Why Lance will dodge this bullet.

[alberto.legstrong]

Sorry bud. My kids are athletes. I point out the big dopers who have been busted in every sport. Kids on bikes will be teased and motorists will be running cyclists off the road if it all comes out in the open.

Like I said drug cheats across the board all sports. If Lance goes down watch how many bike shops close. Watch how many kids turn back to video games and Facebook than cycling and all sports. I take it you live in Siberia or Kazakastan or perhaps in Riccardo Ricos neighborhood?

I am trying to be respectful. At first I was like, 'Well maybe the poster is not in the US so cycling carries greater sway there than it does here?' But I see you are in the US. Motorists are just about 99.9% oblivious to Lance the Cyclist. (As opposed to Lance the Hero.) I think your response is way way off with respect to what will happen if he goes down. And is that some sort of reason to hope he gets off the hook if he is guilty (which he is)? You DO realize he is a doper and has been for years, don't you?

 

[Colm.Murphy]

Will it deter YOU from riding or racing? Will YOU instruct your kids to find a sport other than cycling?

Yes I will race and ride. I will discourage my kids from racing and watching cycling. No money in it and you must cheat to reach the highest levels.
I will encourage my children to go to university or trade school.
Sports are not a way to make a living except for the elite few.

Well, Bravo!

Finally a sensible post.

 

[flicker]

Lance is all we American cyclists know. The bike shop owners and cycling promotors are not smiling now.

 

[Digger]

There's no fear of Lance with fans like this (courtesy of RBR):

"I can't believe what a jerk floyd is. McQuaid made the statement that floyd is trying to implode the sport & I believe him. Clearly floyd doesn't care about any of the repercussions from his accusations. He's trying to drag everyone down with him & he doesn't care who gets hurt. That is the sad part, all the collateral damage. And there's not one physical proof or evidence to back up his claims except his training diaries.

The latest news is that floyd's former team, Bahati racing is in danger of folding due to the withdrawal of sponsors & with the separation of the present management team. This is very sad indeed. Obviously if floyd couldn't do the races that he wanted to do, then everyone else shouldn't be either.

IMO floyd's actions are akin to what you see on the news about some disgruntled, ex-employee going back to his place of work & then shooting everyone in sight & then finally ending their own lives. Why don't these people just shoot themselves in the first place??? If you want to go kill yourself, then go ahead but just leave everyone else alone. Whats the term for this syndrome?? Oh yeah, going Postal! Oh the irony is killing me. If there are any psychologists out there, I would love to hear your views on floyd's mental health.

At one time I was a huge floyd supporter & I would be the first to cheer him to owning up to his mistakes. The problem is that his accusations are so wildly unbelievable that its not even possible to believe him. And yet there is all these speculations of who is going to step forward to collaborate his accusations. Like there is a huge line forming waiting for people to give their depositions.

I guess the biggest problem I have is the $100k bribe to cover lance's doping positive. A measly $100k to silence the entire lab, the IOC & the UCI. When one thinks about it, the number of channels in that information chain that have to be silenced is staggering if not preposterous. The funny thing is that he forgot to give them the cash until they reminded him till 3 yrs later. And yet people still go on about this huge bribery/cover up as if its genuine.

Large cash transactions leave a paper trail but I don't see any paper trail here. If you look at all the other athletes that got busted, its because there was a paper trail be it bank transfers or sms messages that always led authorities back to them."

 

[Colm.Murphy]

Lance is all we American cyclists know. The bike shop owners and cycling promotors are not smiling now.

Think of the millions of cancer activists who will need a new conduit. One that is not build on the foundation of fraud.

"End justifying the means" is the ethical dilemma that I go from an American friend who thinks none of it matters because the "good" he has done far outweighs the bad.

******** that, as even that is not true. Let's wait till the Feds are done examining the Livestrong world. And the contractors who they employ, and who owns those contracting companies.

Don't any of you know how organized crime works? How money laundering works?

 

[Mongol_Waaijer]

Lance is all we American cyclists know. The bike shop owners and cycling promotors are not smiling now.

