Will Contador Be Juiced Up Again Upon His Return

[roundabout]

Evans turned to the road full time at 25. Contador turned pro at 20.

 

[jilbiker]

Well, here's a theory, well to not degrade the word any further, let's call it speculation.

After the recent doping busts of several low-level riders caught with GW-501516 in their samples, we can safely assume that at least part of the peloton has changed gear[1] from traditional blood doping, such as EPO, to metabolic modulators, such as GW-50, Telmisartan and Aicar. We also know that different people react differently to different medication, adding at least one additional factor to the genetic predisposition to do well in cycling and other sports. What if this alone might cause a shift in dominance between top riders. It might not be unreasonable to think that the odds are that there is no single rider that benefits the most from every variety of PEDs.

From what I've read on fora related to the use of doping (e.g., bodybuilding fora), GW-50 seems a great drug to enhance overall endurance, but, if used to enhance endurance maximally, might actually inhibit sudden bursts of high power needed in heavy weight lifting or, for instance, pure anaerobic sprints. In the bodybuilding community, this is mainly explained by a shift of metabolism to and increase in aerobic mechanisms, such as fat burning (main reason for bodybuilders to use the drug)[2]. In short, it might favor those riders with a riding style of continuous high watts (ala Sky-train) in stead of those with the ability to maintain high anaerobic attacks for a greater period of time than the rest (ala attacking with two to three km's to go, like Contador used to do).

Remarks
[1] "Gear" is often used on fora discussing the use of PEDs as a term for those PEDs, such as steroids and, more recently, SARMS and other peptides. Might those "gear problems" given so often these days after a bad performance be a euphemism for selecting the wrong drugs? I think not, but I can't help thinking that every time a rider is quoted saying something like that.
[2] Some anecdotal evidence, stories from GW-50 users on steroid websites, seem to suggest that the user might maintain aerobic metabolism at higher heart rates than usual, but were sometimes unable to use glucose as a fuel. This remind me of De Gendt saying that he was getting dropped on a climb with a very high heart rate, but not feeling very much pain or a feeling of being wasted. Oh, well, speculation. There are so many possible explanations...

Just read on Wikipedia about GW501516 " The drug was discovered to cause cancer in rats and GlaxoSmithKline has ceased development". Thats amazing what these folks put themselves through all for an extra buck. Cancer causing drugs, Blood bags, injections in the scrotum and who knows what else. Horrible! Horrible!

 

[The Hitch]

What was the vuelta 2012 then? Don't be idiotic...

I hope he'll visit some doctor. Better a chance getting caught than having this ****.

You don't care about his personal health? What if he and Macarena want to have children. It's sad that in modern cycling people are put in these positions where they have to play Russian roulette with their health to reach their potential and I can understand why they tak the decision under the circumstances but it is still the wrong thing to do and the dumb thing to do

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Maybe Contador have a terrible disease, from all those blood transfusion maybe they fcuk up somewhere :tinpot theoryy"

 

[jilbiker]

You don't care about his personal health? What if he and Macarena want to have children. It's sad that in modern cycling people are put in these positions where they have to play Russian roulette with their health to reach their potential and I can understand why they tak the decision under the circumstances but no way it is still the wrong thing to do and the dumb thing to do

You know Hitch I was actually thinking along the same lines. That his wife warned him not to juice any more much like BetsyA warned her Fiance/husband. I think the marriage is is the one huge change in AC's life and people take the marriage commitment differently. For Lance it was a minor item which he committed the remnants of his time to. To AC it may mean the world to him.

 

[Miburo]

You don't care about his personal health? What if he and Macarena want to have children. It's sad that in modern cycling people are put in these positions where they have to play Russian roulette with their health to reach their potential and I can understand why they tak the decision under the circumstances but no way it is still the wrong thing to do and the dumb thing to do

Call it a first reaction from me

But hey vino and armstrong have kids But anyway if contador isn't on the dope right now i'm sure he will now.

Assuming he stopped this year, i don't think he'll be able to resist.

 

[Pulpstar]

He is 30 not 29. 31 in December.

Same age Evans was in 2007. Think about that for a second people. He's got plenty of years filled with GT wins ahead of him.

Age in sport isn't just someone's age though. I'll use boxing as an example - Froch is peaking at the age of 35 now and beat Kessler who was 34. Froch is a year older than Kessler but in sports-age terms is the much younger man, 33 fights against 49. Kessler is an old 34 whereas Froch is a young 35.

Contador turned pro at 2003, and hes ridden alot of hard GTs hard (Winning them !) - that could really age ones legs I assume. He may well have been fine at the VUelta and I think this was a genuinely awful day but long term I think we will now see the kind of creeping decline that Federer is experiencing in the tennis.

 

[biopass]

Will he risk it and juice for TDF? I doubt it, its way too late.

Of course he'll be juiced for the Tour. He's riding like he just had blood extracted for later use.

 

[WillemS]

Just read on Wikipedia about GW501516 " The drug was discovered to cause cancer in rats and GlaxoSmithKline has ceased development". Thats amazing what these folks put themselves through all for an extra buck. Cancer causing drugs, Blood bags, injections in the scrotum and who knows what else. Horrible! Horrible!

