Wiggins, Clinic respect?

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Oct 16, 2010
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WinterRider said:
Is it possible that Leinders actually didn't do any doping/dope monitoring at Sky?

If he was in charge of doping at Sky, why would anyone there bring attention on him by, for example, writing about him in a book.

If he was running a doping program for Wiggins, then Wiggins sure is rubbing our faces in it with statements like that. Maybe Wiggins learned even more from Lance than previously surmised.
dunno really.
if leinders didn't dope wiggins, why is wiggins deliberately lying for him? a statement like "he completely shares our thoughts on clean cycling" is an obvious lie, something wiggins cannot possibly have believed for real.
he could have said something like "i've hardly worked with the guy".
or "we at team sky strongly believe in clean cycling, so when it turned out that leinders had been involved in doping at rabo, it was only logical that we fired his ***".
instead wiggins sets out to defend the guy.
i cannot be sure of course, but i think leinders did play a role in wiggins doping scheme, otherwise i don't see why wiggo should come up with statements like these.
 
If Lienders did not play a part in Wiggins' doping, why did Mr Clean not throw a massive trantrum at him being in the team?

Afterall Wiggins said in 2007 that any team with even remotely dodgy doctors should not be allowed at the Tour.

Why is he perfectly fine with them in 2012 unless there has been a massive change?
 
Jul 13, 2009
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The Hitch said:
There are parts of Spain that in the summer are as dry as wiggo's sense of humour. There are also parts which, as regular wet visits to Angliru by the Vuelta a Espana attest, are just as prone to rainfall.
The North West particularly the Basque Country are wetter than most parts of the UK
 
WinterRider said:
Is it possible that Leinders actually didn't do any doping/dope monitoring at Sky?

If he was in charge of doping at Sky, why would anyone there bring attention on him by, for example, writing about him in a book.

If he was running a doping program for Wiggins, then Wiggins sure is rubbing our faces in it with statements like that. Maybe Wiggins learned even more from Lance than previously surmised.
It is possible, but then his presence becomes a huge red flag that didn't even have to be there. It draws negative attention towards them for no real reason. For a team priding itself on clean cycling and attention to detail, Leinders being there is a big fail. Leinders' name was already public thanks to the Rasmussen court case, although it was fairly low profile compared to, say, Ferrari or Del Moral. But given that his presence, once known, would draw negative attention given his history, it would tie Team Sky to a doping doctor regardless of whether he was doping or not. Which would mean negative PR and little or no reward, which seems like a strange way to go about things.
 

Dr. Maserati

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Jun 19, 2009
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sniper said:
probably discussed already, but since i'm only reading it now, the part in wiggins biography where he speaks about leinders is just unbelievable.

(my translation from the dutch version)
big red flags.
Actually, you missed the bit that raised my eyebrows.

Its vital that people like that are involved now because they have seen how it used to be and they can remind todays riders of how cycling was. He's seen the problems that were there in the past; he never agreed with what was going on, and was one of the sane people who were in the sport at the time. We need guys like Geert Leinders because on top of being a bloody good doctor with a heap of experience, guy like him can play a role, explaining to riders like Ben Swift, Luke Rowe and Peter Kennaugh - young lads who are determined to race clean - what it was like in the past and how lucky they are to be racing now.
Which in essence means that the riders knew about Leinders past - so any claims by Sky that they were naive and didn't know are false.
 
May 26, 2010
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Dr. Maserati said:
Which in essence means that the riders knew about Leinders past - so any claims by Sky that they were naive and didn't know are false.
There's a massive shock.:rolleyes:
 
Jul 21, 2012
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Never seen that before, which one of his biographies is it from?

I dont think any sane person can say what Wiggins said with a straight face and actually believe it, especially after Leinders role in Rabo became fully known.

Too bad no major media picked up on this stuff (or maybe they did and I missed it)
 

Dr. Maserati

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Jun 19, 2009
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the sceptic said:
Never seen that before, which one of his biographies is it from?

I dont think any sane person can say what Wiggins said with a straight face and actually believe it, especially after Leinders role in Rabo became fully known.

Too bad no major media picked up on this stuff (or maybe they did and I missed it)
"Bradley Wiggins, My Time" - page 186.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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poor brailsford. how unaware he was.
David Walsh ‏@DavidWalshST 16 Mär
Interviewed people at Team Sky about controversial appointment of Dr Geert Leinders. Dave Brailsford considered resigning because of mistake
 
Sep 29, 2012
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red_flanders said:
It's very surprising to me that Wiggins has, seemingly all of a sudden, developed this issue with descending in the wet. From my experience track riders are some of the best bike handlers out there.
With respect: Wiggo is a pursuiter. That's not a track rider, it's someone who TTs on a track.

He did do the madison, which is mad, mad, mad, but without having watched him race, it's difficult to tell if he actually rode in amongst it or powered his way around it. Given Cavendish is the sprinter, when it was scrappy for the sprint laps, Brad would have been throwing Cav in then hightailing it to the top of the track.
 
Jul 17, 2012
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While track cyclists have good handling skills, both the bikes and the environment are completely different, and I would suggest riding a madison is extremely different to descending an Italian mountain in the pouring rain.

1 fixed gear and no brakes on perfect surfaces v 33 gears, a freewheel, two brakes and surfaces that change constantly.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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JimmyFingers said:
While track cyclists have good handling skills, both the bikes and the environment are completely different, and I would suggest riding a madison is extremely different to descending an Italian mountain in the pouring rain.

