Will Contador Be Juiced Up Again Upon His Return

[Netserk]

Merged the two Contador threads in the clinic.

 

[richwagmn]

And just what were his "old doping habits" exactly?

00.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000005% of clenbutarol-whatever.

Transfusions.

 

[LaFlorecita]

You don't care about his personal health? What if he and Macarena want to have children. It's sad that in modern cycling people are put in these positions where they have to play Russian roulette with their health to reach their potential and I can understand why they tak the decision under the circumstances but it is still the wrong thing to do and the dumb thing to do

I guess you are right but it is kinda sad for the fans

 

[B_Ugli]

I don't know what chapter of the book it is but in Tyler Hamiltons book he mentions him and LA taking out a bag prior to the Dauphine and them both feeling & riding like crap for a period of time.

Ffwd a few weeks later to the Tour they ripped the race apart.

Food for thought.

 

[Netserk]

I don't know what chapter of the book it is but in Tyler Hamiltons book he mentions him and LA taking out a bag prior to the Dauphine and them both feeling & riding like crap for a period of time.

Ffwd a few weeks later to the Tour they ripped the race apart.

Food for thought.

He also mentioned that they took a bag out after the Dauphine, where he then rode Route du Sud, where he was über crap.

 

[richwagmn]

I don't know what chapter of the book it is but in Tyler Hamiltons book he mentions him and LA taking out a bag prior to the Dauphine and them both feeling & riding like crap for a period of time.

Ffwd a few weeks later to the Tour they ripped the race apart.

Food for thought.

I think this has a good chance of being true. I doubt AC has given up on transfusions.

 

[Bumeington]

Here in the UK alot of people voluntarily (myself included) give blood donations voluntarily to help out. Putting a wild idea out there, perhaps each registered Grand Tour rider could give a pint 6 weeks or so before the start of each Grand Tour. Physiologically they'd be recovered by then and you certainly wouldn't want to double dip on an extraction as that would be wildly dangerous and performance dropping I'd imagine.

Not if they wanted to train super hard in the last 6 weeks

 

[Bala Verde]

Scared straight? We'll know once the TdF starts I guess.

 

[TourOfSardinia]

Don't forget the added incentive NOT to dope.....he could/should be looking at lifetime ban if he's done again.

again?

 

[TourOfSardinia]

Because the red cells live about 30 days, and because you have to recover from the extraction, they often gave their blood just before or just after the Dauphiné, according to Hamilton.

But that was the old method, more than ten years ago, in 2004 Fuentes started freezing the blood bags, in that case, the BB's can be used months after the extraction, which is no more the cause of underperforming like Contador today.

IMO, he's simply on zero blood doping this week, keeping his blood stocks for the Tour and not able any more to use EPO microdoses because of the new testing protocol. The remaining question is "what the Sky are on" ?

Pretty sure RB Cells have longer average life say 110 days.

 

[LaFlorecita]

again?

Yea he got busted once you know

 

[B_Ugli]

He also mentioned that they took a bag out after the Dauphine, where he then rode Route du Sud, where he was über crap.

That might be it - I lent the book to a friend so I don't have it to hand to find the relevant part but I knew it was around the time of the Dauphine.

If this is the case and the French are heavily testing him surely get is going to get busted again. The allergy excuse being put forward today leaves the door open to some TUE's I would have thought in upcoming weeks.

I dunno the whole thing looks highly iffy just like a chapter from a Tyler Hamilton book.................some things never change!

Maybe he is going all for nothing on the Tour this year? Seems like a high risk strategy as 2nd time would be a lifetime ban.

 

[TourOfSardinia]

Yea he got busted once you know

but he did he admit anything? No. So that left space to deny the true-believer syndrome

 

[JimmyFingers]

he had hayfever today, panic over

 

[Merckx index]

Pretty sure RB Cells have longer average life say 110 days.

You’re both right. Gregga was referring to the fact that blood extracted from the body can be stored about 30-40 days in a refrigerator. Red blood cells in the body do have a half life of around 3-4 months.

A lot of interesting explanations for Bert’s poor performance have been proposed, but to me, his performance was so bad that it’s very unlikely to be accounted for (just) by factors like age decline or off the program (either more or less permanently, or just for now because he’s saving his blood bags). An allergy is possible, though against that, Bert has ridden the DL before (IOW, same time of year, same exposure to allergens), and while he’s never won it, and in fact had some disappointing performances in the past (got seriously outclimbed by Brajkovic, but went on to win the TDF), nothing like what happened today. Allergic reactions I'm sure can vary from year to year, dependent on weather and other factors, but AFAIK, Bert since he won the Tour in 2007 has never had a performance this shockingly poor. He almost blew the 2010 TDF with a poor final ITT, but it wasn't nearly as bad as what he did today.

