Wiggins, Clinic respect?

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Oct 4, 2011
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Non Grimpeur said:
What, you mean the few seconds that Nibali and a few others lost at Peyragudes. Evans finished with Wiggins at La Planche des Belles Filles. Nibali finished with Wiggins at the other stage in the Alps. It was hardly a bloodbath.
Really what your suggesting is Wiggins is good enough clean to beat riders who are doped ?

or you dont believe any top riders dope?

either way it doesn't add up i'm afraid.
 
Oct 15, 2012
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Non Grimpeur said:
Roche is not a threat. Quintana is. Sky should be worried about him.
I don't think roche is a threat. But he's well capable of towing quintana away, and Sky suddenly having to pull with no help from Saxo or Movistar. He's a useful second jab, lets put it that way.
 
martinvickers said:
True, but what dio you do if you're down to Froome and porte, and you have both Valverde and Qunitana and Contador and Roche - and suddenly Roche and Quintana shoot up the road - do you burn out Porte knowing both Valverde and Contador, and possibly Purito are lurking?
Roche - shooting up the road?

Riiiiiight.

Is this before or after Sky decimate the entire pelo(e)ton?
 
Mar 17, 2009
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noddy69 said:
Really what your suggesting is Wiggins is good enough clean to beat riders who are doped ?

or you dont believe any top riders dope?

either way it doesn't add up i'm afraid.
In a TT, I believe a clean Wiggins can beat a lot of dopers because most of them are climbers who can't TT.

So you believe that most of last year's TDF top riders were dopers? I'm not saying you are wrong. But tell me what type of average TT speed or mountain performance do you believe is evidence of clean riding?
 
Non Grimpeur said:
The big difference between Wiggins and someone like Boardman (who finished 2nd in Dauphine and Romandie) is that some way or another Wiggo could recover and last three weeks.
No, the difference is that Boardman demonstrated his climbing skills almost right away on the road.
 
Mar 17, 2009
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hrotha said:
No, the difference is that Boardman demonstrated his climbing skills almost right away on the road.
No he didn't. In 1994, his first year as a continental pro at the age of 26, he could not climb with the best riders.

It wasn't until the 1995 Dauphine Libere that Boardman showed he could climb really well. A time when he had pretty much decided on pursuing a road rather than a pure track career at age 26/27.

Wiggins just decided to do the same at 29.
 
Jul 21, 2012
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Non Grimpeur said:
In a TT, I believe a clean Wiggins can beat a lot of dopers because most of them are climbers who can't TT.

So you believe that most of last year's TDF top riders were dopers? I'm not saying you are wrong. But tell me what type of average TT speed or mountain performance do you believe is evidence of clean riding?
Do you think a clean Wiggins could climb with juiced Contador and Armstrong? :rolleyes:
 
Mar 17, 2009
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the sceptic said:
Do you think a clean Wiggins could climb with juiced Contador and Armstrong? :rolleyes:
Are you referring to the 2009 tour and saying that Wiggins must have been doped to stay with them? Not in the third week he couldn't.
 
Jul 21, 2012
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Non Grimpeur said:
Are you referring to the 2009 tour and saying that Wiggins must have been doped to stay with them? Not in the third week he couldn't.
He beat Lance on Verbier. Thats all i need to know.

Also, if he can beat doped opponents in the ITT, why did he never do it before 2012?
 
Non Grimpeur said:
No he didn't. In 1994, his first year as a continental pro at the age of 26, he could not climb with the best riders.

It wasn't until the 1995 Dauphine Libere that Boardman showed he could climb really well. A time when he had pretty much decided on pursuing a road rather than a pure track career at age 26/27.

Wiggins just decided to do the same at 29.
Whoa, it took him a whole season! How does that compare to Wiggins's 8?
 
Non Grimpeur said:
2009 was a bit of a fluke for Wiggins. He decided to lose some weight and climbed with the front group in the Giro for a couple of weeks.
No he didn't.

He lost 30" and was 34th in the San Martino di Castrozza stage which was basically a sprint of the elites. Better than he'd managed before, sure. He was 21st on Alpe di Siusi, and caused David Harmon to have a coronary as he rode past Cunego, which was his crowning glory, but that was a 125km one-climb stage on a tempo climb, and he still lost 1'47". In the 260km Cuneo-Pinerolo stage with Moncenisio, Sestrières and Pra Martino, he was last in the group that came in 12 minutes down, hardly climbing with the front group.

