out if it is fear of failure, buckling under pressure, lack of confidence, too gentle a soul (off the bike), or whatever, but he shuns asserting himself as the one to beat and deal with. I think to Cadel BMC without internal pressure and competition would indeed sound like the more attractive option, over facing internal competition in a stronger team.
And to me, I fear that's where he loses GTs, or at least makes it so much harder for himself.
I can't see him thrive in a team like Liquigas, which has several top dogs who need to settle their own pecking orders. And I can't see him cycle for a quality outfit like Caisse, as he just couldn't do that to ACF, being a Spanish team and all. I think the thought of being on Garmin, Katusha, whatever, would intimidate Cadel, for some reason. It shouldn't, and it is mere armchair speculation, but "serious unease" is the only way I can muster an explaination that gets me from seeing a quality rider like Cadel, in fresh rainbow colours, whose sole mission in life is a TdF win, to him picking a BMC jersey as the preferred option.
Someone said "but he needed to buy himself out and that financial burden would be prohibitive for other teams". I believe that if Cadel is so keen and financially secure as he is, that he would have bought himself out for the right deal, if he hasn't done so already. And a one year's Lottery salary is gonna be peanuts compared to the juicy financial grapes that a TdF win would harvest. And he certainly believes he can, and would have by now (if blah-blah hadn't blah-blah), doesn't he?
I think Cadel is stuck with something in his make-up that has kept him singing second fiddle for so long. I'm pleased to see that he has changed his style and tune recently, and I am still convinced that the Vuelta and increasingly louder criticism finally got on his nerves enough to push him over the edge to start riding like a man who really believes he can win.
I fear that BMC is the type of over the edge that has only cliff face at the other end. It took a hell of a long time before Zoetemelk got the jersey that acknowledged the genuine quality of the rider, and he still needed a bit of rotten luck for Hinault to get it. I would hate to see Cadel end up without a similar accomplishment (and, on a weird parallel, I can't see it happen without something taking Contador out of the picture either). But I don't think he made his own life (much) easier this year.
If he wins the Giro, or Tour, this year, he would have won it in a Lotto tricot too. It would only prove that he has had let his situation get to him, more than it should. Contador faced much worse last year than Cadel has ever been near too. See how he came out of it, and where he is now (again making a situation that was far from ideal in September, October even, taking a totally different turn). Contador has a mind set that makes that happen. Cadel seems less able to do direct focus energy that way. The thing that holds Cadel back. more often than not, is Cadel. In my mind.
Making a move from Lotto. Yeah. To BMC.
42x16ss said:
Ag2r did not defend the yellow. The teams allowed them to have the yellow because no one wanted the responsibility.
- Jul 27, 2009
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To the OP.
He has been on good teams, just not at the height of his career. Saeco and T-Mobile were pretty handy. Agreed Lotto were and are pathetic.
It's easy for people in hindsight to say he should have gone to Garmin, I will reserve my decision until after the Giro. If he wins his decision is absolutely justified. He definitely had to leave Lotto, they are simply a joke.
I guess he has taken a risk on this year and banked on the team buying a couple of climbers and a TT weapon to help him.
He has been on good teams, just not at the height of his career. Saeco and T-Mobile were pretty handy. Agreed Lotto were and are pathetic.
It's easy for people in hindsight to say he should have gone to Garmin, I will reserve my decision until after the Giro. If he wins his decision is absolutely justified. He definitely had to leave Lotto, they are simply a joke.
I guess he has taken a risk on this year and banked on the team buying a couple of climbers and a TT weapon to help him.
- Apr 29, 2009
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Cadel is relaxed as ever and just happy getting input into what the team does and having the team act on his input.Dr. Maserati said:
Yeh, they currently aren't the strongest and may never be, partly because they had commitments with George at the ToC and also with Frei and Ballan on the sideline.
This year was never going to be easy but he has committed himself fully to every race that he has been in, and his team-mates have busted their balls to try to help him out.
Like to know when that JV quote is from.
- Mar 13, 2009
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How can Evans 'easily outclimb Basso'?
I do wonder really.
Last years Vuelta, Evans outclimbed Basso only on one stage, the Pandera. And that's a stage where he himself was outclimbed by Sanchez, Mosquera, Valverde and Gesink...
Don't make Evans a miracle climber, he is not.
Ofcourse he can still win, I do believe in that.
But to state that 'EVans can easily outclimb Basso' is a very bold statement
I do wonder really.
Last years Vuelta, Evans outclimbed Basso only on one stage, the Pandera. And that's a stage where he himself was outclimbed by Sanchez, Mosquera, Valverde and Gesink...
Don't make Evans a miracle climber, he is not.
Ofcourse he can still win, I do believe in that.