Do you want to know what the usual response is to that on "fitness"-fora?

The risk of cancer is very low in humans as the dosage that is prescribed on those fora, about 10mg-20mg per day, is much lower than the dosage used in those studies (if you convert the rat's dosage to a human dosage, the dosages were ranging from 500mg to 5000mg per day). Also, compared with human use, the rat's intake duration was much greater, about 7 years in "human time", versus 2 to 4 months that are prescribed for humans on those fora.

Still, using the drug probably increases the risk of cancer, but it's not the only drug doing that. Telmisartan, which actually shares some of its mechanisms with GW-50, also increases the cancer risk, but contrary to GW-50, it is a legal drug. A lot of drugs are probably increasing the risk of cancer, especially if they alter gene expression in cells. In medical practice, the estimated benefit of the drug has to outweigh the estimated increase in cancer risk to be prescribed. In the realm of doping, what estimated benefits outweigh cancer risks? I think that balance is different for everyone. For me, I would never use it, for an athlete, that comparison might be different.

 

[taiwan]

Because the red cells live about 30 days, and because you have to recover from the extraction, they often gave their blood just before or just after the Dauphiné, according to Hamilton.

But that was the old method, more than ten years ago, in 2004 Fuentes started freezing the blood bags, in that case, the BB's can be used months after the extraction, which is no more the cause of underperforming like Contador today.

IMO, he's simply on zero blood doping this week, keeping his blood stocks for the Tour and not able any more to use EPO microdoses because of the new testing protocol. The remaining question is "what the Sky are on" ?

Exactly the info I needed, ty

 

[The Hitch]

Contador's performance this season is consistent with riders in post doping suspension era. They can't seem to find that killer touch any more. His win at the Vuelta 2012 was similar to Ivan Basso's Giro win post his suspension. After the Giro we never heard anything significant from Basso. AC is doing his best this season, I don't buy the sick excuse from Saxo, his best doesn't cut it.

I say this is a bread and water AC and the truth is that it doesn't cut it, the peleton is still on PED. Will he risk it and juice for TDF? I doubt it, its way too late.

We never saw anything from basso after the giro? Well he was getting on in age. And bare in mind that the next season as he was peaking for the tour this happened

he was 33.that was a month and a half before the tour which ****ed up his prep. He still managed to come like 7th I think in the tour and then came top5 in Lombardy.

the next year he came 5th in the giro at 34. This year he had to pulp out of the giro because of illness.

so he really wasn't that'd bad.

 

[WillemS]

Please explain. A doped Contador was clearly untouchable in years past. Are you saying he was previously doped against a clean or less-doped field and now they're catching up to him doping-wise? That's not plausible.

Well, I've also posted this in another thread about Contador, but it's relevant here.

Different people react differently to different kinds of medication, so your comparison with the past does not hold. What we are witnessing is a paradigm shift from blood doping to metabolic modulators as blood doping is getting more and more detectable with the introduction of the blood passport. In comparison to blood doping, metabolic modulators hardly change the blood profile thus rendering the traditional blood passport useless.

What we see is that other people might benefit more from the current generation of PEDs than Contador. I'm not at all surprised that with the shift from blood doping to metabolic modulators (such as GW-501515, Telmisartan, & Aicar), we see a shift of balance in rider dominance. Different people react differently to different kinds of drugs.

I've added some speculations to this ones in another post, here.

 

[The Hitch]

Because the red cells live about 30 days, and because you have to recover from the extraction, they often gave their blood just before or just after the Dauphiné, according to Hamilton.

But that was the old method, more than ten years ago, in 2004 Fuentes started freezing the blood bags, in that case, the BB's can be used months after the extraction, which is no more the cause of underperforming like Contador today.

IMO, he's simply on zero blood doping this week, keeping his blood stocks for the Tour and not able any more to use EPO microdoses because of the new testing protocol. The remaining question is "what the Sky are on" ?

On their bikes 6 hours a day. What are you on.

 

[SundayRider]

Also might have just done a really heavy period of training, with no taper/rest before the race.

 

[Tom T.]

Well, I've also posted this in another thread about Contador, but it's relevant here.

Different people react differently to different kinds of medication, so your comparison with the past does not hold. What we are witnessing is a paradigm shift from blood doping to metabolic modulators as blood doping is getting more and more detectable with the introduction of the blood passport. In comparison to blood doping, metabolic modulators hardly change the blood profile thus rendering the traditional blood passport useless.

What we see is that other people might benefit more from the current generation of PEDs than Contador. I'm not at all surprised that with the shift from blood doping to metabolic modulators (such as GW-501515, Telmisartan, & Aicar), we see a shift of balance in rider dominance. Different people react differently to different kinds of drugs.

I've added some speculations to this ones in another post, here.

Thanks, good info there.

 

[SlowBloke]

Dauphine ITT

3:37 down, falling to 34th in the GC.

"Alberto Contador tried to shrug off his bad day against the clock, claiming that an allergy problem had affected his ride."