Those were the only mountain stages in the first two weeks, so please point to me where this great climbing potential was shown?

What the Giro showed was that he wasn't a total klutz in the mountains, not that he was some kind of great climbing talent just waiting to be unlocked.
 
Mar 17, 2009
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Libertine Seguros said:
No he didn't.

He lost 30" and was 34th in the San Martino di Castrozza stage which was basically a sprint of the elites. Better than he'd managed before, sure. He was 21st on Alpe di Siusi, and caused David Harmon to have a coronary as he rode past Cunego, which was his crowning glory, but that was a 125km one-climb stage on a tempo climb, and he still lost 1'47". In the 260km Cuneo-Pinerolo stage with Moncenisio, Sestrières and Pra Martino, he was last in the group that came in 12 minutes down, hardly climbing with the front group.

Those were the only mountain stages in the first two weeks, so please point to me where this great climbing potential was shown?

What the Giro showed was that he wasn't a total klutz in the mountains, not that he was some kind of great climbing talent just waiting to be unlocked.
So why couldn't he take some confidence from the Giro climbs to the Tour? History shows that the Giro can help riders build form for the Tour. Lemond in 1989 and 1990 is a good example of this,
 
Non Grimpeur said:
So why couldn't he take some confidence from the Giro climbs to the Tour? History shows that the Giro can help riders build form for the Tour. Lemond in 1989 and 1990 is a good example of this,
I'm not saying he couldn't. He could. I'm saying that your statement that he climbed with the front group for two weeks at the Giro is an exaggeration, because he quite demonstrably didn't.
 
Mar 17, 2009
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Libertine Seguros said:
No he didn't.

He lost 30" and was 34th in the San Martino di Castrozza stage which was basically a sprint of the elites. Better than he'd managed before, sure. He was 21st on Alpe di Siusi, and caused David Harmon to have a coronary as he rode past Cunego, which was his crowning glory, but that was a 125km one-climb stage on a tempo climb, and he still lost 1'47". In the 260km Cuneo-Pinerolo stage with Moncenisio, Sestrières and Pra Martino, he was last in the group that came in 12 minutes down, hardly climbing with the front group.

Those were the only mountain stages in the first two weeks, so please point to me where this great climbing potential was shown?

What the Giro showed was that he wasn't a total klutz in the mountains, not that he was some kind of great climbing talent just waiting to be unlocked.
Show me the evidence that Wiggins is doped? I don't see him blasting away in the mountains climbing with his mouth shut. I know there is good reason to question all cyclists these days but he has the motor and carries less weight.

This is not rocket science. Hinault and Lemond started their seasons overweight and lost the kilos before the Tour.

Has Wiggins lost weight through drugs? I don't know. It is possible and I can't deny that. He has the power though. His depressive personality reminds me of Lemond. I don't think Wiggins could cope with being exposed as a cheat.
 
Mar 17, 2009
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Libertine Seguros said:
I'm not saying he couldn't. He could. I'm saying that your statement that he climbed with the front group for two weeks at the Giro is an exaggeration, because he quite demonstrably didn't.
That's fair enough. i stand corrected here.
 
Apr 21, 2012
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hrotha said:
There's a bit of myth surrounding Wiggins's actual weight anyway.
Do you mean that as LA he's not that light and actually didn't lose 8kg ?
(I remember reading Armstrong was actually lighter in 93 than 99-05)
 
May 26, 2010
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Non Grimpeur said:
And your point is exactly?
Your claim to Wiggins being able to climb with the front group down to weight loss. The guy was skin and bone in 2001!

Wiggins dopes. The weight story is crap.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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Benotti69 said:
Your claim to Wiggins being able to climb with the front group down to weight loss. The guy was skin and bone in 2001!

Wiggins dopes. The weight story is crap.
Yup. He is pulling an Armstrong. It is taking off-season, out of shape weight in a fat year and comparing it to Tour weight in a good year.

Take a look at Wiggums when he was racing for the French teams. Eight kilograms? Give me a break.
 
Mar 25, 2013
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So much for Stephen Roche saying Riis helped improve Nicolas's TT by adding 25 watts to his power output. I have seen nothing of the sort so far. He'll be powerless against Sky.
 
hrotha said:
Whoa, it took him a whole season! How does that compare to Wiggins's 8?
He was pretty good in the '94 Dauphine, although the route may have been a bit weak. In that race he won an elite prologue, elite TT and a hilly road stage (breakaway?), took Wiggins 11 years to tick off those three.
 

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