Wiggins Discussion thread.

[PremierAndrew]

Either your definition of a great is really loose, or you're not looking at it objectively.

You get prologues on the road that are effectively individual pursuits. Yes, racing in a velodrome on a curved track is a bit different, but it's not a massively different skill. Wiggins is simply a great time triallist who was also a decent climber for a couple of years and was able to convert that into a TdF win on a super well suited parcours to him.

The fact that he was the first British TdF winner along with his success on the track will mean his legacy will live on, but he really isn't a great of the sport

 

[kwikki]

Well he did break the hour record, break track records, win TdF, win 5 Olympic Golds.

That's a great cyclist. Maybe not a Merckx but then who is.

But I forgot. He's British. So therefore he's just a donkey who got lucky a couple of times.

 

[Richeypen]

Re:

Either your definition of a great is really loose, or you're not looking at it objectively.

You get prologues on the road that are effectively individual pursuits. Yes, racing in a velodrome on a curved track is a bit different, but it's not a massively different skill. Wiggins is simply a great time triallist who was also a decent climber for a couple of years and was able to convert that into a TdF win on a super well suited parcours to him.

The fact that he was the first British TdF winner along with his success on the track will mean his legacy will live on, but he really isn't a great of the sport

The objective way to look at it is through palmares which you are dismissing. Agree to disagree I guess but jeez if someone with his results over the last decade doesnt class as a great I dont know who in the last 20 years does.

 

[Richeypen]

Re:

Well he did break the hour record, break track records, win TdF, win 5 Olympic Golds.

That's a great cyclist. Maybe not a Merckx but then who is.

But I forgot. He's British. So therefore he's just a donkey who got lucky a couple of times.

The British press has a way of overplaying achievements of their successful athletes to such an extent that it is grating and easier to dismiss them as overhyped and overrated. I think it makes people go the otherway and dismiss British athletes even when they deserve to be held up in the highest esteem.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re:

Well he did break the hour record, break track records, win TdF, win 5 Olympic Golds.

That's a great cyclist. Maybe not a Merckx but then who is.

But I forgot. He's British. So therefore he's just a donkey who got lucky a couple of times.

He broke the hour record, a record that's so prestigious in the modern era that apart from Wiggins, the best guys who've attempted it are Dowsett and Dennis

If Wiggins rode for Belgium instead of Britain, he'd have 3 golds, but fortunately for him, he happens to be riding for the most dominant track setup in a while, which has allowed him to convert his pursuiting skill into double the gold medals through the team events

He won the Tour with the strongest guy in the race shackled, and threw a hissy fit when he got dropped, while not even allowing that teammate to pursue the stage when he could probably have chased down Valverde.

Obviously I'm being very harsh there and deliberately not pointing out stuff like he was still the 2nd strongest climber and the best TTist but still, let's not over-play his achievements. There are six or seven active cyclists with better palmares than Wiggins, and half of those are still in the middle of their careers

 

[Gigs_98]

Is it really something that special that Wiggins was good on the road and on the track. I mean, G.Thomas and Kennaugh who are current road riders also have won Olympic gold on the track.
Actually the only thing Wiggins is doing on the track was to TT, which is exactly the same thing he did on the road. At least the fact that someone wins medals on the track and ITT medals in the WC and the Olympics doesn't seem so surprising to me. Same counts for the hour record. The only result which really stands out because he needed to do something else was his tdf win. Without any doubt he is a great of the track sport and combined with his titles on the roads it makes his career look even bigger but for me he definitely isn't an all time great. Winning a road ITT and a track event isn't like winning a 100 meter sprint and a marathon.

 

[samhocking]

Re: Re:

Well he did break the hour record, break track records, win TdF, win 5 Olympic Golds.

That's a great cyclist. Maybe not a Merckx but then who is.

But I forgot. He's British. So therefore he's just a donkey who got lucky a couple of times.

He broke the hour record, a record that's so prestigious in the modern era that apart from Wiggins, the best guys who've attempted it are Dowsett and Dennis

If Wiggins rode for Belgium instead of Britain, he'd have 3 golds, but fortunately for him, he happens to be riding for the most dominant track setup in a while, which has allowed him to convert his pursuiting skill into double the gold medals through the team events

He won the Tour with the strongest guy in the race shackled, and threw a hissy fit when he got dropped, while not even allowing that teammate to pursue the stage when he could probably have chased down Valverde.

