Wigans goes there. Cadence!

[python]

i am going to go on record - for the first time - questioning wiggins' performance.


to my knowledge of natural sports physiology, wiggins stayed in top form for this season way too long...much longer than what i consider (on the basis of textbooks and studies i was required to absorb) a clean elite athlete could sustain - about 4 maximum 5 weeks..

here i expressed my opinion.

 

[MacRoadie]

I hope he does try that, would be interesting even if I don't like Wiggo.

He came in 6:32 down (25th place) on Tommeke in the 2009 P-R. Remember this famous photo?

 

[D-Queued]

...

NOWHERE IN ANY OF THE SKY MARGINAL GAINS HAS MENTION BE MADE OF THE TT ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM - WIND TUNNEL TESTING.

That should have been mentioned before now to help explain this increase in performance.

Perhaps we have not see the best of Brad yet, as he can still improve 10% based on wind tunnel and "bits of string stuck to him out training" testing for next year.

Sorry, I call BS.

I've been in the tunnel... with the best guy in the business. Yes, you do learn a few things. But, 10% improvement when you are already exceeding 50 kph? And the other guy - the world champ - doesn't know anything about aerodynamics? Bullsh!t.

Even simple observation of his position from last year to this year, etc., suggests negligible change in fundamental body position.

There are some interesting very minor bits about his position that have possibly been fine-tuned in the tunnel.

The spacers under his arm pads are curious. I would expect these to add some drag, if anything. But, they would not be a speed advantage.

Dave.

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

...he's now made up about 2 minutes on Martin from last year while pedaling at the same cadence.

If I remember correctly, Martin was accused of being seriously doped up for that WC TT performance last year. Mrs John Murphy - once of this parish but now lost to us - said so on another forum, so it must be true.

Anyway, I had my stopwatch out today, and Wiggo was doing 10 revs every 6 or 7 seconds or so, so cadence circa 90-100. Difficult to time longer runs, as the camera view kept changing. Does anyone know what he was doing last year? My recollection is that he had a higher cadence last year, but didn't have my stopwatch out, not knowing the significance of his cadence last year at the time!

Doping issues aside, Wiggo is a joy to watch on a bike. It even looked effortless when he was dying a thousand deaths in the Beijing Madison.

 

[montagna lunga]

Dale, if you're so embittered by the place, why continue coming here to read and post drivel? Try being constructive instead.

you betcha adam, anything you say

 

[thehog]

Richard Moore in his column on Sky Sports website said it's rumoured Wiggins wants to try for Paris-Roubaix before he retires.

Is that the Lane hour record thing?

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

i am going to go on record - for the first time - questioning wiggins' performance.


to my knowledge of natural sports physiology, wiggins stayed in top form for this season way too long...much longer than what i consider (on the basis of textbooks and studies i was required to absorb) a clean elite athlete could sustain - about 4 maximum 5 weeks..

here i expressed my opinion.

Wiggins 2012 is good enough to win TT's and shorter stage races without being in peak form. Or do you think Talansky in Romandie form would've been neck and neck with Wiggo in this TT? Do you think Westra in P-N form would match TdF Wiggins in the mountains? I don't. He's considerably stronger now.

 

[131313]

If I remember correctly, Martin was accused of being seriously doped up for that WC TT performance last year. Mrs John Murphy - once of this parish but now lost to us - said so on another forum, so it must be true.

Anyway, I had my stopwatch out today, and Wiggo was doing 10 revs every 6 or 7 seconds or so, so cadence circa 90-100. Difficult to time longer runs, as the camera view kept changing. Does anyone know what he was doing last year? My recollection is that he had a higher cadence last year, but didn't have my stopwatch out, not knowing the significance of his cadence last year at the time!

Doping issues aside, Wiggo is a joy to watch on a bike. It even looked effortless when he was dying a thousand deaths in the Beijing Madison.

If you forget about Martin and just look at the vast majority of riders who've been consistent for a number of years (Bauer, Larsson, Brajkovic (sp?), McCann, etc), there one's undeniable fact: Wiggins is putting out significantly more power than he was in the past, probably along the order of 8-10% in 2008-2010. There are a lot of variables when comparing this stuff, such as the varying form of other riders and the course, but I feel pretty confident in that number.

That's a massive jump in power. Despite the fact that the US news media like to keep talking about the "unbelievable transformation" of a Chinese swimmer, this sort of increase in power seems to me to be "unbelievable". It's certainly as worthy of discussion as the performance of that swimmer who seems to be the new whipping girl.

