Wiggins Discussion thread.

[LaFlorecita]

I trolled Twiggo.

"I miss @albertocontador... @bradwiggins is so boring D:"

 

[rhubroma]

Yes, Froome took 2 seconds out of Wiggins on La Planche des Belles Filles, although Wiggins was marking Evans anyway and letting Froome go for the stage win. I wouldn't say he was put in any difficulty.Stage 11 proved nothing either way. Froome was stronger today and could maybe have taken 10-20 seconds out of Wiggins. Even without the puncture that would leave him a lot of time to find to close the gaps Wiggins has gained in the time trial and prologue, not to mention the minute or so he is likely to gain on saturday.

Your analysis fails because Froome lost a minute and a half for a flat. Had that not occured he'd have been within 35 seconds and everything changes tactically in the mountains, where he would have attacked. But as they are on the same team, he was neutralized. On different teams, everything changes.

 

[Carols]

i trolled twiggo. :d

"i miss @albertocontador... @bradwiggins is so boring d:" :d

rotfl!!!!!!

 

[Richeypen]

Never liked his riding, but man he deserved it.
Concur with posts saying we don't know anything about Froome's ability to sustain an effort.
Nibali has attacked and opened a gap at times, but never sustained it. Who tells me Froome's would have been better at that? There's no evidence.

Time to cut them sideburns though.
Or I'll start calling him Edgar:

The only evidence is of him opening up a gap and then getting brought back by Cobo as he rode tempo.

 

[straydog]

Wiggins was put in difficulty after Froome worked for him and then won the sprint on La Planche des Belles Filles, on stage 11, when Froome was ordered to relent (damn those ear pieces), as well as today. Wiggins couldn't follow Froome on that last climb and, unfortunately, being noticeably and definitively stronger doesn't outweigh the corporate interests to have Wiggins in yellow.

You have probably put up the most spurious argument on this thread.

If it's spurious...answer it...how much would he have put into Wiggins today if he had been allowed to go?

And last week?


genuinely interested in what you think.

 

[straydog]

I trolled Twiggo.

"I miss @albertocontador... @bradwiggins is so boring D:"

Wow you must be so proud. You anonymously trolled an elite athlete, because you have a crush on someone serving a doping ban. You really have no sense of irony do you?

 

[rhubroma]

If it's spurious...answer it...how much would he have put into Wiggins today if he had been allowed to go?

And last week?


genuinely interested in what you think.

Last week a minute, today nearly so.

 

[straydog]

Last week a minute, today nearly so.

nearly a minute today? So he would not only have caught Valverde, but he would have put 30 seconds into him as well? In the space of the last two and half km?

Rhub, did you actually watch it or just follow the feed?

And last week? a minute too? After having had to work to catch Nibali you think he was then going to be able to pull out a further minute on someone else no one else in the peloton has been able to drop? Again over a few kms at the end of 200km stage? An acceleration does not mean you can drop someone. Witness Nibali, countless times.

Me spurious?

Ok so lets say he could have done what you have said, which he couldn't, but let's pretend. And let's forget the puncture too, cos you know, bike racing isn't fair. So let's say he has almost two minutes, minus 35 secs from the first TT, minus 16 seconds from the prologue. So what, he's still got a minute? Well, lets see how much of that is left after the second TT.

 

[stampedingviking]

I trolled Twiggo.

"I miss @albertocontador... @bradwiggins is so boring D:"

How childish, but unfortunately not surprising for one who idolises a cheat.

 

[LesDiablesRouges]

What's interesting is that all of Wiggins stage wins this year except one have come on ITTs.

The other was a flat stage. He hasn't won a single mountain stage.

 

[straydog]

What's interesting is that all of Wiggins stage wins this year except one have come on ITTs.

The other was a flat stage. He hasn't won a single mountain stage.

Sorry lost me, why is that interesting to you?

 

[PCutter]

Chapeau to Wiggo. I really thought he would get broken on the steep ramps in the mountains in the last week, but he's answered everything thrown at him and will take the win in Paris by minutes.

His team may have made the race a little boring by riding a strong pace but that's not their fault, so chapeau to Wiggins and his team. If only he wasn't English. Oh well, if I've grown to accept the English cricket team is better than Australia's so this should be easy in comparison.