I sympathise with you to some extent.

But the fact is that if Armstrong was not such an odious sociopath people might be less delighted at this news.

And if people are only going to take up this wonderful resport only due to being inspired by such an obnoxious fraud then i truly believe the sport is better off without them.

Guys who like the sport for the sport, (and not the ego and circus surrounding one particular human being) will always race their bikes.

Prior to Lance America still had its pro riders, and there is enough talent in the espoir ranks over here in Europe (I've raced with em) to show me that the future is healthy.

 

[MarkGreen0]

"I can't believe what a jerk floyd is. McQuaid made the statement that floyd is trying to implode the sport & I believe him. Clearly floyd doesn't care about any of the repercussions from his accusations. He's trying to drag everyone down with him & he doesn't care who gets hurt. That is the sad part, all the collateral damage."

Quite hard to disagree with that statement. I thought Landis' supporters are quite open about their ambition to burn down the sport?

 

[MarkGreen0]

Defrauding the govt never goes so well.

But you don't actually believe all that business about defrauding the government, do you?

 

[flicker]

Think of the millions of cancer activists who will need a new conduit. One that is not build on the foundation of fraud.

"End justifying the means" is the ethical dilemma that I go from an American friend who thinks none of it matters because the "good" he has done far outweighs the bad.

******** that, as even that is not true. Let's wait till the Feds are done examining the Livestrong world. And the contractors who they employ, and who owns those contracting companies.

Don't any of you know how organized crime works? How money laundering works?

In the big picture I see this. Maybe 3 huge corporations are controlling the US Govenment.

Lance is a microcosm of all that. In that Lance is the boss of all cycling.
It is biblical that Floyd the cheat takes down the giant. Biblical is it not?

 

[Colm.Murphy]

I sympathise with you to some extent.

But the fact is that if Armstrong was not such an odious sociopath people might be less delighted at this news.

And if people are only going to take up this wonderful resport only due to being inspired by such an obnoxious fraud then i truly believe the sport is better off without them.

Guys who like the sport for the sport, (and not the ego and circus surrounding one particular human being) will always race their bikes.

Prior to Lance America still had its pro riders, and there is enough talent in the espoir ranks over here in Europe (I've raced with em) to show me that the future is healthy.

I think what is becoming clearer is that if he had the sense of a mafia "Don", then he would have spread enough "success" around to prevent a Landis-esque situation from ever happening.

That his own greed and ego are finally his own undoing, I find to be the biggest surprise, given just how much there is to lose, not just financially but also in public appeal.

Lance's name will be synonymous with fraud.

As flicker points out, this will leave a mark. Though this generation of youth will have a very clear lesson to learn from. Cheating=Lying and lying your whole adult life can land you in prison.

 

[buckwheat]

^This is the exactly the type of opinion-as-fact that I'm talking about. "we" don't "know". We have dozens of posters here who claim to know, but those are just claims.



^and this is exactly the type of he-said, he-said comment that proves nothing. We can have suspicions, but claiming all of this as fact is pure conjecture - and the conjecture on this board is just as biased against the leaders of the sport as conjecture on other boards is biased for it...

And of course, both sides are certain they are right, and ridicule the others.

Joe Papp is here occasionally. Ever see his stuff? Betsy Andreu and Frankie also gave evidence.

You're going to find out very soon that the "he said" stuff of the people who are going to roll like G Hincapie, is evidence, as well as the "she said" stuff of K Armstrong.

Your reasoning is of the type of the three year old caught with fudge all over his face denying he ate the cookie.

 

[RhodriM]

Yes I will race and ride. I will discourage my kids from racing and watching cycling. No money in it and you must cheat to reach the highest levels.
I will encourage my children to go to university or trade school.
Sports are not a way to make a living except for the elite few.

If I had kids I'd rather them take up cycling while doping is very much in the public eye and being scrutinized, rather than a minority of people knowing it goes on while everyone else pretends things are just rosy.

