Wiggins, Clinic respect?

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Aug 13, 2009
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BroDeal said:
The Muppetarium at Bike Radar has figured out why Wiggins is a crap descender. It all comes down to road surface.

One of the things not mentioned about Brits being poor in rain on the Continent, is the possible psychological influence of the road surface. Road surfaces in the UK are generally rougher than those on the Continent, and faced with smoother wet surfaces abroad, the slight sense of security perhaps felt on rougher UK roads is then missing?
oh my, that is genius.

Has Vader returned?
 
Jul 17, 2012
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Brits aren't 'poor in the rain', just Wiggins, and that's because he got the yips in the Giro and hasn't being able to overcome it. Stannard is pretty bloody good in the rain, as his 2010 KBK and 2013 MSR will testify to. Cav is pretty handy too, and always willing to slap on a bit of embrocation in the spring (one of the only riders riding without tights/leg warmers at MSR this year). Froome isn't, but that because he isn't really a Brit and grew up riding in Kenya and SA, so used to far more moderate climes than in Europe.

I realise it may be a difficult concept, but because one person from a country does or doesn't do something well, it doesn't follow that everyone from that country is the same.

That said our road surfaces are ****, and the rougher ones do offer more grip in the wet. But this has nothing to do with Wiggins climbing off during the Worlds. More liked he couldn't be arsed to ride in that weather for that long for Froome.
 
May 26, 2010
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JimmyFingers said:
Brits aren't 'poor in the rain', just Wiggins, and that's because he got the yips in the Giro and hasn't being able to overcome it. Stannard is pretty bloody good in the rain, as his 2010 KBK and 2013 MSR will testify to. Cav is pretty handy too, and always willing to slap on a bit of embrocation in the spring (one of the only riders riding without tights/leg warmers at MSR this year). Froome isn't, but that because he isn't really a Brit and grew up riding in Kenya and SA, so used to far more moderate climes than in Europe.

I realise it may be a difficult concept, but because one person from a country does or doesn't do something well, it doesn't follow that everyone from that country is the same.

That said our road surfaces are ****, and the rougher ones do offer more grip in the wet. But this has nothing to do with Wiggins climbing off during the Worlds. More liked he couldn't be arsed to ride in that weather for that long for Froome.
What about the other riders? Did they find the rain too much?

As for the roads, Spanish roads are not great and Italian roads are terrible in the mountains due to the weather.

Top 5 of the worlds from countries that see less rain that the UK!
 
Jul 17, 2012
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Benotti69 said:
What about the other riders? Did they find the rain too much?

As for the roads, Spanish roads are not great and Italian roads are terrible in the mountains due to the weather.

Top 5 of the worlds from countries that see less rain that the UK!
Top 5 from the traditional powerhouses of European road racing. Lest we forget Britain hasn't much of a legacy in road racing, nor is it part of the consciousness here. Most of the British riders are schooled in track riding first and foremost. Britain's problem is problem is producing good bike riders, but not good racers. You look at some of the continental riders and their racing nous seems bred into them, I think Britain is a long behind producing riders of genuine cunning, Cav aside.

I'm not using the road excuse, I don't think it's applicable. Wiggins' problem is a lack of confidence descending in the wet, and considering I absolutely hate it I can empathise. Other riders were without much form, and not because it was raining.

Poor showing but considering only about a third of the field actually finished not entirely surprising. Froome isn't a one day racer, they shouldn't have bothered talking up his chances (should be riding for Kenya anyway), they should have ridden for Stannard and stayed all back of the bus and waited for a chance for a late break. It was tactically inept, it wasn't the rain.
 
Benotti69 said:
What about the other riders? Did they find the rain too much?

As for the roads, Spanish roads are not great and Italian roads are terrible in the mountains due to the weather.

Top 5 of the worlds from countries that see less rain that the UK!
You must have cycled in different bits of Spain than me!

The roads there are brilliant (compared to the UK, at least)

But as for "rough roads giving better traction"?
Lamest excuse ever, and certainly not my experience
 
It's very surprising to me that Wiggins has, seemingly all of a sudden, developed this issue with descending in the wet. From my experience track riders are some of the best bike handlers out there.