 

[Soloist]

Thought the ITV4 documentary on Wiggins was excellent, and gave a number of insights into why his career has gone the way it has. The FDJ DS Marc Madiot was in ProCycling this month lamenting Sky's approach to the sport, suggesting it takes the passion out of it. Voeckler said something similar the issue before in terms of the 'anglos' and how they trained.

But maybe that's what other teams will have to do now. In 2010 Sky took a rider with a few motivational issues and trained him into the ground, working not only on his strengths (I think it was Shane Sutton that said any world class track / pursuit rider would translate easily to road TTs) but also on his weaknesses, Sutton using the analogy of a top flight footballer yet still with a weaker foot. What was said time and again was that BW lacked belief in himself, as well as the focus and motivation to train. Sutton added that if BW had ridden track with the mental strength he has now, he'd have set unbeatable world records.

I'm not saying the Sky approach makes for great racing for spectators, but it is effective. The onus is now on the other teams to emulate them. What was it I heard yesterday? At Romandie only Sky and one of the Saur Sojasun riders (Coppel iirc) were doing warmdowns. Now it's half the peloton.

I agree that it's effective, and lots of credit to Wiggins, Froome, and Sky for finding a winning formula, but this is one of the most BORING TDF's in recent memory. Wiggins has no panache. He rides so carefully it looks like he's afraid of breaking something if he lifts the pace. Comparisons to Postal I think are off the mark. Armstrong (doping aside, different thread) would at least jump on the last climb and destroy everyone left and win mountain stages. Wiggins is more reminiscent of Indurain - unassailable on the TT's and good enough in the mountains. Again, good formula, bad for watching. The best attacks from Evans and Nibali got them all of 50 meters up the road before they were reeled in. No drama.

 

[Kangert]

I think people should look at Wiggins as an inspiration for the future of a clean sport in search of its soul. He is the yellow jersey the Tour deserves. I am very happy to see him winning this race because he's been there the whole season, riding from February until July to accomplish this goal.

 

[webvan]

Absolutely, this does cycling proud, no clowning around finishing 15 minutes down for "preparation", like Nibali at the CD, that's just not right when you're a champ. As for the comment about LA destroying the field im the ITTs AND the climbs...well that's why people who've been following cycling for ages never believed in him, with good reason as others are now finding out, in any case it wasnt "exciting" at all, a travesty AND a bore at the end of the day.

The coming years should be great, Wiggo, Froome, TJVG, Rolland, Pinot and maybe Schleckett if he can get his act together and Bertie if he can "evolve" and come back.

 

[afpm90]

Absolutely, this does cycling proud, no clowning around finishing 15 minutes down for "preparation", like Nibali at the CD, that's just not right when you're a champ. As for the comment about LA destroying the field im the ITTs AND the climbs...well that's why people who've been following cycling for ages never believed in him, with good reason as others are now finding out, in any case it wasnt "exciting" at all, a travesty AND a bore at the end of the day.

The coming years should be great, Wiggo, Froome, TJVG, Rolland, Pinot and maybe Schleckett if he can get his act together and Bertie if he can "evolve" and come back.

Are you talking about the guy who won Tirreno-Adriatico, was second at LBL and third at MSR?

 

[webvan]

I'm talking about the guy who used a great race like the Dauphiné for "preparation" and who got dropped like a stone at the foot of Joux Plane, wanna bet he doesn't make that same mistake again?

 

[cineteq]

I'm talking about the guy who used a great race like the Dauphiné for "preparation" and who got dropped like a stone at the foot of Joux Plane, wanna bet he doesn't make that same mistake again?

I must assume you don't know (until now) what the Dauphiné is used for. Should we give you a pass?

 

[webvan]

Obviously your fanboy status disqualifies you of discussing your idol getting dropped like a stone on Joux Plane six weeks ago, but again, I'm sure he won't make that same mistake again the next time he tries to win the TDF.

 

[argyllflyer]

I agree that it's effective, and lots of credit to Wiggins, Froome, and Sky for finding a winning formula, but this is one of the most BORING TDF's in recent memory. Wiggins has no panache. He rides so carefully it looks like he's afraid of breaking something if he lifts the pace. Comparisons to Postal I think are off the mark. Armstrong (doping aside, different thread) would at least jump on the last climb and destroy everyone left and win mountain stages. Wiggins is more reminiscent of Indurain - unassailable on the TT's and good enough in the mountains. Again, good formula, bad for watching. The best attacks from Evans and Nibali got them all of 50 meters up the road before they were reeled in. No drama.