But to state that 'EVans can easily outclimb Basso' is a very bold statement
Dekker_Tifosi said:
Dude... It's Cadel Evans... CADEL EVANS. The cleanest, meanest, hard climbing SOB who ever walked this green earth. He'll obv. outclimb Basso.....
Where and how you ask???
That, ummmm, really isn't important to predict. Did I mention he's the WORLD CHAMPION!!!Dekker_Tifosi said:
I agree. I still think Evans can win, but it's going to be tough.
What is Evans going to do when Basso launches himself. Then when he's caught, Nibali launches himself? Evans can't outclimb both of them.
- Jan 11, 2010
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I'd rate Evans and Basso higher than Nibali on the tough climbs of the final week. Nibali will first have to stay with them before Liquigas team tactics come into play. People think a 7th at the Tour translates to a podium in the Giro, but you really can't compare the amount of climbing involved.Sasquatch said:
- Oct 29, 2009
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Timmy-loves-Rabo said:
I totally agree with you about BMC's team strength and Cadel's wisdom to move away from OLO. And that ACF seems to have a rather sunny reading of their actual prowess, and peculiar interpretation of that of others, at times. And frequently rubs it in. Can't blame anyone for getting some joy out of tearing down a card house that has a tendency to kick around without thinking it through.
But things between you two are touchy enough as it is, so if you are gonna tango together, it would help if you could restrict knife-twisting to actual arguments made. Plenty of material on both sides left. A monsoon of outlandish claims vs a team/nation that is some-hit-and-a-lot-of-miss recently.
ACF spouts often and frequently about Vino, Valverdi (and rather pathetically against all Spaniards in particular), but has been totally consistent in his response to the emergence of dopers on his team. He hasn't been anywhere near arguing that they should ride, or something. Rather the opposite.
Of course he can argue that not having a lot of people with question marks and exclamation marks above them hasn't made BMC stronger. Seems rather self-evident I'd say.
- Jun 16, 2009
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Moondance you SOB! You finally ****ing get it!Moondance said:Dude... It's Cadel Evans... CADEL EVANS. The cleanest, meanest, hard climbing SOB who ever walked this green earth. He'll obv. outclimb Basso.....
Where and how you ask???
I think you are 90% right.Francois the Postman said:I was surprised it took Cadel that long to figure out that if he wanted the Tour that bad, a Belgian team with overriding obligations to the sponsor to perform in front of a demanding domestic crowd was not the ideal team for him.
It was a good stepping stone, but you need to keep walking on steps if you want to reach the top at some point.
And you usually walk up, not sideways. BMC came out of a blue sky, to me. It can only mean, in my mind, that he hadn't examined all options to the full. It sounded like a man so convinced that what was really keeping him back was team support, and was so blinded by this idea, that he picked the first opportunity to a team that was gonna be wholly "for him" and promised something half-decent.
It sounded a bit plan-B-ish.
I'm not buying this whole 3-year plan thing. I don't think Cadel has three years. The field is changing, folk he is up against are only getting better, not weaker. He is staring the Fall years of his career in the face. This year is his last real shot at a GT, for me. There are more new names coming through who will want to make their mark, and not enough GTs to go around.
And this year, I am more and more convinced he could have (and can) grabbed one, since he is riding like he has found new fire. But BMC was always gonna make that a smaller chance than he could have had if he'd really pressed for the best team he could have had.
I don't think he did, and I think he didn't, because he is Cadel. I can't figure out if it is fear of failure, buckling under pressure, lack of confidence, too gentle a soul (off the bike), or whatever, but he shuns asserting himself as the one to beat and deal with. I think to Cadel BMC without internal pressure and competition would indeed sound like the more attractive option, over facing internal competition in a stronger team.
And to me, I fear that's where he loses GTs, or at least makes it so much harder for himself.
I can't see him thrive in a team like Liquigas, which has several top dogs who need to settle their own pecking orders. And I can't see him cycle for a quality outfit like Caisse, as he just couldn't do that to ACF, being a Spanish team and all. I think the thought of being on Garmin, Katusha, whatever, would intimidate Cadel, for some reason. It shouldn't, and it is mere armchair speculation, but "serious unease" is the only way I can muster an explaination that gets me from seeing a quality rider like Cadel, in fresh rainbow colours, whose sole mission in life is a TdF win, to him picking a BMC jersey as the preferred option.
Someone said "but he needed to buy himself out and that financial burden would be prohibitive for other teams". I believe that if Cadel is so keen and financially secure as he is, that he would have bought himself out for the right deal, if he hasn't done so already. And a one year's Lottery salary is gonna be peanuts compared to the juicy financial grapes that a TdF win would harvest. And he certainly believes he can, and would have by now (if blah-blah hadn't blah-blah), doesn't he?