Maybe it's just a case of the yips, it can happen to anyone.

On the other hand I have found consistently that people who are good or better overall athletes are the best descenders. People with a wide range of eye, hand and foot skills across a variety of sports. People who drive well, competitively or otherwise understand lines and body control. They're used to controlling and manipulating their bodies in various ways, and in some cases are used to injury and risk to personal safety. Does Wiggo have a background as even a passable athlete? Would surprise me a bit if he did given his skills.

People who are oxygen processing machines but who lack athletic ability seem to be the good riders who fail at descending. It's fear (primarily) based on lack of skill and therefore confidence.

I also notice it's these rail thin guys who tend to suck. I wonder if they are just pre-disposed not to be athletes because of a lack of muscle and therefore no personal history of excelling in sports? I wonder if it might be a feeling of fragility as well? I don't know.

Contrast guys like Rasmussen, A. Schleck, Froome and Wiggins to a real athlete like LeMond who also was an oxygen processing machine. LeMond had a background in freestyle skiing and was a complete athlete before he became a cyclist.

I look at my local club as well. Lots of guys who are talented on the bike (going uphill) but can't descend to save their lives. Really skinny but no skills.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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interesting theory, red flanders, sounds plausible that there's a link between general athletic skill and control over a bike.

lemond had a history in skiing didn't he?
delgado was a spectacular descender. and he did look like an allround athlete more than say indurain, though the latter wasn't particularly bad at descending either iirc.
contador has a good downhill flow, and indeed looks like an athletic guy allround.

what about a guy like perreiro? he's said to be an excellent football player. was he any good downhill?
 
Netserk said:
:confused:

Rasmussen was a great descender.
?? All I ever saw was horrible bike handling and crashing. I guess I translate bad bike handler into bad descender. I don't actually recall him being particularly good or bad at descending now that you mention it, but I certainly haven't seen anything that would make me think "great descender". The guy couldn't handle a TT bike that's for sure. Horrible bike handler to me = no skills. Anyway Rasmussen wasn't really my main point.
 
Jul 5, 2011
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He's made a stack, got a comfy home and family life, why risk all that now descending with all the mental cases? The hunger is gone.
He should go back to track, make an attempt on the hour record. Dont irritate us any more with the schoolgirl descending, its downright embarrassing to watch.
 
rainman said:
He's made a stack, got a comfy home and family life, why risk all that now descending with all the mental cases? The hunger is gone.
He should go back to track, make an attempt on the hour record. Dont irritate us any more with the schoolgirl descending, its downright embarrassing to watch.
Yeah, you're quite right. Rainman, perfect! :)

The thing about good descenders is that they love it and it comes naturally. You can learn to do it well but you can't learn to WANT that speed on the downhill.
 
rainman said:
He's made a stack, got a comfy home and family life, why risk all that now descending with all the mental cases? The hunger is gone.
Plus he got hit badly by a van in the off-season, with Shane Sutton having an even worse crash. Nothing quite like that to remind you of your own mortality.

He's never been a great descender though.
 
May 26, 2010
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coinneach said:
You must have cycled in different bits of Spain than me!

The roads there are brilliant (compared to the UK, at least)
Not much experience of Spain, but lots of Italy.


coinneach said:
But as for "rough roads giving better traction"?
Lamest excuse ever, and certainly not my experience
Did I claim this?
 
May 26, 2010
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Parker said:
Plus he got hit badly by a van in the off-season, with Shane Sutton having an even worse crash. Nothing quite like that to remind you of your own mortality.

He's never been a great descender though.
Then it is time to retire. Cant take the heat get out of the kitchen.
 
Parker said:
Plus he got hit badly by a van in the off-season, with Shane Sutton having an even worse crash. Nothing quite like that to remind you of your own mortality.
Yes, and as we have seen with other sportsmen and women, the
effects of a concussion can linger for months or even years and
affect the athlete in countless ways.
Some great athletes, like North-American ice-hockey star, Sidney
Crosby have returned to their sport at the same level as before
their concussion, but only after a couple of difficult years.
 