And Indurain was his childhood hero so maybe that's what has influenced his riding style. Something else BW said in the documentary struck me. I'm paraphrasing slightly but he said the way to win the tour was about not having any bad days and not necessarily having excellent days, but about having a good day every day.

He rides consistently on all road stages and makes it count where he can (TT). Like I said, not necessarily great to watch but fortunately it's not all about the GC. I always love watching the Europcar mavericks while Sagan's prowess in flat and rolling stages has been the logical extension of a strong classics season and has proved he can do it in among the big boys after a few looked down at his California and Suisse exploits. The KOM competition the last few days has been interesting when it finally settled down into a clear race between a handful of riders.

 

[rhubroma]

nearly a minute today? So he would not only have caught Valverde, but he would have put 30 seconds into him as well? In the space of the last two and half km?

Rhub, did you actually watch it or just follow the feed?

And last week? a minute too? After having had to work to catch Nibali you think he was then going to be able to pull out a further minute on someone else no one else in the peloton has been able to drop? Again over a few kms at the end of 200km stage? An acceleration does not mean you can drop someone. Witness Nibali, countless times.

Me spurious?

Ok so lets say he could have done what you have said, which he couldn't, but let's pretend. And let's forget the puncture too, cos you know, bike racing isn't fair. So let's say he has almost two minutes, minus 35 secs from the first TT, minus 16 seconds from the prologue. So what, he's still got a minute? Well, lets see how much of that is left after the second TT.

What did he have, 3 k? I said nearly a minute. How does 45 seconds sound to you?

And if he were on a different team he could have ridden for himself to do more damage to Wiggo. I say Froome was 2-3 minutes faster than Wiggins in the mountains at this Tour under ideal circumstances.

Your ridiculous question about me having actually watched it or just following the feed demonstrates that, while you have done both, you have at once understood nothing. I can't believe you claim to be knowledgeable about the sport.

In fact Froome had to chase down Nibali and still had the legs to put Wiggins in the red. So how does it work, then, if he didn't have to chase the Italian? What situation does Wiggins find himself in? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know in deep trouble.

Second, he set pace the whole time for Wiggins on the first gradient finish, responded to Cadel's attack, and still broke the elastic to win the stage. How do we put things if he had ridden completely for himself that day?

Thirdly, the flat was highly compromising. Without that bad luck, he's about 35 seconds down on Wiggins today, not 2+ minutes. Now I said imagine if he were allowed to ride his own race in the mountains too. Where does that place him going into the last time trial, I posited? In yellow. Because he's been the strongest, but only had his wings clipped for all the business reasoning I mentioned.

And you have the gall to try and give lessons. Please. How can you exist in such semi-darkness? It's like living in a museum!

 

[Richeypen]

What's interesting is that all of Wiggins stage wins this year except one have come on ITTs.

The other was a flat stage. He hasn't won a single mountain stage.

So you think that a sprint featuring Wiggins, Tiralongo & Westra in the top 3 happened on a flat stage do you? Dont really see your point either way though.

 

[webvan]

It seems he's nostalgic of the good old days when Pharmstrong could trash his competition everywhere, ITTs or MTFs...the harm he's done is...

As for rhubard, you've really got some nerve accusing an articulate poster of living in "semi-darckness" when all you have to show for yourself is a simplistic fantasy world based on two occasions where Froome had more kick than his leader, with nothing to prove it could have been sustained (as has been pointed out to you several times already, the only time he took off in a GT so far, he could not sustain it) and obviously you haven't even started asking yourself where Froome would be today if he wasn't riding for Sky? Right, nowhere most likely. He's got 5+ years to prove he's got the goods, that should be enough.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Wow you must be so proud. You anonymously trolled an elite athlete, because you have a crush on someone serving a doping ban. You really have no sense of irony do you?

Don't you understand Wiggins was whining in the press about how everyone was giving him no credit at all and only asking "Why is Alberto not here?" Besides I didn't insult Wiggins or anything like that I just said he's boring

 

[LaFlorecita]

How childish, but unfortunately not surprising for one who idolises a cheat.

If you mean Alberto with "a cheat" then I can only agree.