Wiggins speaks about drugs

[Winterfold]

true - Wiggins really should have won a big ie GT prologue or suitable GT ITT by now. He is fast enough on the road, but I wonder if he has Boardman's focus and guts? Boardman did what he did in a different era of GB cycling - as much in common with hard men and fettling in your shed as with the current setup.

Curious - do you think Boardman was clean?

I do (no surprises there then).

 

[D Avoid]

Dear god, you're obsessed. Such anger. On the evidence (note evidence) of doping scale, if Ricco is a 10 and Armstrong a 9.5, Wiggo is a 1. What's the problem, *** edited by mod

No, he stays awake, which is much worse.

 

[D Avoid]

You're wrong. His writing style, grammar, syntax, and the conveyance of his barely flickering "intelligence" is immediately visible to those of us with above average reading comprehension skills.

So why are you pointing out to him what he needs to alter to fit in better, maybe being caught and ravished is his/its thing, by the way this Dimspace appears to be a different one, Any one here can and might be the troll we fear the most.

 

[Susan Westemeyer]

Stop it right now. Talk about Wiggins.

Susan

 

[fatandfast]

Wiggins is cartoon fast on the track and the road. Wiggins would loose a fight against Millar because of his silly haircut. Wiggins appears to believe all that has been said about him after his first and only great tour result. Wiggins is a talent and deserves some respect. His weight loss will be canceled out by the 4 stones of ego he will be hauling up all the mountains this year. When and if Wiggins gets spanked on some big climbs he can blame all the interviews he did as the reason. I really hope it is just the editing, if Wiggins really is this full of himself he is sunk.

 

[Oldman]

Wiggins is cartoon fast on the track and the road. Wiggins would loose a fight against Millar because of his silly haircut. Wiggins appears to believe all that has been said about him after his first and only great tour result. Wiggins is a talent and deserves some respect. His weight loss will be canceled out by the 4 stones of ego he will be hauling up all the mountains this year. When and if Wiggins gets spanked on some big climbs he can blame all the interviews he did as the reason. I really hope it is just the editing, if Wiggins really is this full of himself he is sunk.

Or he learns something and matures into a decent rider. Without exception almost all Tour debutantes that do well assume some sort of arrogant posture for awhile. Then they found out it's much easier to move up than it is to stay on top.

 

[D Avoid]

I doubt Astana's testing delays and infusion kits were used to give testers accurate samples.

Aside from that, let's say a rider's normal hematocrit is 42%. A 2% rise to 44% is a 4.76% increase. If the rider's HCT should decrease by 10% to 37.8% over the course of a GT then maintaining 44% is a 16.4% increase over normal.

Which rider was relative crap at the start of last year's Tour but considerably better by the end?

Your numbers are incorrect, a 2% rise is in fact .84 points, so all that follows is wrong, maths is a night mare, a two points rise is different, either way , without employing my brain fully, either the gist is wrong or your sums are .

To sum up, it is either 2 points or 2 per cent? you are then all is right if you change % for point.


Susan, I replied as I went through the thread, the car crash may have been old news to you but I was shocked when I arrived on the scene.

 

[Susan Westemeyer]

OK, but enough now, yes?

Susan

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Except this particular car crash is like a reoccurring demolition derby.

Back to Wiggins and the numbers. First, let's not forget on the Giro's queen stage last year Brad came in with the back of the aubobus, four riders from last, some 40 minutes from the leader.

As to the math, the point I think Brodeal was trying to make is that a rider in a GT simply isn't going to have their hct go up over the course of the race naturally. The only ways you'll get a 2 point rise in HCT is through altitude training while starting from low elevation as a base, and not while exercising at maximum, like in a race. The other way of course is through some form of blood boosting.

 

[luckyboy]

Can anyone remember JV's username on here? I want to read what he posted when he used to come on. Thanks.

Didn't he explain it (the anomaly) as having something to do with the fact that Wiggo might've been tested in the morning?

 

[BroDeal]

Your numbers are incorrect, a 2% rise is in fact .84 points, so all that follows is wrong, maths is a night mare, a two points rise is different, either way , without employing my brain fully, either the gist is wrong or your sums are .

To sum up, it is either 2 points or 2 per cent? you are then all is right if you change % for point.

My math is right. My expression of the scenario was probably not so clear.

Here:

Normal HCT is 42%. Rider decides to start the Tour with a small, artificial increase.

42% HCT -> 44% = 4.76% increase. This might only require 250 ml or less of blood. So the rider starts out nearly 5% higher than normal, not huge but signficant.

Maintain the 44% when the HCT should drop 10% (42% -> 37.8%) over the course of the Tour, and by the end of the GT the HCT (44%) is 16.4% higher than it should be (37.8%), a large increase over normal. It should only require about 525 ml of blood to maintain HCT if we assume a 10% decrease and normal total blood volume of 5 l.

The numbers are just illustrative purposes and not meant to be accurate. Trollboy's assertion was that a small change in HCT would not make much of a difference. I am saying that a relatively small change, like 42 to 44%, is actually quite large, especially if ithe HCT is maintained when it should go down due the rigors of racing.

