Wiggins speaks about drugs

[Anonymous]

no reason not too.

He struggled for results in a mega charged era.

Boardman was definitely clean, which is funny as he would have benefitted hugely from doping, I mean, doping would have helped him more than usual... There was an interview with him recently where he said towards the late 90's he had some blood tests to find out why he alwaays faded badly in stage races, and it was discovered that he had a low level of some hormone that meant his recovery was very poor. The team doctors said "Ok, great, we'll get you a medical certificate for hormone deficiency to sort that out", but shortly afterwards the Festina scandal broke and the team came back and said "erm, no, actually, we can't do that any more".

So:

1. Boardman clearly came this close to doping, even though it was explained to him as correcting a hormone deficiency; and

2. If he had doped for recovery purposes, we may well have had a Brit on the GC podium before now.*

Edit * Which in a way is a shame that he missed out by being honest in the dirtiest era in memory.

 

[Anonymous]

Why? Garmin and GB Cycling did a great job in hoodwinking fandom.

I also dont think riders have a change of heart and say f' it, when they get to the last 1/3rd of their career, and pull the trigger on a medical program. They just have a proper program targeted to new objectives.

While we're always going to disagree on him at the moment, as I'm not ready to let the darkness of cynicism completely wash over me, I am concerned that Wiggo seems to be of a personality type that would look to doping to further other ambitions. He's openly stated he wants the bright lights of fame, to be treated like a rock star, and as soon as someone craves that fame as an objective in itself, they more often than not will try to get it by any means necessary.

 

[Winterfold]

Boardman's body is wrecked on the altar of competitive cycling. What has happened to him makes the case for some kind of restorative programme aimed at protecting the riders' health seem like a sensible idea.

(he also got diagnosed with osteroporosis, his choices were take hgh and save your hip (I think) but give up cycling, or dont take the hgh and carry on cycling. This was in 1998, in 2000 he broke Merckx's hour record on a sporting bike. The guy is a total legend/hero.)

 

[Winterfold]

While we're always going to disagree on him at the moment, as I'm not ready to let the darkness of cynicism completely wash over me, I am concerned that Wiggo seems to be of a personality type that would look to doping to further other ambitions. He's openly stated he wants the bright lights of fame, to be treated like a rock star, and as soon as someone craves that fame as an objective in itself, they more often than not will try to get it by any means necessary.

Yep - I think this is a fair point. I dont want to be totally cynical, but I dont want to feel let down either.

 

[blackcat]

Does anyone think Brailsford is not serious in his quest to win the Tour?

Does anyone think the major teams who contended in July in the last decade, T-Mobile, USPS, CSC, ONCE did not have a team wide medical program?

Does anyone think you can win the Tour without a medical program?

In light of this, what is your opinion on the model Brailsford will pursue?

In hindsight, what could this tell you about the GB track cycling program?

 

[Ripper]

the banned she? Could at least pretend, occasionally to be listening to what others said, your loop of loopyness on the point i made is, well, post prophetic of what some one said about egos earlier in this thread.

It was wrong, it can't be made right because, in two different assertions, you make it so, one in totality, while in the second, you point to their unimportance.

Saying something untrue, deliberately or otherwise, leads another mind on a process of calculation, that may affect the world, like the butterfly flapping its wings, i don't like weak arguments, so i substitute the butterfly for the platonic bomb, its thinking being that even though it will kill, you'll die in orgasm.

I could assert that the last paragraph is absolutely true and based on irrefutable fact, i only used it to illustrate the futility of following a line that,the fairy's themselves would edit out of a book for impressionable young children.

It would, of course, have been quicker, if i just pointed out that , on the evidence you now provide, like armstrong, your numbers have been altered.

I am laughing now, as orwell would have allowed me to, but he , with his journalistic integrity, even though seeing it too, would never have joined in.

wtf?.........

 

[PACONi]

Why? Garmin and GB Cycling did a great job in hoodwinking fandom.

I also dont think riders have a change of heart and say f' it, when they get to the last 1/3rd of their career, and pull the trigger on a medical program. They just have a proper program targeted to new objectives.

Did they? I think LA does it better. Hell I went out a lifted my seatpost by 2mm and got a 10% improvement too......