I also doubt the weakness from withdrawal hypothesis, not only because he has the means to store cells frozen, but because if that were the case, why enter the race? Bad blood? Again, I doubt it. If you store frozen, that is very unlikely to happen. Unless, as Tyler thinks happened with him, your blood got mixed up with someone else’s. But someone of Bert’s status unlikely to have to worry about that. But I have to admit I have no explanation that fits perfectly, either.

 

[Netserk]

@Pollen allergy:

I understand the pollen excuse btw.

Today was one of the first really nice days of the spring. Normally I've got the worst allergies in march/april and it's over by june. But now today is one of the worst days I've EVER encountered with pollen allergies..

I'm sneezing the moment i get outside and my eyes are itching/burning constantly.

If Contador really has pollen allergies he must have had a terrible day

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Interesting to hear this. Here in the US, we are having some of the worst pollen problems in memory. I have never seen it this bad. I'm not allergic, but even our dog is sneezing.

I understand Contador's allergies. I can't believe some people are not more sympathetic. How many of you are not allergic to having pints of blood taken out of you? Anyone?

 

[airstream]

Interesting to hear this. Here in the US, we are having some of the worst pollen problems in memory. I have never seen it this bad. I'm not allergic, but even our dog is sneezing.

I understand Contador's allergies. I can't believe some people are not more sympathetic. How many of you are not allergic to having pints of blood taken out of you? Anyone?

That's the reason of the fail, but not the reason of defeat which was inevitable

 

[blackcat]

I understand Contador's allergies. I can't believe some people are not more sympathetic. How many of you are not allergic to having pints of blood taken out of you? Anyone?

this

remember Landis in 2006, he had some tests at Dauphine, good timetrial, second, then he joined the autobus. gotta think that after his tt in 2006 he took out a pint or two. go to autobus.cyclingnews.com and see for yourself.

 

[WillemS]

I also doubt the weakness from withdrawal hypothesis, not only because he has the means to store cells frozen, but because if that were the case, why enter the race?

Ah, to add to the speculation, the feedback loop involving endogenous erythropoietin, tissue oxygenation (see American Journal of Kidney Diseases, 1991 Oct;18(4 Suppl 1):20-3), takes a while to restore endogenous EPO production after a exogenous EPO cycle. Thus, red blood cell production might actually be lowered after an EPO cycle. Combine that with a rebound from blood drawing, it is logical for performance to go down after an EPO-cycle combined with blood drawing.

Since the feedback loops kicks in after the blood is drawn, your tissue oxygenation will lower as there's less blood transport oxygen, your body starts producing red blood cells again to counter the transfusion. However, as you're now off the EPO-cycle, endogenous erythropoietin will be only be produced to reach your natural tissue oxygenation supported by your natural level of red blood cells, not your supernatural tissue oxygenation caused by exogenous EPO use.

Therefore, after a cycle that ended with blood being drawn, a cyclist might perform near his "natural" level. Only after reinfusing your epo-boosted blood, you will have supernatural (i.e., above natural) issue oxygenation causing high levels of performance.

Again, this is pure speculation by extrapolating some medical knowledge as these conditions haven't actually been studied. I don't know if the same mechanisms apply to these "extreme" conditions or if continued microdosing could or should counter this regression to natural levels. (You can't have that, a downwards fluctuation from epo-levels would show up on the biological passport analysis.) Also, this is not my strong point, I know some basic biology, but my main field is cognitive neuroscience, not medicine.

Edit: However, this is a Contador thread with an ongoing discussion to his lack of performance level. I don't know if anything I've written above would apply to him or his condition. That would be wild speculation of whole other level and I don't feel comfortable to link the two.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Interesting to hear this. Here in the US, we are having some of the worst pollen problems in memory. I have never seen it this bad. I'm not allergic, but even our dog is sneezing.

I understand Contador's allergies. I can't believe some people are not more sympathetic. How many of you are not allergic to having pints of blood taken out of you? Anyone?

It is quite sad that you have become so sceptical you cannot even believe that a cyclist can have pollen allergies like everyone else anymore

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

It is quite sad that you have become so sceptical you cannot even believe that a cyclist can have pollen allergies like everyone else anymore

He probably does have pollen allergies. It's just that those allergies are perfectly correlated to his allergies to blood removal.

 

[LaFlorecita]

He probably does have pollen allergies. It's just that those allergies are perfectly correlated to his allergies to blood removal.

they are?.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Interesting to hear this. Here in the US, we are having some of the worst pollen problems in memory. I have never seen it this bad. I'm not allergic, but even our dog is sneezing.

I understand Contador's allergies. I can't believe some people are not more sympathetic. How many of you are not allergic to having pints of blood taken out of you? Anyone?

He should contact Ferrari, he cured good old Tony Rominger from them pollen.

Pollen. Yes. Pollen. Rogers had the same problem today.

 

[SuperWiggo]

He's probably banking blood now.

The Dauphine was always infamous for poor performances.

True. It's a good guide to who is a doper and who is not.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/jun/10/bradley-wiggins-wins-criterium-du-dauphine