 

[Oldman]

My math is right. My expression of the scenario was probably not so clear.

Here:

Normal HCT is 42%. Rider decides to start the Tour with a small, artificial increase.

42% HCT -> 44% = 4.76% increase. This might only require 250 ml or less of blood. So the rider starts out nearly 5% higher than normal, not huge but signficant.

Maintain the 44% when the HCT should drop 10% (42% -> 37.8%) over the course of the Tour, and by the end of the GT the HCT (44%) is 16.4% higher than it should be (37.8%), a large increase over normal. It should only require about 525 ml of blood to maintain HCT if we assume a 10% decrease and normal total blood volume of 5 l.

The numbers are just illustrative purposes and not meant to be accurate. Trollboy's assertion was that a small change in HCT would not make much of a difference. I am saying that a relatively small change, like 42 to 44%, is actually quite large, especially if ithe HCT is maintained when it should go down due the rigors of racing.

And hugely beneficial the more fatigued the competition becomes and the harder the stages. Of equal interest would be the parallel HCT of the support players of each GT podium finisher. You folks more interested in the absolute science may find some similar profile activity. Anyone done that?

 

[goggalor]

Can anyone remember JV's username on here? I want to read what he posted when he used to come on. Thanks.

Didn't he explain it (the anomaly) as having something to do with the fact that Wiggo might've been tested in the morning?

"JV1973": http://forum.cyclingnews.com/member.php?u=6356

 

[blackcat]

true - Wiggins really should have won a big ie GT prologue or suitable GT ITT by now. He is fast enough on the road, but I wonder if he has Boardman's focus and guts? Boardman did what he did in a different era of GB cycling - as much in common with hard men and fettling in your shed as with the current setup.

Curious - do you think Boardman was clean?

I do (no surprises there then).

no reason not too.

He struggled for results in a mega charged era.

 

[D Avoid]

My math is right. My expression of the scenario was probably not so clear.

Here:

Normal HCT is 42%. Rider decides to start the Tour with a small, artificial increase.

42% HCT -> 44% = 4.76% increase. This might only require 250 ml or less of blood. So the rider starts out nearly 5% higher than normal, not huge but signficant.

Maintain the 44% when the HCT should drop 10% (42% -> 37.8%) over the course of the Tour, and by the end of the GT the HCT (44%) is 16.4% higher than it should be (37.8%), a large increase over normal. It should only require about 525 ml of blood to maintain HCT if we assume a 10% decrease and normal total blood volume of 5 l.

The numbers are just illustrative purposes and not meant to be accurate. Trollboy's assertion was that a small change in HCT would not make much of a difference. I am saying that a relatively small change, like 42 to 44%, is actually quite large, especially if ithe HCT is maintained when it should go down due the rigors of racing.

The banned she? could at least pretend, occasionally to be listening to what others said, your loop of loopyness on the point I made is, well, post prophetic of what some one said about egos earlier in this thread.

It was wrong, it can't be made right because, in two different assertions, you make it so, one in totality, while in the second, you point to their unimportance.

Saying something untrue, deliberately or otherwise, leads another mind on a process of calculation, that may affect the world, like the Butterfly flapping its wings, I don't like weak arguments, so I substitute the butterfly for the platonic bomb, its thinking being that even though it will kill, you'll die in orgasm.

I could assert that the last paragraph is absolutely true and based on irrefutable fact, I only used it to illustrate the futility of following a line that,the fairy's themselves would edit out of a book for impressionable young children.

It would, of course, have been quicker, if I just pointed out that , on the evidence you now provide, like Armstrong, your numbers have been altered.

I am laughing now, as Orwell would have allowed me to, but he , with his journalistic integrity, even though seeing it too, would never have joined in.

 

[Winterfold]

Back to Wiggins and the numbers. First, let's not forget on the Giro's queen stage last year Brad came in with the back of the aubobus, four riders from last, some 40 minutes from the leader.

Yeah but...

a) had tested his legs on some earlier mountain stages and was taking it easy because real objective was the Tour and

b) saving energy to see how he went in final ITT, where he was second, due to a bit of bad luck with the weather

So I would say you can read de nada into that result on the Queen stage, the guy wasn't racing, just keeping inside the time limit.

 

[mikkemus23]

Oh no. again.

 

[BroDeal]

The banned she? could at least pretend, occasionally to be listening to what others said, your loop of loopyness on the point I made is, well, post prophetic of what some one said about egos earlier in this thread.

It was wrong, it can't be made right because, in two different assertions, you make it so, one in totality, while in the second, you point to their unimportance.

Saying something untrue, deliberately or otherwise, leads another mind on a process of calculation, that may affect the world, like the Butterfly flapping its wings, I don't like weak arguments, so I substitute the butterfly for the platonic bomb, its thinking being that even though it will kill, you'll die in orgasm.

I could assert that the last paragraph is absolutely true and based on irrefutable fact, I only used it to illustrate the futility of following a line that,the fairy's themselves would edit out of a book for impressionable young children.