Ah, that well known allergy he has to steak now.

Oh for the good old days

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

So, Alberto is unimpressive post-suspension. Luckily other pre-suspension riders have stepped up.

 

[Pulpstar]

Because the red cells live about 30 days, and because you have to recover from the extraction, they often gave their blood just before or just after the Dauphiné, according to Hamilton.

But that was the old method, more than ten years ago, in 2004 Fuentes started freezing the blood bags, in that case, the BB's can be used months after the extraction, which is no more the cause of underperforming like Contador today.

IMO, he's simply on zero blood doping this week, keeping his blood stocks for the Tour and not able any more to use EPO microdoses because of the new testing protocol. The remaining question is "what the Sky are on" ?

Here in the UK alot of people voluntarily (myself included) give blood donations voluntarily to help out. Putting a wild idea out there, perhaps each registered Grand Tour rider could give a pint 6 weeks or so before the start of each Grand Tour. Physiologically they'd be recovered by then and you certainly wouldn't want to double dip on an extraction as that would be wildly dangerous and performance dropping I'd imagine.

 

[Parrulo]

http://www.velo-club.net/prntopic.php?forum=3&topic=58788&post_id=1872572

Credits for this go to Roundabout who posted it on the RR section. Anyway this guy says that Contador's numbers are fine and all that.

But what truly matters about this is that it seems like AFDL are all over Contador even testing while he was doing reckon. Interesting imo.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Here in the UK alot of people voluntarily (myself included) give blood donations voluntarily to help out. Putting a wild idea out there, perhaps each registered Grand Tour rider could give a pint 6 weeks or so before the start of each Grand Tour. Physiologically they'd be recovered by then and you certainly wouldn't want to double dip on an extraction as that would be wildly dangerous and performance dropping I'd imagine.

The problem is that you can't force someone to donate blood

 

[The Hitch]

http://www.velo-club.net/prntopic.php?forum=3&topic=58788&post_id=1872572

Credits for this go to Roundabout who posted it on the RR section. Anyway this guy says that Contador's numbers are fine and all that.

But what truly matters about this is that it seems like AFDL are all over Contador even testing while he was doing reckon. Interesting imo.

It's in French. Could you or someone else give some more info about what is in there.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

http://www.velo-club.net/prntopic.php?forum=3&topic=58788&post_id=1872572

Credits for this go to Roundabout who posted it on the RR section. Anyway this guy says that Contador's numbers are fine and all that.

But what truly matters about this is that it seems like AFDL are all over Contador even testing while he was doing reckon. Interesting imo.

It could all be BS by the poster .. not saying it is.

 

[Miburo]

On their bikes 6 hours a day. What are you on.

It should be: In tenerife on their bikes 6 hours a day. What are you on?

 

[Boeing]

Well, here's a theory, well to not degrade the word any further, let's call it speculation.

After the recent doping busts of several low-level riders caught with GW-501516 in their samples, we can safely assume that at least part of the peloton has changed gear[1] from traditional blood doping, such as EPO, to metabolic modulators, such as GW-50, Telmisartan and Aicar. We also know that different people react differently to different medication, adding at least one additional factor to the genetic predisposition to do well in cycling and other sports. What if this alone might cause a shift in dominance between top riders. It might not be unreasonable to think that the odds are that there is no single rider that benefits the most from every variety of PEDs.

From what I've read on fora related to the use of doping (e.g., bodybuilding fora), GW-50 seems a great drug to enhance overall endurance, but, if used to enhance endurance maximally, might actually inhibit sudden bursts of high power needed in heavy weight lifting or, for instance, pure anaerobic sprints. In the bodybuilding community, this is mainly explained by a shift of metabolism to and increase in aerobic mechanisms, such as fat burning (main reason for bodybuilders to use the drug)[2]. In short, it might favor those riders with a riding style of continuous high watts (ala Sky-train) in stead of those with the ability to maintain high anaerobic attacks for a greater period of time than the rest (ala attacking with two to three km's to go, like Contador used to do).

Remarks
[1] "Gear" is often used on fora discussing the use of PEDs as a term for those PEDs, such as steroids and, more recently, SARMS and other peptides. Might those "gear problems" given so often these days after a bad performance be a euphemism for selecting the wrong drugs? I think not, but I can't help thinking that every time a rider is quoted saying something like that.
[2] Some anecdotal evidence, stories from GW-50 users on steroid websites, seem to suggest that the user might maintain aerobic metabolism at higher heart rates than usual, but were sometimes unable to use glucose as a fuel. This remind me of De Gendt saying that he was getting dropped on a climb with a very high heart rate, but not feeling very much pain or a feeling of being wasted. Oh, well, speculation. There are so many possible explanations...

Nice post, I hope you find the time to contribute more. this is the first readable post in the clinic in maybe 3 years.

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

IMO, he's simply on zero blood doping this week, keeping his blood stocks for the Tour and not able any more to use EPO microdoses because of the new testing protocol. The remaining question is "what the Sky are on" ?

That makes no sense. You can't blood dope without micro-dosing EPO. Not in the ABP-era.