May 26, 2010
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oldcrank said:
Yes, and as we have seen with other sportsmen and women, the
effects of a concussion can linger for months or even years and
affect the athlete in countless ways.
Some great athletes, like North-American ice-hockey star, Sidney
Crosby have returned to their sport at the same level as before
their concussion, but only after a couple of difficult years.
Did Wiggins suffer concussion? Bruised ego maybe, but dont remember the concussion.

"He spent a night in hospital with a broken rib, bruised lung and dislocated finger after the fall."

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/bradley-wiggins-motorist-who-knocked-1707869#ixzz2ggPSz6TR

No mention of concussion.
 
Benotti69 said:
Did Wiggins suffer concussion? Bruised ego maybe, but dont remember the concussion.

"He spent a night in hospital with a broken rib, bruised lung and dislocated finger after the fall."

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/bradley-wiggins-motorist-who-knocked-1707869#ixzz2ggPSz6TR

No mention of concussion.
I think it's pretty clear that someone could get spooked by such an accident, concussion or no.

I think he's thinking deeply about hanging it up, he doesn't seem to want it or need it enough to continue what is really a brutally hard sport requiring tremendous sacrifice.
 

Dr. Maserati

BANNED
Jun 19, 2009
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red_flanders said:
Yeah, you're quite right. Rainman, perfect! :)

The thing about good descenders is that they love it and it comes naturally. You can learn to do it well but you can't learn to WANT that speed on the downhill.
It is all about the head and motivation.

If you remember the stage where Wiggins crashed in the Giro, the 'reputed' great descender Nibali crashed too. But Nibs was back on his bike in a flash while Wiggins sulked.
 
JimmyFingers said:
Top 5 from the traditional powerhouses of European road racing. Lest we forget Britain hasn't much of a legacy in road racing, nor is it part of the consciousness here.
Portugal is a traditional powerhouse of European racing? This was their first medal of any sort in any sort of road racing worlds event.
 
May 26, 2010
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red_flanders said:
I think it's pretty clear that someone could get spooked by such an accident, concussion or no.

I think he's thinking deeply about hanging it up, he doesn't seem to want it or need it enough to continue what is really a brutally hard sport requiring tremendous sacrifice.
who knows what is going on in Wigans head
 
Benotti69 said:
Top 5 of the worlds from countries that see less rain that the UK!
That's a stupid thing to say. You can compare rainfall between small areas like cities, but you can't seriously make comments like this about massive countries that contain a huge number of different ecosystems. There are parts of Spain that in the summer are as dry as wiggo's sense of humour. There are also parts which, as regular wet visits to Angliru by the Vuelta a Espana attest, are just as prone to rainfall.
 
May 26, 2010
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The Hitch said:
That's a stupid thing to say. You can compare rainfall between small areas like cities, but you can't seriously make comments like this about massive countries that contain a huge number of different ecosystems. There are parts of Spain that in the summer are as dry as wiggo's sense of humour. There are also parts which, as regular wet visits to Angliru by the Vuelta a Espana attest, are just as prone to rainfall.
That Mediterranean riders can suffer the bad weather and you take Simon and Adam Yates comments about looking forward to moving to Girona so they dont have to train in ****ty UK weather, it has merit. Racing in early season is where riders learn to race in the bad weather.

Wiggins better off calling it a day and he should lay of the wacky backy if he is going to keep on cycling.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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probably discussed already, but since i'm only reading it now, the part in wiggins biography where he speaks about leinders is just unbelievable.
"he completely shares our thoughts on clean cycling"
"the sport needs guys like Geert Leinders, not just for his experience, but also because of his influence on guys like Swift, Rowe and KEnnaugh, young guys who absolutely want to race clean"
(my translation from the dutch version)
big red flags.
 
Jan 29, 2010
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sniper said:
probably discussed already, but since i'm only reading it now, the part in wiggins biography where he speaks about leinders is just unbelievable.

(my translation from the dutch version)
big red flags.
Is it possible that Leinders actually didn't do any doping/dope monitoring at Sky?

If he was in charge of doping at Sky, why would anyone there bring attention on him by, for example, writing about him in a book.

If he was running a doping program for Wiggins, then Wiggins sure is rubbing our faces in it with statements like that. Maybe Wiggins learned even more from Lance than previously surmised.
 

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