The BS that comes out of teams/individuals is not too hard to see through if you apply a little commonsense. Interesting point you make about starting a program late in a career. I'd never really considered it like that. I expect you're probably right, although there's probably some exceptions to the rule. I actually think a guy like Baden Cooke has gone in the opposite direction. ie full program, then for whatever reason toned it down. Green Jersey winners shouldn't lose form in such a drastic way like he did.

If a rider seems like he is a good guy who would not use drugs then the rider is probably clean. Nice guys do not dope. Only bad people, who if they were not pro cyclists would likely be rocking a Snidely Whiplash mustache and strangling prostitutes in the backseat of their cars at night, dope. It is all pretty simple.

Don't forget the losers who have to dope just to keep up. Real Champions have so much natural talent that they don't need to dope!

 

[Winterfold]

Good rhetorical questions. That will not be answered.

Do you think if Brailsford had Contador on Sky Contador could win without a programme?

 

[Winterfold]

wtf?.........

spambot? was there a link in the sig?

 

[PACONi]

Does anyone think Brailsford is not serious in his quest to win the Tour?

Does anyone think the major teams who contended in July in the last decade, T-Mobile, USPS, CSC, ONCE did not have a team wide medical program?

Does anyone think you can win the Tour without a medical program?

In light of this, what is your opinion on the model Brailsford will pursue?

In hindsight, what could this tell you about the GB track cycling program?

But times have changed, just ask Pat.

 

[Ripper]

spambot? was there a link in the sig?

Not sure what you mean. The WTF was because I have no idea what the post I quoted was talking about ... it just made no sense.

 

[D Avoid]

Does this even make sense??

Your failing(choosing) to comprehend it points in two directions, the first is obvious, inability to either admit or notice when you are wrong. Secondly it appears that the "Banned she" was correct in thinking that there is an us and them scenario, I have no need for the us'rs.

I will in future allow for what our discussion tells me I should perceive as the present level of your mental gymnastry.

As for mr WTF, boring lazy post, same general reply as to above pos(t)er.

 

[Ripper]

Your failing(choosing) to comprehend it points in two directions, the first is obvious, inability to either admit or notice when you are wrong. Secondly it appears that the "Banned she" was correct in thinking that there is an us and them scenario, I have no need for the us'rs.

I will in future allow for what our discussion tells me I should perceive as the present level of your mental gymnastry.

As for mr WTF, boring lazy post, same general reply as to above pos(t)er.

I see you are affiliated with the them'rs ... and who would be "Banned she"?

 

[I Watch Cycling In July]

Your failing(choosing) to comprehend it points in two directions, the first is obvious, inability to either admit or notice when you are wrong....

Another interpretation is that you didn't explain the (valid) point you were making very well so BroDeal didn't follow it....

(For anyone who is unclear:

A two PERCENTAGE POINT increase in hematocrit means the proportion of total blood volume occupied by red blood is 2% higher...ie 42% to 44%

A two PERCENT increase in hematocrit means the volume of red blood cells* has increase 2% from where it was before ...ie 42% x 102/100 = 42.84%)

The troll isn't here at the moment, can't we all just try and cool our frayed tempers a bit.

*strictly speaking this volume is still measured as a proportion of the total blood volume

 

[Hugh Januss]

I seriously doubt that this guy is our resident troll, you guys should try looking at some back posts before accusing people.
He's just some guy who has gotten himself into an argument with Brodeal, quelle surprise.
Admittedly the one post was on the batshit crazy side, but it didn't really require a half dozen guys springing up to defend Bro's honor, he is quite capable of that by himself.
I got no dog in this fight, but sometimes it's easy to see that Dim had a point with some of his complaints.

 

[spanky wanderlust]

wtf?.........

i think this poster is cutting and pasting passages from finnegan's wake. maybe ulysses. there is a reason i could never get through either of those.

 

[blackcat]

i think this poster is cutting and pasting passages from finnegan's wake. maybe ulysses. there is a reason i could never get through either of those.

love the name spanky

 

[blackcat]

Another interpretation is that you didn't explain the (valid) point you were making very well so BroDeal didn't follow it....

