Wiggins, Clinic respect?

[JimmyFingers]

Well I myself was calling for Wiggins to make a strong statement regarding LA as the current patron and senior rider and he has. Now it depends whether people take it at face value or not. Clearly some aren't...

 

[Joachim]

Did you really expect anything different, Jimmy?

 

[hrotha]

Well I myself was calling for Wiggins to make a strong statement regarding LA as the current patron and senior rider and he has. Now it depends whether people take it at face value or not. Clearly some aren't...

Yes, some of us aren't. With good reason. Which is explained in this thread.

 

[Ninety5rpm]

Seems like Wiggins is following Armstrong's play book... Feigning indignation and doubling down on the lies.

What's the point? STFU!

 

[JimmyFingers]

Yes, some of us aren't. With good reason. Which is explained in this thread.

Believe I don't expect anything different. But we have been calling him to say something like this, so when he says nothing, he gets criticism, and when he does say something he gets criticism.

I do get weary of people re-quoting the same things again and again he has said years before. People change, opinions change, situations change. Just saying

 

[The Hitch]

Well I myself was calling for Wiggins to make a strong statement regarding LA as the current patron and senior rider and he has. Now it depends whether people take it at face value or not. Clearly some aren't...

By the same token i can call.for ricco to call out lance. And if he has a sense of humour he might do it. Won't mean anything. Not now that la has confessed. If before oprah Armstrong was not synonymous with doping he sure as hell is now.

So a cyclist takes a stance against disgraced dopers. Meh. Doesn't take any fortitude or anything.

I do get weary of people re-quoting the same things again and again he has said years before. People change, opinions change, situations change. Just saying

That's the point situations change. Its not like wiggins started doing some research and came.to the conclusion that his early opinions were probably wrong. Instead, wiggins change of opinion just happens to come as the side he threw his lot in lost. That's significant. He's fleeing a sinking ship (or completing the escape started when rd was released)

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Seems like Wiggins is following Armstrong's play book... Feigning indignation and doubling down on the lies.

What's the point? STFU!

I don't understand why anybody would want riders to stfu. Speaking up on core matters should be encouraged. Don't want to see all communication ending in press releases and scripted talks by PR personnel. It would be a dreadful development.

 

[Franklin]

I do get weary of people re-quoting the same things again and again he has said years before. People change, opinions change, situations change. Just saying

So we can say that untill 2009 Wiggins was anti-doping. And from 2009-2011 he sold his soul and loved the biggest doper around while he knew better. Now that that is exposed he is anti-doping again.

Why would we dare to have an issue with this! Joachim, Jimmy, you are absolutely right in this. This isn't relevant at all. It's about doping and Wiggins stance against it, why does that remotely matter in cycling? There is nothing here that should give us any pause in our faith.

We should really stop looking at facts and past statements.

 

[Franklin]

Well I myself was calling for Wiggins to make a strong statement regarding LA as the current patron and senior rider and he has. Now it depends whether people take it at face value or not. Clearly some aren't...

A staunch defence when it mattered most (and he certainly knew better!).
An attack like this right now when it holds no value.

Indeed, how can we take issue with this? How dare we question this blatant opportunism? He's only a fellow traveler!

 

[Libertine Seguros]

That's the point situations change. Its not like wiggins started doing some research and came.to the conclusion that his early opinions were probably wrong. Instead, wiggins change of opinion just happens to come as the side he threw his lot in lost. That's significant. He's fleeing a sinking ship (or completing the escape started when rd was released)

Or worse, if he is telling the truth about his doubts about Armstrong in 2009, the side he threw his lot in was on the side of lies and deceit, and Wiggins knew that, but threw his lot in on that side anyway, which suggests Wiggins either wanted to believe in miracles or was being careerist.

If the former, he's overly idealist given that he himself supposedly suspected him. If the latter, it has worrying implications as it suggests Wiggins was prepared to parrot a party line he knew to be false, and if he wass as disgusted by it in 2009 as he implied in this interview, effectively he's shown a willingness to discard some of his moral rationale to further his career.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Believe I don't expect anything different. But we have been calling him to say something like this, so when he says nothing, he gets criticism, and when he does say something he gets criticism.