I think Cadel is stuck with something in his make-up that has kept him singing second fiddle for so long. I'm pleased to see that he has changed his style and tune recently, and I am still convinced that the Vuelta and increasingly louder criticism finally got on his nerves enough to push him over the edge to start riding like a man who really believes he can win.
I fear that BMC is the type of over the edge that has only cliff face at the other end. It took a hell of a long time before Zoetemelk got the jersey that acknowledged the genuine quality of the rider, and he still needed a bit of rotten luck for Hinault to get it. I would hate to see Cadel end up without a similar accomplishment (and, on a weird parallel, I can't see it happen without something taking Contador out of the picture either). But I don't think he made his own life (much) easier this year.
If he wins the Giro, or Tour, this year, he would have won it in a Lotto tricot too. It would only prove that he has had let his situation get to him, more than it should. Contador faced much worse last year than Cadel has ever been near too. See how he came out of it, and where he is now (again making a situation that was far from ideal in September, October even, taking a totally different turn). Contador has a mind set that makes that happen. Cadel seems less able to do direct focus energy that way. The thing that holds Cadel back. more often than not, is Cadel. In my mind.
Making a move from Lotto. Yeah. To BMC.
Timmy-loves-Rabo said:
He never said frei was unlucky but that the circumstances were unlucky for bmc. It hasn't been smooth sailing for him or his team for the giro. If he wins the giro, it will be a monuemental effort. Evans said
- Sep 25, 2009
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id say it was a baseless statement as i dont recall mmm-any examples of 'easily' outclimbing basso.Dekker_Tifosi said:
regarding his team choice, i dont see it as anything unusual. most teams already have/had a gc guy or can't afford him or he would not fit for whatever reason. evans just does not appear a single focus person.
- Mar 10, 2009
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palmerq said:
He had an out clause in his contract with Lotto. There's no secret that he was quite unhappy with Lotto so their continued union was an impossibility.
BMC's offer I'm guessing was like a ray of sunshine on an otherwise stormy day for Evans. I recall shortly after the announcement of his joining BMC that this was a long-term relationship with the understanding that the team would continue to grow and ultimately reach the Pro Tour level. As stated earlier he was looking for peace of mind and a more supportive environment and that is what he apparently has found. I'm sure ACF will enlighten with all the more intimate details.
well, Cadel just followed the $$$$$....
it is sad, because with a top team, this could have been HIS SEASONS!
but maybe he even can win a GT (Giro rather than TdF) with a weak team as well? Floyd did it as well...
In any case, BMC (provided no more doping cases) will be on the market again for next season and will have a powerful team to support Cadel.
Provided he stays with BMC and can keep up his form.
it is sad, because with a top team, this could have been HIS SEASONS!
but maybe he even can win a GT (Giro rather than TdF) with a weak team as well? Floyd did it as well...
In any case, BMC (provided no more doping cases) will be on the market again for next season and will have a powerful team to support Cadel.
Provided he stays with BMC and can keep up his form.
- Aug 5, 2009
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Evan's Team
If Evan's had not lost 47 seconds on stage 3 it would not look so bad. That was bad teamwork leaving him isolated. He is two minutes down on Basso and Nibali, not Contador and Schleck, 90 odd seconds on Vino who has been known to falter on mountain stages sometimes and he is not far from Sastre on GC.
A bit early to be righting off the pre-race favourite with 17 days of racing left. I do agree with others, though that it was a big mistake sending Hincapie and others to the Tour of California but I have a feeling that that race is compulsory for Hincapie and part of his regular racing program.
As we have seen in other grand tours, the third week is vital and Nibali was preparing for the Tour de France not the Giro. I still see Sastre as the big improver later in the race and the biggest theat to Evans. Vino is erratic and tends to lose time sometimes when you don't expect him to. It is shaping up to be an exciting race because evereryone will be attacking Liguigas. Five favourites within two minutes or so with two time trials and plenty of climbing to come. Hardly a foregone conclusion.
If Evan's had not lost 47 seconds on stage 3 it would not look so bad. That was bad teamwork leaving him isolated. He is two minutes down on Basso and Nibali, not Contador and Schleck, 90 odd seconds on Vino who has been known to falter on mountain stages sometimes and he is not far from Sastre on GC.
A bit early to be righting off the pre-race favourite with 17 days of racing left. I do agree with others, though that it was a big mistake sending Hincapie and others to the Tour of California but I have a feeling that that race is compulsory for Hincapie and part of his regular racing program.
As we have seen in other grand tours, the third week is vital and Nibali was preparing for the Tour de France not the Giro. I still see Sastre as the big improver later in the race and the biggest theat to Evans. Vino is erratic and tends to lose time sometimes when you don't expect him to. It is shaping up to be an exciting race because evereryone will be attacking Liguigas. Five favourites within two minutes or so with two time trials and plenty of climbing to come. Hardly a foregone conclusion.
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