It would, of course, have been quicker, if I just pointed out that , on the evidence you now provide, like Armstrong, your numbers have been altered.

I am laughing now, as Orwell would have allowed me to, but he , with his journalistic integrity, even though seeing it too, would never have joined in.

Does this even make sense??

 

[luckyboy]

I didn't get a word of that

"JV1973": http://forum.cyclingnews.com/member.php?u=6356

Thanks goggalor

 

[this_is_edie]

Does this even make sense??

I was hoping you could explain it to me.

 

[blackcat]

Yeah but...

a) had tested his legs on some earlier mountain stages and was taking it easy because real objective was the Tour and

b) saving energy to see how he went in final ITT, where he was second, due to a bit of bad luck with the weather

So I would say you can read de nada into that result on the Queen stage, the guy wasn't racing, just keeping inside the time limit.

well, how about the first mtn stage?

1 Danilo Di Luca (Ita) LPR Brakes - Farnese Vini 4.15.04 (38.107km/h)
2 Stefano Garzelli (Ita) Acqua & Sapone - Caffe Mokambo
3 Franco Pellizotti (Ita) Liquigas
4 Mauricio Soler (Col) Barloworld
5 Gilberto Simoni (Ita) Serramenti PVC Diquigiovanni-Androni Giocattoli
6 Levi Leipheimer (USA) Astana
7 Thomas Lövkvist (Swe) Team Columbia - Highroad
8 Ivan Basso (Ita) Liquigas
9 Denis Menchov (Rus) Rabobank
10 David Arroyo (Spa) Caisse d'Epargne
11 Yaroslav Popovych (Ukr) Astana
12 Christopher Horner (USA) Astana
13 Tadej Valjavec (Slo) AG2R La Mondiale
14 Damiano Cunego (Ita) Lampre - N.G.C.
15 Marzio Bruseghin (Ita) Lampre - N.G.C.
16 Carlos Sastre (Spa) Cervelo Test Team
17 Jelle Vanendert (Bel) Silence-Lotto 0.06
18 Félix Cardenas (Col) Barloworld
19 Joaquin Rodriguez (Spa) Caisse d'Epargne
20 Michael Rogers (Aus) Team Columbia - Highroad
21 Michele Scarponi (Ita) Serramenti PVC Diquigiovanni-Androni Giocattoli
22 Fredrik Kessiakoff (Swe) Fuji-Servetto
23 Laurens Ten Dam (Ned) Rabobank
24 Kevin Seeldrayers (Bel) Quick Step
25 Leonardo Bertagnolli (Ita) Serramenti PVC Diquigiovanni-Androni Giocattoli
26 Francesco Masciarelli (Ita) Acqua & Sapone - Caffe Mokambo
27 Kanstantsin Siutsou (Blr) Team Columbia - Highroad 0.10
28 Thomas Rohregger (Aut) Team Milram 0.13
29 John-Lee Augustyn (RSA) Barloworld
30 Janez Brajkovic (Slo) Astana 0.15
31 Daniel Navarro (Spa) Astana
32 Lance Armstrong (USA) Astana
33 Volodymir Gustov (Ukr) Cervelo Test Team
34 Evgeny Petrov (Rus) Team Katusha 0.28
35 Bradley Wiggins (GBr) Garmin - Slipstream 0.32

now, in the pre-EPO and blood parameters era, riders would have less fluctuation in form. It is my position that "form", is but a euphemism for "synchronizing one's medical program". Wigans would have been au bloc on this stage.

 

[PACONi]

Wigans basically did a 'Kohl' last year at the Tour. Noone was surprised when he went positive. So why would anyone be surprised at the level of suspicion surrounding Wigans now?

 

[blackcat]

Wigans basically did a 'Kohl' last year at the Tour. Noone was surprised when he went positive. So why would anyone be surprised at the level of suspicion surrounding Wigans now?

Why? Garmin and GB Cycling did a great job in hoodwinking fandom.

I also dont think riders have a change of heart and say f' it, when they get to the last 1/3rd of their career, and pull the trigger on a medical program. They just have a proper program targeted to new objectives.

 

[BroDeal]

Wigans basically did a 'Kohl' last year at the Tour. Noone was surprised when he went positive. So why would anyone be surprised at the level of suspicion surrounding Wigans now?

If a rider seems like he is a good guy who would not use drugs then the rider is probably clean. Nice guys do not dope. Only bad people, who if they were not pro cyclists would likely be rocking a Snidely Whiplash mustache and strangling prostitutes in the backseat of their cars at night, dope. It is all pretty simple.

 

[fatandfast]

If a rider seems like he is a good guy who would not use drugs then the rider is probably clean. Nice guys do not dope. Only bad people, who if they were not pro cyclists would likely be rocking a Snidely Whiplash mustache and strangling prostitutes in the backseat of their cars at night, dope. It is all pretty simple.

Thank you for posting this. I sat on some steps with a metal edging and when I stood up my pants ripped @ a 3 inch hole. I was pretty pist until I read this.