How would you feel if your kids got near the top of what you thought was a clean sport only to find out that it wasn't but no-one would talk about it?

Or they could grow up seeing the disgust people have for dopers because it's in the public domain?

And finally, you'll discourage your kids from cycling because "there's no money in it"? How sad.

Why can't your kids go to Uni as well? Will you push them into sport really thinking they'd be likely to make a living from some sport, any sport?

FFS, kids should do sport to enjoy it and the best will then be given the opportunities to make a living from it. Yeah we all dreamt we'd be winning tour-de-frances and FA cups when we were 7 but that didn't mean not preparing ourselves for the rest of life too.

Sorry, straying from the point; just as I see it if a load of dopers get brought down I'll feel slightly, if not massively, happier about the future of the sport. Who wouldn't?

 

[alberto.legstrong]

There's no fear of Lance with fans like this (courtesy of RBR):

"I can't believe what a jerk floyd is. McQuaid made the statement that floyd is trying to implode the sport & I believe him. Clearly floyd doesn't care about any of the repercussions from his accusations. He's trying to drag everyone down with him & he doesn't care who gets hurt. That is the sad part, all the collateral damage. And there's not one physical proof or evidence to back up his claims except his training diaries.

Oy vey!

As if being subjected directly to some of the drivel isn't bad enough, now you've gone and repeated some from another message board, just in case we haven't reached our daily quota?

uhhhh....'thannnks' ??????

 

[scribe]

Quite hard to disagree with that statement. I thought Landis' supporters are quite open about their ambition to burn down the sport?

You can't blame the desire to destroy that which they do not trust. What gets rebuilt MIGHT just end up looking the same, though.

 

[Colm.Murphy]

In the big picture I see this. Maybe 3 huge corporations are controlling the US Govenment.

Lance is a microcosm of all that. In that Lance is the boss of all cycling.
It is biblical that Floyd the cheat takes down the giant. Biblical is it not?

Agree. It is biblical.

Floyd broke from his lying bonds. He appears humbled in his honesty.

For the religious, visit the seven deadly sins and count which ones seem to match up with LA's character.

 

[eleven]

Defrauding the govt never goes so well.

There is a citation somewhere on the forum looking at the monies the USPS takes, and, yes, they do get Federal funding.

The USPS did not get federal funding in the timeframe being discussed. Like all GSE's (and a wide range of other firms) they have received funding when they were near collapse.

The employment issue could also lead to a Federal claim. An employer may not make breaking the law a condition of employment, ie, dope or you got no job.

US Federal employment law 101 right there, and I am not even a citizen of the US! (please, please, no applause necessary!)

These Feds will take their own, slow, methodical look into all the accounts, sub-accounts, etc to filter out the bad behavior. Think they won't find the bad stuff? Think again.

There are just so many charges that can come form this, such a cross-section of things to find, things to go wrong, things to backfire, it will all go down the drain.

The Feds don't just throw pasta against the wall and see what sticks. Perhaps if you DID live in the US. you would realize this

 

[alberto.legstrong]

I think what is becoming clearer is that if he had the sense of a mafia "Don", then he would have spread enough "success" around to prevent a Landis-esque situation from ever happening.

That his own greed and ego are finally his own undoing, I find to be the biggest surprise, given just how much there is to lose, not just financially but also in public appeal.

Lance's name will be synonymous with fraud.

As flicker points out, this will leave a mark. Though this generation of youth will have a very clear lesson to learn from. Cheating=Lying and lying your whole adult life can land you in prison.

He has GOT to be kicking himself for not spreading more of the largesse his way. I need my money to yield that kind of return!!

My 9 year old baseball all-star/baller/cyclist already knows that Lance=Lies Fraud and Deceit and that he needs to be careful of any of his other icons in sport. Once they get built up to that iconic status in a kid's eyes, they've nowhere to go but down.

Floyd lost his father-in-law, his wife, his daughter, his hip, his dignity, whatever wealth he had. And Lance was too in love with his own reflection in the mirror to see what risk he had left himself exposed to.

Why the hell did he try and come back again?