Obviously I'm being very harsh there and deliberately not pointing out stuff like he was still the 2nd strongest climber and the best TTist but still, let's not over-play his achievements. There are six or seven active cyclists with better palmares than Wiggins, and half of those are still in the middle of their careers

Wiggins palamares is about range not quantity. There's no disputing the fact, when you are the best in the World at 4km track, Hour record and have also won the Tour and backed it up with a 3rd in Tour, Dauphine, Paris-Nice & Romandie wins with ITT success at Worlds & Olympics along the way, there's nobody in the peloton you can compare him too. Nearest would be riders from a different generation where specialism wasn't what it is today with riders like Martin, Cancellera, Contador etc.

 

[IndianCyclist]

Is it really something that special that Wiggins was good on the road and on the track. I mean, G.Thomas and Kennaugh who are current road riders also have won Olympic gold on the track.
Winning a road ITT and a track event isn't like winning a 100 meter sprint and a marathon.

wining in Track Pursuit & 1 TDF is very close to that

 

[PremierAndrew]

Is it really something that special that Wiggins was good on the road and on the track. I mean, G.Thomas and Kennaugh who are current road riders also have won Olympic gold on the track.
Actually the only thing Wiggins is doing on the track was to TT, which is exactly the same thing he did on the road. At least the fact that someone wins medals on the track and ITT medals in the WC and the Olympics doesn't seem so surprising to me. Same counts for the hour record. The only result which really stands out because he needed to do something else was his tdf win. Without any doubt he is a great of the track sport and combined with his titles on the roads it makes his career look even bigger but for me he definitely isn't an all time great. Winning a road ITT and a track event isn't like winning a 100 meter sprint and a marathon.

Well, Wiggins was capable of winning 4km TTs (where even sprinters would be contenders) and 60km TTs, which is impressive

 

[Gigs_98]

Is it really something that special that Wiggins was good on the road and on the track. I mean, G.Thomas and Kennaugh who are current road riders also have won Olympic gold on the track.
Winning a road ITT and a track event isn't like winning a 100 meter sprint and a marathon.

wining in Track Pursuit & 1 TDF is very close to that

Why? I don't watch track cycling very often so I just don't understand why a pursuit is so different compared to a time trial?

 

[Gigs_98]

Is it really something that special that Wiggins was good on the road and on the track. I mean, G.Thomas and Kennaugh who are current road riders also have won Olympic gold on the track.
Actually the only thing Wiggins is doing on the track was to TT, which is exactly the same thing he did on the road. At least the fact that someone wins medals on the track and ITT medals in the WC and the Olympics doesn't seem so surprising to me. Same counts for the hour record. The only result which really stands out because he needed to do something else was his tdf win. Without any doubt he is a great of the track sport and combined with his titles on the roads it makes his career look even bigger but for me he definitely isn't an all time great. Winning a road ITT and a track event isn't like winning a 100 meter sprint and a marathon.

Well, Wiggins was capable of winning 4km TTs (where even sprinters would be contenders) and 60km TTs, which is impressive

On the other hand: http://www.procyclingstats.com/race.php?id=112940&sub=divstages

I know it's something different, and Wiggins didn't train for the track that year, but personally I always thought Cancellara is at his best in relatively short TT's.

 

[samhocking]

4km is still an endurance discipline, so yes it's not so different than an ITT, although you need the muscle power in arms and body to cope with the start. In fact when Brailsford announced Sky was going to win the tour with Wiggins he described the efforts required to win Tour de France as lots of short pursuit-like efforts uphill. He said when you actually look at the power data of a GC rider, there isn't much difference in the type of efforts, it's just the 10kg of weight a pursuit rider carries screws up the maths for a pursuit rider to win Tour.

 

[TMP402]

Re: Re:

On the road, all his wins were time trials or the overall GC (thanks to his TT skills). That's what I call a one trick pony.

Not true.

Outside of one stage in the Romandie and the British Nats (that no one cares for).

Still not true. But even if it was, your original point has been proven wrong, and you claiming no-one cares about the wins that prove you wrong doesn't stop you from having been proven wrong.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

On the road, all his wins were time trials or the overall GC (thanks to his TT skills). That's what I call a one trick pony.

Not true.

Outside of one stage in the Romandie and the British Nats (that no one cares for).