I do get weary of people re-quoting the same things again and again he has said years before. People change, opinions change, situations change. Just saying

Jimmy, analyze this, I bolded the important part:

"That was the thing that upset me the most about 2009 and 2010. I thought you lying *******. I can still remember going toe-to-toe with him, watching him and his body language. The man I saw at the top of Verbier in 2009 to the man I saw on the top of Ventoux two weeks later, it wasn't the same bike rider. Watch the videos and see the way the guy was riding. I just don't believe anything that comes out of his mouth anymore," said Wiggins.

He knew back then LA was doping - according to LA he was clean at his comback [yeah right] - and still started the bromance for Lance. How about that for a hypocrite?

For that I cannot take Wiggo's words seriously, nobody should.

 

[Caruut]

Believe I don't expect anything different. But we have been calling him to say something like this, so when he says nothing, he gets criticism, and when he does say something he gets criticism.

I do get weary of people re-quoting the same things again and again he has said years before. People change, opinions change, situations change. Just saying

Many things change - I think the point of this thread is really to try and question exactly what had to change to produce such a huge change in opinion. I think people would be far less suspicious of Wiggins if he explained the wild swings in position, as it is he feels no need to. It's almost as though he doesn't even want people to know about the positions he held in 2007 and then 2009-11 - almost as if this statement is pretty much just PR guff to be gobbled up by a bunch of Brits who suddenly "discovered" road cycling in 2012. As understandable as that is from a commercial point of view, if that is what's been done it shows contempt towards long-time fans and makes me distrust Bradley Wiggins and Sky.

 

[zalacain]

Ahh yes..the quote where he goes on to say Wiggins can only do what he did because he is a true champion.
.

and then he winks and says "You understand?" leaving us in no doubt what was "incredibile"

 

[ebandit]

clinic

and then he winks and says "You understand?" leaving us in no doubt what was "incredibile"

and then he said.................'i read the clinic daily..........for now i'm

just a lurker............in time i will find courage to register'

 

[will10]

So Joachim is Basso? That was unexpected.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Believe I don't expect anything different. But we have been calling him to say something like this, so when he says nothing, he gets criticism, and when he does say something he gets criticism.

I do get weary of people re-quoting the same things again and again he has said years before. People change, opinions change, situations change. Just saying

Who is this 'we'?

And doesn't that also open the possibility that he is saying what people want him to say?
I actually believe thats what Wiggins problem is, he says stuff to placate people - I prefer if he was just honest.(and I think he would be a lot more fun)

 

[D-Queued]

Believe I don't expect anything different. But we have been calling him to say something like this, so when he says nothing, he gets criticism, and when he does say something he gets criticism.

I do get weary of people re-quoting the same things again and again he has said years before. People change, opinions change, situations change. Just saying

Point very well taken.

Please consider:

- He is Sir Wiggins now
- He is the reigning TdF champion, until that changes, and is one of the few that actually exist from the last 15 years
- He is a professional cyclist; not an amateur
- Scrutiny and controversy over doping is part of the territory
- He has ridden with two teams that have strong Anti-doping positions; one of which is under more scrutiny than the other for how real their policies are
- If not a 'public' person, he is, and has been, in the limelight for some time
- He has the money, the responsibility, and almost certainly the access/training to learn/know how to conduct himself in public scrutiny

NOW, let's put all that aside, and CONSIDER

- Some of us expect him to lie about doping, whether about himself or other cyclists. He wouldn't be the first.

His lies as well as his dope smoking behavior are very obvious, and very stupid. Even swimming knows how to ban someone for smoking dope.

That is why he deserves and has drawn closer attention. He has only himself to blame for it.

Dave.

 

[datalore]

Wiggins is highly unpredictable in what he says. and makes no sense most of the time.
You can have a good laugh by reading what he has said on the Armstrong affair over the period.

+1. My impression is that Wiggins is kind of a dumb guy. I think this is probably for the best, because he doesn't seem smart enough to manipulate and bully people the way LA did.

 

[SundayRider]

Wiggins is nervous as he has created a monster now by winning the Tour, its like a boulder that's rolling down a big hill so fast that it can't be stopped. Whatever he does this season he is going to be under deep suspicion, if he does well at the Giro/Tour people will say its because of doping if he flops at one/both of those events people will say its because he's not doping or doping less this year.

