Wiggins, Clinic respect?

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Robert5091 said:
If Lee Clayton was Lawton's boss at the Daily Mail, has he not some responsibility for Lawton's actions?
Would depend if Lawton told Clayton he was paying the Whistleblower to change his statement against PCC ethics or just paying a sum for the story as told. From what Wiggins says, Lawton did get two other sources to confirm the whistleblowers and neither say it was Triamcinilone. One story was actually in regards to the whistleblower.
 
Mamil said:
Interviewed by whom? The BBC doesn't count. Who in a position of authority was able to interview him?
UKAD.
I cooperated with UK Anti-Doping in the form of two three-to-four hour interviews with them, as well as something in the region of 200 written answers to various questions they asked throughout the investigation.
Despite proclaiming authoritatively on this subject, you do seem to be spectacularly uninformed. Quelle surprise.
 
https://www.ukad.org.uk/news/article/ukad-summary-of-its-cycling-investigation-into-the-package-delivered-to-tea
UKAD summary of its cycling investigation into the package delivered to Team Sky in June 2011 - 15/11/2017
Throughout the course of its investigation UKAD has interviewed 37 individuals, including current and former employees of British Cycling and Team Sky (riders, medical professionals and other staff), and been provided with and reviewed a voluminous amount of documentation.
 
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macbindle said:
What did you expect? The Spanish Inquisition?....
Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency.... Our *three* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency...and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.... Our *four*...no... *Amongst* our weapons.... Amongst our weaponry...are such elements as fear, surprise.... I'll come in again.
;)
 
Mamil said:
Everything about his conduct surrounding the incident stinks to high heaven - the hiding, the alleged shocking lack of record-keeping, the stolen laptop,the errant scripts, the writing of a book despite being unable to answer some simple questions in person etc. These are not the actions or explanations of an innocent doc working solely on the straight and narrow, or a man determined to defend his good name.
Let's turn to the topic of the book now, shall we? The ghost written book. Do you have any idea just how much of the donkey work the typical ghost is required to do in a ghosted memoir? Do you have any idea how little time the average ghost gets to interview the subject before going off and putting words in the subject's mouth? A couple of interviews over a couple of days is often as much as the typical ghosted memoir is made up of.

Given that the reclusive doctor had to resign before being fired, and so had to forego any chance of a golden parachute he might have hoped for had he been able to linger longer, doesn't cashing in on fleeting fame with a quickly turned around ghosted memoir seem almost logical, in the circumstances?
 
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I certainly didn't. There is rarely any rigour in these nationally-based enquiries. Well there's often not much in the international ones either, so you can hardly expect any different when a nation is self-policing and there's pride and $$$ at stake.
 
Mamil said:
I certainly didn't. There is rarely any rigour in these nationally-based enquiries. Well there's often not much in the international ones either, so you can hardly expect any different when a nation is self-policing and there's pride and $$$ at stake.
And yet there is no pride at stake in the nationally-biased DCMS enquiry by which you set such great store.

Quite a bit of kettle logic going on here.
 
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macbindle said:
The DCMS hearings did not exactly give the impression of a whitewash. They were after Team Sky's guts.
They were political theatre. A bunch of toothless tiger-sharks sniffing blood in the water and trying to look more powerful than they really are.

UKAD may have had next to no power under their own rules to do anything about what was happening in Manchester, but at least they've been scared into line after the Bonar debacle and passed information along the line to the GMC.
 
Craigee said:
and showing up and stropping around the Manchester velodrome straight after getting away with testifying.
Person A has a panic attack on Monday. On Tuesday, is Person A required to stay at home, avoiding work colleagues believing that his mental health crisis has caused them an unacceptable level of embarassment and that he should become an agoraphobic recluse? Or do we live in a more normal world where Person A is actually encouraged to return to work and get on with life?

Are you really the type of person who seeks to stigamtise mental health, Craigee?
 
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fmk_RoI said:
And yet there is no pride at stake in the nationally-biased DCMS enquiry by which you set such great store.

Quite a bit of kettle logic going on here.
As usual you assume too much, dear Fergie. I place no stock in the DCMS committee or any other sports-based/focused regulatory review body. I form my own opinions, be they on Sky or anything else. I don't need any official determination to vindicate them. The DCMS inquiry did some decent work, but it's final report was flawed and flaky.