(For anyone who is unclear:

A two PERCENTAGE POINT increase in hematocrit means the proportion of total blood volume occupied by red blood is 2% higher...ie 42% to 44%

A two PERCENT increase in hematocrit means the volume of red blood cells* has increase 2% from where it was before ...ie 42% x 102/100 = 42.84%)

The troll isn't here at the moment, can't we all just try and cool our frayed tempers a bit.

*strictly speaking this volume is still measured as a proportion of the total blood volume

also, what happens when you slam a bag of packed cells or complete blood with the plasma. The blood with plasma will just increase capacity and total hemoglobin, but not the crit, until the plasma naturally drains off and dissipates. But then they use plasma expanders which can get the crit down I think.

The peloton worked how to get the same equivalent O2 delivery that Riis had, even when he was at 60%. They have got around it, to still test at 42 crit, but ride with O2 delivery that Riis has at 60%. Transfusions, other products, methods to test at lower crit, etc.

 

[blackcat]

Good rhetorical questions. That will not be answered.

Do you think if Brailsford had Contador on Sky Contador could win without a programme?

no, Sky could not win with Contador, unless, Contador had his DIY plausible deniability program with Fran. That was what JV would have been willing to compromise. Berto's own doctor, and entry to the hotel. Berto would not have had to sneak off to slam 400ml of packed cells.

I need to channel Bigboat some more, gees it is fun

'no flames.

 

[Ferminal]

30 Janez Brajkovic (Slo) Astana 0.15
31 Daniel Navarro (Spa) Astana
32 Lance Armstrong (USA) Astana
33 Volodymir Gustov (Ukr) Cervelo Test Team
34 Evgeny Petrov (Rus) Team Katusha 0.28
35 Bradley Wiggins (GBr) Garmin - Slipstream 0.32[/SIZE]

now, in the pre-EPO and blood parameters era, riders would have less fluctuation in form. It is my position that "form", is but a euphemism for "synchronizing one's medical program". Wigans would have been au bloc on this stage.

Oh look, he came in behind the "TexExpress" Bus.

 

[I Watch Cycling In July]

OK, now it's my frayed temper that's being tested.

also, what happens when you slam a bag of packed cells or complete blood with the plasma. The blood with plasma will just increase capacity and total hemoglobin, but not the crit, until the plasma naturally drains off and dissipates. But then they use plasma expanders which can get the crit down I think.

Blackcat, you totally missed the point of my post.

I WAS NOT ARGUING about the well known methods of blood boosting or masking.

I made ONE TINY POINT ABOUT TERMINOLOGY that seemed to be causing confusion ................

And you immediately jump on your soap box to drone on about stuff UNRELATED TO THE POSTS.

FFS

 

[blackcat]

sorry IWCIJ

 

[Big GMaC]

30 Janez Brajkovic (Slo) Astana 0.15
31 Daniel Navarro (Spa) Astana
32 Lance Armstrong (USA) Astana

Someone was being dragged up that hill

 

[bobbins]

Boardman was definitely clean, which is funny as he would have benefitted hugely from doping, I mean, doping would have helped him more than usual... There was an interview with him recently where he said towards the late 90's he had some blood tests to find out why he alwaays faded badly in stage races, and it was discovered that he had a low level of some hormone that meant his recovery was very poor. The team doctors said "Ok, great, we'll get you a medical certificate for hormone deficiency to sort that out", but shortly afterwards the Festina scandal broke and the team came back and said "erm, no, actually, we can't do that any more".

So:

1. Boardman clearly came this close to doping, even though it was explained to him as correcting a hormone deficiency; and

2. If he had doped for recovery purposes, we may well have had a Brit on the GC podium before now.*

Edit * Which in a way is a shame that he missed out by being honest in the dirtiest era in memory.

You have no more proof of this than you do of Wiggins etc being clean apart from maybe Wiggins has published his blood values and they have been scrutinised by people who know and have concluded that it is a normal profile.

Surely you need more proof that riders are doped than them performing well in a bike race?

 

[Anonymous]

You have no more proof of this than you do of Wiggins etc being clean apart from maybe Wiggins has published his blood values and they have been scrutinised by people who know and have concluded that it is a normal profile.

Surely you need more proof that riders are doped than them performing well in a bike race?

Eh? What am I supposed to have more proof for? Doping or being clean?