I looked at his cadence today vs. the WC's, and honestly it seemed about the same, or 0-5 RPM slower. Counting in 20 second chunks, he was almost always in the range of 100-102 rpm last year last year's WC's. About 4:00 and 4:45 in there's a good stretch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_lsU8CRMBc. Today, he seemed to be in the 98-100 range.

I'm sorry, but I don't believe there's any evidence to suggest a 2 RPM difference accounts for a significant different in power output, for Wiggins or for any human pedaling a bicycle.

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

If you forget about Martin and just look at the vast majority of riders who've been consistent for a number of years (Bauer, Larsson, Brajkovic (sp?), McCann, etc), there one's undeniable fact: Wiggins is putting out significantly more power than he was in the past, probably along the order of 8-10% in 2008-2010. There are a lot of variables when comparing this stuff, such as the varying form of other riders and the course, but I feel pretty confident in that number.

That's a massive jump in power. Despite the fact that the US news media like to keep talking about the "unbelievable transformation" of a Chinese swimmer, this sort of increase in power seems to me to be "unbelievable". It's certainly as worthy of discussion as the performance of that swimmer who seems to be the new whipping girl.

I looked at his cadence today vs. the WC's, and honestly it seemed about the same, or 0-5 RPM slower. Counting in 20 second chunks, he was almost always in the range of 100-102 rpm last year last year's WC's. About 4:00 and 4:45 in there's a good stretch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_lsU8CRMBc. Today, he seemed to be in the 98-100 range.

I'm sorry, but I don't believe there's any evidence to suggest a 2 RPM difference accounts for a significant different in power output, for Wiggins or for any human pedaling a bicycle.

I wouldn't disagree with any of that. Martin (slightly) and Cancellara (clearly) were slower than last year, which confuses the comparison, so your comparisons against the wider field is very helpful.

I highlighted earlier today that the Chinese swimmers are drawing any fire that might be going Wiggo's way. Not that it will be from the media, as - Kimmage aside - they want to believe. Thus he can take the p*ss with what he says and if you feel that way, with what he does.

To be slightly less than serious, the 2 rpm difference to cadence plus the warm down, the heated shorts etc. they all add up...

Once Wiggo is knighted, he'll be untouchable. Former team-mates who want to "do a Landis" will be taken out by MI5 to protect the Establishment.

 

[BroDeal]

If you forget about Martin and just look at the vast majority of riders who've been consistent for a number of years (Bauer, Larsson, Brajkovic (sp?), McCann, etc), there one's undeniable fact: Wiggins is putting out significantly more power than he was in the past, probably along the order of 8-10% in 2008-2010. There are a lot of variables when comparing this stuff, such as the varying form of other riders and the course, but I feel pretty confident in that number.

Pure coincidence, I am sure, but Mick Rogers claims his threshold power is up 7% this year.

 

[D-Queued]

...

Once Wiggo is knighted, he'll be untouchable. Former team-mates who want to "do a Landis" will be taken out by MI5 to protect the Establishment.

OBE's are anything but untouchable.

Dave.

 

[Sigmund]

> 10% W/kg more than Tony Martin, assuming same CdA and conditions.

Care to share your calculations, because I dont get that at all!

 

[The Hitch]

Just said in the BBC interview he's going through to Rio.

Strangely the interview said nothing about doping.

Damn, im interested to see that. What is he going to do to Rio. Tour every year?

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

OBE's are anything but untouchable.

Dave.

Indeed. But David Cameron knows a good bandwagon when he sees one and will recommend the Palace to knight Wiggo in the New Year Honours.

So unless Wiggo gets busted between now and then, he's home free.

 

[JibberJim]

Indeed. But David Cameron knows a good bandwagon when he sees one and will recommend the Palace to knight Wiggo in the New Year Honours.

So unless Wiggo gets busted between now and then, he's home free.

Lester Piggott was a great sporting hero, yet lost his knighthood and wasn't protected at all. So I don't think there's any "establishment" protection. Sporting perhaps.

 

[the big ring]

Sorry, I call BS.

Sorry Dave I forgot the sarcasm emoticon. My bad.

I was being facetious and mentioning something he who must not be named did a lot of, as explanation for improved performance, to preempt anything Lord Wiggins may do in the near future for the same smoke and mirrors reason.

 

[the big ring]

Care to share your calculations, because I dont get that at all!

Assume for the moment that their CdA is the same, and the conditions were the same. To reach the finish in the same time, their total power output must be the same. Wiggins went faster, so his total power output is higher.