One trick pony. Contador is more versatile than him.

No doubt that Contador is a much better grand tour rider and a climber but more versatile ?

 

[TMP402]

Is it really something that special that Wiggins was good on the road and on the track. I mean, G.Thomas and Kennaugh who are current road riders also have won Olympic gold on the track.
Winning a road ITT and a track event isn't like winning a 100 meter sprint and a marathon.

wining in Track Pursuit & 1 TDF is very close to that

Why? I don't watch track cycling very often so I just don't understand why a pursuit is so different compared to a time trial?

At the world championships last year, Coquard, Viviani, Gaviria and Max Richeze all rode the team pursuit.

 

[Brullnux]

Is it really something that special that Wiggins was good on the road and on the track. I mean, G.Thomas and Kennaugh who are current road riders also have won Olympic gold on the track.
Winning a road ITT and a track event isn't like winning a 100 meter sprint and a marathon.

wining in Track Pursuit & 1 TDF is very close to that

Why? I don't watch track cycling very often so I just don't understand why a pursuit is so different compared to a time trial?

At the world championships last year, Coquard, Viviani, Gaviria and Max Richeze all rode the team pursuit.

Also of whom are fairly decent in a short 1 or 2km prologue, which is about how much effort someone puts out in a pursuit, taking into account of time in the wheels and drafting. It's like a 2-3k prologue IMO.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Is it really something that special that Wiggins was good on the road and on the track. I mean, G.Thomas and Kennaugh who are current road riders also have won Olympic gold on the track.
Winning a road ITT and a track event isn't like winning a 100 meter sprint and a marathon.

wining in Track Pursuit & 1 TDF is very close to that

Why? I don't watch track cycling very often so I just don't understand why a pursuit is so different compared to a time trial?

At the world championships last year, Coquard, Viviani, Gaviria and Max Richeze all rode the team pursuit.

All of whom would be contenders in a short prologue on the road as well

 

[John Deathly]

Impressive for the range of disciplines he has won in at the highest level: consistent Olympic performer and a Grand Tour winner. Unique in that respect. Big engine, and an ability to bury himself in training.

 

[TMP402]

Right, but not a 60km ITT.

 

[samhocking]

Is it really something that special that Wiggins was good on the road and on the track. I mean, G.Thomas and Kennaugh who are current road riders also have won Olympic gold on the track.
Winning a road ITT and a track event isn't like winning a 100 meter sprint and a marathon.

wining in Track Pursuit & 1 TDF is very close to that

Why? I don't watch track cycling very often so I just don't understand why a pursuit is so different compared to a time trial?

At the world championships last year, Coquard, Viviani, Gaviria and Max Richeze all rode the team pursuit.

Also of whom are fairly decent in a short 1 or 2km prologue, which is about how much effort someone puts out in a pursuit, taking into account of time in the wheels and drafting. It's like a 2-3k prologue IMO.

More like a team timetrial over a prologue distance and ridden to a schedule rather than feel or watts.

 

[El Pistolero]

And tell me this, why would a cyclist who can dominate on the road opt to go for track cycling instead? Who knows how many gold medals Cancellara could have earned on the track, but is it really worth giving up the classics for? The answer is no.

Wiggo got his ass kicked hard on the road in 2013. No wonder he scurried back to track cycling. Yeah, he won the WC TT in 2014, but he was still fresh by then while Martin had ridden a full season. He was tired by the time the WC began.

 

[TMP402]

Re:

And tell me this, why would a cyclist who can dominate on the road opt to go for track cycling instead? Who knows how many gold medals Cancellara could have earned on the track, but is it really worth giving up the classics for? The answer is no.

Wiggo got his *** kicked hard on the road in 2013. No wonder he scurried back to track cycling. Yeah, he won the WC TT in 2014, but he was still fresh by then while Martin had ridden a full season. He was tired by the time the WC began.

:lol:

 

[El Pistolero]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3uHDdi1N1U

I'd go back to beating nobodies on the track as well after this.

 

[dacooley]

Re:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3uHDdi1N1U

I'd go back to beating nobodies on the track as well after this.

bias over rationality... what I noticed is that if you dislike someone, it's a doom.

 

[El Pistolero]

Rationality says that track cycling is of a much lower level than road cycling.

I don't dislike Wiggo, I just think his palmares is incredibly overrated. He had one amazing year, that's it.