1 fixed gear and no brakes on perfect surfaces v 33 gears, a freewheel, two brakes and surfaces that change constantly.
instead of training in spain and tenerife, a team like sky could perhaps get some marginal gains from actually exploring the stages before riding a giro or tdf.
like a sprinter should now the curves near the finishline, a rider with GT podium aspirations should know the downhill curves of the bigger mountain stages.
In the olden days knowing the stage (the mountains + downhill sloaps) was considered a crucial part of preparation for GT contenders, but i get the impressions that teams nowadays don't care about that much anymore.
Case in point being belkin training in girona in april in preparation to the giro and tdf.
admittedly, I don't really know how sky's training policies are in this respect, but if they are into marginal gains and if they target the giro and tdf, i'd expect them to actually train in france/italy more than in spain.
 
Jul 17, 2012
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Pretty sure he did train in Italy ahead oif the Giro. But this isn't a question of training, it's the yips, a psychological block. G was saying rather than fighting for his line through the corners in the wet at the Worlds he was braking and losing ground. It's a crisis of confidence, a mental block not physical inability.
 
sniper said:
In the olden days knowing the stage (the mountains + downhill sloaps) was considered a crucial part of preparation for GT contenders, but i get the impressions that teams nowadays don't care about that much anymore.
Case in point being belkin training in girona in april in preparation to the giro and tdf.
They still do this a little, but not as much. These days, thanks to Google Streetview, you can 'ride' the course sitting on your turbo trainer at home.
 
May 26, 2010
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Parker said:
They still do this a little, but not as much. These days, thanks to Google Streetview, you can 'ride' the course sitting on your turbo trainer at home.
The days of using races to get up to race speed are long gone. Doping during training is where it is at so riders do less racing.
 
Apr 20, 2012
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Dr. Maserati said:
Actually, you missed the bit that raised my eyebrows.
And you missed another very important part:
he never agreed with what was going on
Uh uh, Geert Leinders was 'let go' by Rabobank because Rabo were cleaning the house. A stance Leinders reportedly couldnt accept.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/telesport/wielersport/20480560/__Rabo-arts_Geert_Leinders_stapt_op__.html

http://www.wielerrevue.nl/2009/07/03/tour-arts-leinders-stapt-op-bij-rabobank/

Good thing Wiggins calls him one of the good guys.
 
JimmyFingers said:
While track cyclists have good handling skills, both the bikes and the environment are completely different, and I would suggest riding a madison is extremely different to descending an Italian mountain in the pouring rain.

1 fixed gear and no brakes on perfect surfaces v 33 gears, a freewheel, two brakes and surfaces that change constantly.
33 gears? :confused:
 
Benotti69 said:
The days of using races to get up to race speed are long gone.
You're right. But not for the reason you think. Using racing as training is flawed as you have little influence as to what effort you have to put in. And also, if you are a big team with lots of good riders, you can ensure that you can try to win in every race you do.
Why do you and others keep harking back to the 'olden days' as though it was some sort of peak of human knowledge? It wasn't in another field.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Parker said:
You're right. But not for the reason you think. Using racing as training is flawed as you have little influence as to what effort you have to put in. And also, if you are a big team with lots of good riders, you can ensure that you can try to win in every race you do.
Why do you and others keep harking back to the 'olden days' as though it was some sort of peak of human knowledge? It wasn't in another field.
i'm not so sure there.
my experience (though admittedly only wrt soccer) is that competition is the best training since it gives you the natural motivation to go full gass, give 100+%, and thus really extend your muscle power and endurance.
training is too boring. very few can actually motivate themselves naturally to go all the way during training.
 
May 8, 2009
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JimmyFingers said:
While track cyclists have good handling skills, both the bikes and the environment are completely different, and I would suggest riding a madison is extremely different to descending an Italian mountain in the pouring rain.

1 fixed gear and no brakes on perfect surfaces v 33 gears, a freewheel, two brakes and surfaces that change constantly.
Is Bradley using a triple?
 
sniper said:
i'm not so sure there.
my experience (though admittedly only wrt soccer) is that competition is the best training since it gives you the natural motivation to go full gass, give 100+%, and thus really extend your muscle power and endurance.
You might do that, but the pros don't. They get their fitness levels up from conditioning sessions, not playing pre-season friendlies in Shanghai.
They may need a few games to get their technical and tactical feel back to top speed but playing 70 minutes in a friendly is going to do sod all for fitness levels.
sniper said:
training is too boring. very few can actually motivate themselves naturally to go all the way during training.
That's one of the primary differences between pro sportsmen and amateurs, though.
 
May 26, 2010
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Parker said:
You might do that, but the pros don't. They get their fitness levels up from conditioning sessions, not playing pre-season friendlies in Shanghai.
They may need a few games to get their technical and tactical feel back to top speed but playing 70 minutes in a friendly is going to do sod all for fitness levels.

That's one of the primary differences between pro sportsmen and amateurs, though.
Wigans no longer a pro :D in his mind anyway.

Training can never replicate racing without PEDS.

Early season racing are not training rides so do not compare to 'friendly' games.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Parker said:
You might do that, but the pros don't. They get their fitness levels up from conditioning sessions, not playing pre-season friendlies in Shanghai.
They may need a few games to get their technical and tactical feel back to top speed but playing 70 minutes in a friendly is going to do sod all for fitness levels.

That's one of the primary differences between pro sportsmen and amateurs, though.
clearly i don't mean the friendlies.
some coaches cannot say often enough that competitive, toplevel matches are the best training, especially also during the season. i'm talking pro-soccer here. and knowing the mentality of many very well paid soccerplayers, it's easy to understand why.

of course there are huge differences between cycling and soccer, but still i think you might be overlooking the obvious reason why there is more training and less racing in present-day cycling.
 

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