Same with Freeman's book. Of course it was ghost-written. How much he wrote or input himself is irrelevant (though I note he carefully told the Beebs that "I feel well enough now to write it. There's some important messages I want to get across" - gotta say the right thing). The point is that he saw fit to get involved in the production of a book and cash in on his fleeting fame at the time or shortly after he was supposedly suffering from a major depressive illness and was even suicidal. Make of that what you will - in context with the rest of his actions in the last 2 years I know what I think.
 
fmk_RoI said:
Craigee said:
and showing up and stropping around the Manchester velodrome straight after getting away with testifying.
Person A has a panic attack on Monday. On Tuesday, is Person A required to stay at home, avoiding work colleagues believing that his mental health crisis has caused them an unacceptable level of embarassment and that he should become an agoraphobic recluse? Or do we live in a more normal world where Person A is actually encouraged to return to work and get on with life?

Are you really the type of person who seeks to stigamtise mental health, Craigee?
Oh for petes sakes. Stop playing internet games. and stop putting words in peoples mouths. Anyway it's the doctor who is using mental health to hide behind so take that up with him.

I stand by what I said. You can't expect everyone to believe you can't leave your home to testify but then rock on up at the velodrome. Things should've been taken further against him there but he's abusing the health system. Oh yeah just like team sky abuses the TUE system. They have no scruples and bring down the good name of good Brits. You Brits used to be known for doing the fair thing and having some pride.
 
By whom were we known for that?? Ourselves???

We are known for spawning the largest empire in the modern era, founded on violence and deception, for duplicity, hypocrisy and deceit. For exploitation and subjugation of our colonial captives and a subsequent century of denial.

So Team Sky probably did some naughty things, just like everybody else in recent history? Big deal. My heart bleeds for the poor pure innocents they cheated out of potential victory, people like Nibali from the whiter than white Astana, or Quintana and his almost holy wingman, Valverde.
 
Mamil said:
The point is that he saw fit to get involved in the production of a book and cash in on his fleeting fame at the time or shortly after he was supposedly suffering from a major depressive illness and was even suicidal. Make of that what you will - in context with the rest of his actions in the last 2 years I know what I think.
What I make of that is that your take on mental illness depends very much on sterotypes that bear little or no relation to reality.

Most people who have worked with someone who has committed suicide will tell you they never saw it coming. You don't have to hide away from the world to want to quit it. The same goes with being back at work the day after a panic attack: this is actually what people with mental health problems do.

Whether Freeman really does have mental health problems or whether he's trying to pull the wool over our eyes I don't know. But I do know that stigmatising mental health issues by relying on such stereotypes helps no one: it doesn't help those with genuine mental health issues, and it does not help prove your point.
 
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fmk_RoI said:
What I make of that is that your take on mental illness depends very much on sterotypes that bear little or no relation to reality.

Most people who have worked with someone who has committed suicide will tell you they never saw it coming. You don't have to hide away from the world to want to quit it. The same goes with being back at work the day after a panic attack: this is actually what people with mental health problems do.

Whether Freeman really does have mental health problems or whether he's trying to pull the wool over our eyes I don't know. But I do know that stigmatising mental health issues by relying on such stereotypes helps no one: it doesn't help those with genuine mental health issues, and it does not help prove your point.
More assumptions. I used to be employed in the health sector, working frequently with people with mental health conditions. I'm well aware of the myriad ways in which such conditions can impact upon people and their behaviour. I stereotype nothing.

Maybe Freeman did have the conditions and issues he claims. Of course it's impossible to know whole truth. But if he didn't, or if he was exaggerating them, and I believe based on the available evidence that this is more likely to be the case, then I would consider such behaviour to be absolutely reprehensible, especially coming from a doctor. You talk of me stigmatising mental health issues? The irony. You're looking in the wrong place. To make false use of mental health issues is deeply immoral, and an insult to those who genuinely suffer. Bit like Froome and his ridiculous posing as a champion of asthmatics. IF...
 
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macbindle said:
That's all well and good but making that post hasn't moved you any closer to actually knowing whether Freeman was ill. All you've done is repeat yourself.
I don't understand this post. I'm not trying to make the case here for Freeman's true mental state, nor attempting to seek it out. I already know what I think, and I've no interest in convincing anyone else of this or that position on the subject. My last couple of posts are simply refutations of some simplistic, erroneous assumptions and accusations.

I do kind of agree on the repeating though - there seems to sometimes be a need to spell things out really slowly. This has strayed off topic and from my original contribution to the discussion and I'll not be pursuing this particular avenue any further.
 

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