 

[eleven]

Joe Papp is here occasionally. Ever see his stuff? Betsy Andreu and Frankie also gave evidence.

indeed, they gave evidence. Remind me which part of that "evidence" is admissable today?

You're going to find out very soon that the "he said" stuff of the people who are going to roll like G Hincapie, is evidence, as well as the "she said" stuff of K Armstrong.

If Hincapie choses to speak and supports the allegations that have been made, that will be he-said evidence. Kik can not be compelled to testify and most likely would not do so willingly, if indeed she had any negative information.

Your reasoning is of the type of the three year old caught with fudge all over his face denying he ate the cookie.

You sure bring a nice, civil and educated tone to the discussion, buckwheat. You must be a real charmer at office parties.

 

[MarkGreen0]

Agree. It is biblical.

Floyd broke from his lying bonds. He appears humbled in his honesty.

For the religious, visit the seven deadly sins and count which ones seem to match up with LA's character.

Are you for real? Floyd only started talking because he's years of campaigning to be found innocent did not work, and he knew that he could get people like you to at least think he was a good guy if he threw Armstrong under the bus.

I think you're taking a very naive approach to this.

 

[MarkGreen0]

He has GOT to be kicking himself for not spreading more of the largesse his way. I need my money to yield that kind of return!!

Well it's not good to give into blackmail. Landis can probably make more money from duping people into believing he is the hero of truth telling now that he has decided to burn down pro cycling. As you can see, lots of people are buying into it, despite his own admission that he is not ashamed of doping in the least.

 

[alberto.legstrong]

indeed, they gave evidence. Remind me which part of that "evidence" is admissable today?

If Hincapie choses to speak and supports the allegations that have been made, that will be he-said evidence. Kik can not be compelled to testify and most likely would not do so willingly, if indeed she had any negative information.


You sure bring a nice, civil and educated tone to the discussion, buckwheat. You must be a real charmer at office parties.

I don't think any of us have a very clear idea of where precisely these investigations are all headed at this time. Perhaps, in the fullness of time, we will be able to look back and see exactly where it started out and where it twisted and turned along the route to its eventual conclusion. (A conclusion which could end up in nothing.)

It seems unlikely that this is going to take the same routes with the same targets as prior cases. Maybe that's just me.

there are certain people in message boards who are very reliably rude, unpleasant and just plain over the top. Whether or not I agree with them is beside the point. I just try my best not to respond to them directly.

I am no angel either, but at least I play nice most of the time.

 

[MarkGreen0]

Never forget Landis' victims.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iYW0FHZ4JJOYR-TCk5f8LN5prOGQD9FUPHRG0

 

[alberto.legstrong]

Well it's not good to give into blackmail. Landis can probably make more money from duping people into believing he is the hero of truth telling now that he has decided to burn down pro cycling. As you can see, lots of people are buying into it, despite his own admission that he is not ashamed of doping in the least.

Lance wants to play the role of Tony Soprano but thinks he is above doing any dirty deeds. Welcome to reality, Lance.

 

[alberto.legstrong]

troll alert

 

[alberto.legstrong]

indeed, they gave evidence. Remind me which part of that "evidence" is admissable today?

If Hincapie choses to speak and supports the allegations that have been made, that will be he-said evidence. Kik can not be compelled to testify and most likely would not do so willingly, if indeed she had any negative information.


You sure bring a nice, civil and educated tone to the discussion, buckwheat. You must be a real charmer at office parties.

I don't think any of us have a very clear idea of where precisely these investigations are all headed at this time. Perhaps, in the fullness of time, we will be able to look back and see exactly where it started out and where it twisted and turned along the route to its eventual conclusion. (A conclusion which could end up in nothing.)

It seems unlikely that this is going to take the same routes with the same targets as prior cases. Maybe that's just me.

there are certain people in message boards who are very reliably rude, unpleasant and just plain over the top. Whether or not I agree with them is beside the point. I just try my best not to respond to them directly.

I am no angel either, but at least I play nice most of the time.