 

[Franklin]

Who is this 'we'?

And doesn't that also open the possibility that he is saying what people want him to say?
I actually believe thats what Wiggins problem is, he says stuff to placate people - I prefer if he was just honest.(and I think he would be a lot more fun)

Agreed, I find the set piece interviews and newspaper article's jarring. It's just not Wiggins.

And yeah, I'm open to the notion that the continuing "media-coached interviews" that is what is causing these conflicting statements. But you cannot "erase" nilly willy untill you have a coherent story. They are all his statements.

 

[Franklin]

Wiggins is nervous as he has created a monster now by winning the Tour, its like a boulder that's rolling down a big hill so fast that it can't be stopped. Whatever he does this season he is going to be under deep suspicion, if he does well at the Giro/Tour people will say its because of doping if he flops at one/both of those events people will say its because he's not doping or doping less this year.

In the eye of the public he's clean and rightly so, there is nothing remotely incriminating against him. The most scandalous thing is Leinders, but there is absolutely no proof Leinders injected Brad.

I think the worst that can happen (barring a positive of him/teammate) is being destroyed by the competition, making his win a worthless fluke. The Brittish press might not be gentle

But considering his performance this year he should be able to at least show some of his capabilities and avoid a thorough drubbing.

We will see.

 

[martinvickers]

In the eye of the public he's clean and rightly so, there is nothing remotely incriminating against him. The most scandalous thing is Leinders, but there is absolutely no proof Leinders injected Brad.

I think the worst that can happen (barring a positive of him/teammate) is being destroyed by the competition, making his win a worthless fluke. The Brittish press might not be gentle

But considering his performance this year he should be able to at least show some of his capabilities and avoid a thorough drubbing.

We will see.

I'm not sure even that would diminish him - the Tour/Gold double probably immunises him to the public to all bar doping/sex offences- if he now folds but is still seen as clean, people will just say, ah well, he's 30-odd, and still warm to him. And it's hard to write off an entire mad year as a 'fluke', even if it's never quite matched - see Roche, S, 1987

 

[Franklin]

I'm not sure even that would diminish him - the Tour/Gold double probably immunises him to the public to all bar doping/sex offences- if he now folds but is still seen as clean, people will just say, ah well, he's 30-odd, and still warm to him. And it's hard to write off an entire mad year as a 'fluke', even if it's never quite matched - see Roche, S, 1987

Well.... Roche's year was imho of a different calibre. Not only did he do a grand slam, the wins were absolutely mindblowingly epic. Wigins wins were definitely superbe considering his talents and how it was executed. But I think (opinion^^) his most epic ride was the OS stage race where he tried to let Cav win. I doubt you'll find much experts who will extoll the drama and epicness of last year's TdF, especially compared to the knife fight between Perico and Roche

But yeah, I think you are right, Wiggo will be fine. And if he's clean it's well deserved.

 

[Joachim]

In the eye of the public he's clean and rightly so, there is nothing remotely incriminating against him. The most scandalous thing is Leinders, but there is absolutely no proof Leinders injected Brad.

I think the worst that can happen (barring a positive of him/teammate) is being destroyed by the competition, making his win a worthless fluke. The Brittish press might not be gentle

But considering his performance this year he should be able to at least show some of his capabilities and avoid a thorough drubbing.

We will see.

I don't think Wiggins is at all bothered. About anything really. TdF Champion, Olympic TT champion, fukloads of Gold medals, some other race wins. Pretty impressive palmares for somebody with little natural self-belief.

You are right, there is not a whiff of suspicion around him (sorry, a few anonymous loudmouths on a forum don't count for anything).

That may change, he may be totally full of ***, he may go down in flames. Nothing would surprise me. But, as things go, he looks totally relaxed and open.

 

[Caruut]

I don't think Wiggins is at all bothered. About anything really. TdF Champion, Olympic TT champion, fukloads of Gold medals, some other race wins. Pretty impressive palmares for somebody with little natural self-belief.

You are right, there is not a whiff of suspicion around him (sorry, a few anonymous loudmouths on a forum don't count for anything).

That may change, he may be totally full of ***, he may go down in flames. Nothing would surprise me. But, as things go, he looks totally relaxed and open.

Too funny.