Now look at the fact that Wiggins is lighter - almost 10% lighter.

W/kg = power / weight.

 

[buckle]

Once Wiggo is knighted, he'll be untouchable. Former team-mates who want to "do a Landis" will be taken out by MI5 to protect the Establishment.

Who amongst the present team will turn supergrass anyway? Any thoughts?

 

[buckle]

Lester Piggott was a great sporting hero, yet lost his knighthood and wasn't protected at all. So I don't think there's any "establishment" protection. Sporting perhaps.

Lester had a speech impediment, mainly rode for the Irish and rarely gave TV interviews. He was not an attractive figure but was worshipped by the paddys where his daughter worked on TV.

 

[Sigmund]

Assume for the moment that their CdA is the same, and the conditions were the same. To reach the finish in the same time, their total power output must be the same. Wiggins went faster, so his total power output is higher.

Now look at the fact that Wiggins is lighter - almost 10% lighter.

W/kg = power / weight.

Ah, I overlooked the w/kg in your post. I thought you meant absolute Watts, because I only got 3,1% difference in power.

But noway is Martin as aero Wiggins, and give him 2-3 percent Less frontal area and he has 5% more w/kg. That we already knew, given tha Wiggins wins the TdF and Martin doesnt.

 

[the big ring]

Ah, I overlooked the w/kg in your post. I thought you meant absolute Watts, because I only got 3,1% difference in power.

But noway is Martin as aero Wiggins, and give him 2-3 percent Less frontal area and he has 5% more w/kg. That we already knew, given tha Wiggins wins the TdF and Martin doesnt.

Martin is not as aero as Wiggins? How do you figure that? I'm genuinely curious and have been looking for CdA figures. I have some formulae to plug in height and weight, but they result in ridiculously high values of ~ 0.3 for CdA.

 

[BotanyBay]

http://m.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/...ins-olympic-time-trial?cat=sport&type=article

"If I'm unbeaten in long time trials this year, that's because we've put a lot of thought into it. We worked a lot on cadence this winter."

Don't forget the windtunnel and "position"
(although, I must admit, I've never seen a human being who has pedaled more beautifully and smoothly than Wiggans). His position is also better than any person I've seen before him. He's got those two factors absolutely nailed, for sure.

 

[D-Queued]

Sorry Dave I forgot the sarcasm emoticon. My bad.

I was being facetious and mentioning something he who must not be named did a lot of, as explanation for improved performance, to preempt anything Lord Wiggins may do in the near future for the same smoke and mirrors reason.

My bad, then.

Sorry.

Dave.

 

[131313]

Care to share your calculations, because I dont get that at all!

Forget about Martin and compare Wiggins now to 2009/2010 (and even Worlds 2011) Wiggins. If you parse all of the numbers I think it's reasonable to conclude that he's gotten at least 2 minutes faster over this distance. I actually think the difference is greater than than, but let's shoot low.

Assume an average drag of .23 for the entire race, which is pretty low considering the size of Wiggins and the fact that there's a lot of braking/turning moments on the course. Also, assume low wind of 2mph since there was a lot of shelter on the course, and lets just pretend for the sake of simplicity that's there's no accelerating or decelerating and that the race is point-to-point, just to make the maths easier (this will underestimate the actual power values a bit). I'm also going to assume a Crr of .04. That's a touch high, but the course was on pretty bad roads. The end result, with some rounding, is that he's have to go from about 420 watts to about 470 watts. That's almost 12% more power. So, 10% is actually wrong. It's more than that.


I've heard that he's recovering from his alcoholism, he's pedaling faster, sleeping on a special bed and living at altitude. I haven't heard anything about improving his position, which makes sense as he was already the best pursuiter in the world and visibly his position on the bike looks the same. To be honest, I was pretty ambivalent on the whole Wiggins doping thing until I looked more closely at this, but I have to say that an increase of this magnitude seems to strongly suggest doping, IMO.

 

[131313]

But noway is Martin as aero Wiggins, and give him 2-3 percent Less frontal area and he has 5% more w/kg. That we already knew, given tha Wiggins wins the TdF and Martin doesnt.

I agree. Martin is significantly more aerodynamic than Wiggins. He's shorter, he has a more aerodynamic shape on the bike and he does much better in timed events on flat roads versus events which are strictly w/kg (hill climbs). He's also using better equipment. I'm willing to bet the aerodynamic advantage is significant, too, probably on the order of .015 +/- .005 CdA. That low drag is why in relative terms his results are a lot better in TT's than they are in other events.