Will Contador Be Juiced Up Again Upon His Return

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Will Contador Be Juiced Up Again Upon His Return

  • NO

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  • Poll closed .
May 15, 2011
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Rollthedice said:
Clearly Tibopino does not posses the talent Bertie has.
I think they are both very talented, but yes, I guess Alberto is even more talented. :) but Tibo can still improve :)
 
May 11, 2013
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LaFlorecita said:
Rollthedice said:
Clearly Tibopino does not posses the talent Bertie has.
I think they are both very talented, but yes, I guess Alberto is even more talented. :) but Tibo can still improve :)

Highly doubt it, he has to step up big time and from what I've heard French don't dope. Maybe, since Quintana trains in Colombia and Froome in SA some training in French Guyana might help tough. As for Contador one can really hope that, same as Froome he'll be able to surpass doped performances riding clean.
 
Aug 12, 2012
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2012 VAM did Contador in 2009 in Arrate in a normal stage... so acording what we saw this year in Arrate again, he could have reached 2100 VAM in an ITT like this in 2009.

So of course Contador now is clean and then he was doped. But Evans should have been the winner of 2009 Pais Vasco if we were in this era.
 
Feb 29, 2012
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Taxus4a said:
2012 VAM did Contador in 2009 in Arrate in a normal stage... so acording what we saw this year in Arrate again, he could have reached 2100 VAM in an ITT like this in 2009.

So of course Contador now is clean and then he was doped. But Evans should have been the winner of 2009 Pais Vasco if we were in this era.

That was not 2012 VAM, the vertical difference is 395m, not 4400*0.093=409.2m as you have directly taken from Jens' blog.
 
Mar 12, 2009
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Well we have our answer then :D
Probably the avrg watts Sky will be drilling in July :p
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May 14, 2010
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Hey, since I'm not really following cycling I missed the race, but I'd like to see this on youtube. What stage should I look for to see Contador going full ***?
 
Feb 20, 2012
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Maxiton said:
Hey, since I'm not really following cycling I missed the race, but I'd like to see this on youtube. What stage should I look for to see Contador going full ***?

It's the Pais Vasco tt, stage 6. But they barely show Contador during that climb
 
May 14, 2010
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Red Rick said:
Maxiton said:
Hey, since I'm not really following cycling I missed the race, but I'd like to see this on youtube. What stage should I look for to see Contador going full ***?

It's the Pais Vasco tt, stage 6. But they barely show Contador during that climb

Okay, thanks. :) I'll check it out.
 
May 15, 2011
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CheckMyPecs said:
I don't get why Contador doesn't sue this guy for libel.
Because who cares.

While we're discussing Vayer, can anyone translate this? It's about the Dauphiné uphill prologue :p
" If Alberto has all his pans in the bottom he'll go slower, even with 6,7 watts/kg and it'll be noisy"
 
Aug 12, 2012
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Red Rick said:
Maxiton said:
Hey, since I'm not really following cycling I missed the race, but I'd like to see this on youtube. What stage should I look for to see Contador going full ***?

It's the Pais Vasco tt, stage 6. But they barely show Contador during that climb

I use to be conspirative, but no in recent times on cycling, and I have enought information for that, so I want to believe that although cameras didnt show the main favourite too much at the climb he didnt do anything illegal. Just a few people on the climb, roads were closed.

But yes, I belive, I dont want to use the same arguments lot of people here. Contador did a first intermediate time acording his quality for this kind of races.
 
Aug 12, 2012
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Why this Antoine Vayer has credibility? Contador did a great performance, slower that his time in 2009, he is a great champion and he is able to do that. The ame Froome is able to do what he do, far of the Lance or Pantani performances.

I think this man look for some publicity with this stuff.
 
May 17, 2013
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Taxus4a said:
Why this Antoine Vayer has credibility? Contador did a great performance, slower that his time in 2009, he is a great champion and he is able to do that. The ame Froome is able to do what he do, far of the Lance or Pantani performances.

I think this man look for some publicity with this stuff.
Vayer is doing is own thing now. I don't think he cares who wins, the data, as long as he gets his exposure. He got caught up by the system, hence being part of the problem, instead of part of the solution. Too bad.
 
Jan 20, 2010
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CheckMyPecs said:
I don't get why Contador doesn't sue this guy for libel.

I don't think anyone from either side of the fence takes him too seriously, all the factual points he makes get missed in the madness. The casual observer would see the Vayer spiel in it's totality and think the guy's a nut job.
 
Aug 19, 2011
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At the end of the Vuelta we will be able to reflect on the entirety of Contador's career. The man did the crime and did the time, with perhaps the most incriminating evidence being the clear split in his career performance and energy outputs, pre and post ban. Pre ban we has a ferocious time trialist that could compete for time trial victories. He would also routinely top 6 watts per kilo output on long ascents in the middle of arduous Grand Tours. Post ban his performance levels, barring an occasional stage in the Giro, never reached anything like the same level, and certainly nothing like the same consistency. He has become routinely a complete non-factor in time trials.

His failure to simply own up to doping is as disappointing as it was predictable. An admission that he could never really make once the Spanish Prime Minister of the time had made an embarrassing public announcement of support. I have little doubt that "anti doping heroes" like Dave Millar might have thought twice about owning up if their positive result had also not been for a PED, but instead for a banned substance that is a byproduct of doping. So I do not judge Alberto too harshly for choosing to live the lie.

He has fought hard since his return from the ban, even in hopeless situations. He has animated the race and gambled, often with complete futility in the era of team radios and massive team salary inequality. He has entertained striving for an impossible victory when others have been cautious and ridden defensively to hold on to a cherished top 10 finish.

He has chosen not to follow the absurd late career peaks of Valverde, Vinokourov and Horner, though this will surely have been an option for him. He has chosen instead to recognise that it is entirely natural for the body and endurance to decline after the age of 32 or 33, and that, except in the rarest of physiological circumstances, the only way to maintain or improve your level beyond that age is to dope.

On reflection, I think there is a real chance Contador was once bitten, twice shy when it came to doping and chose not to dope on his return from the ban. If so, it would be a wonderful endorsement of science behind catching him, the measures in place to catch and deter dopers in the 2008 period and also of Contador's personal character. Personal dignity perhaps being more important to him than winning at all costs.

I wish him well in his attempts to win a stage at his last Vuelta and to retire a with a degree of honour and a last little success. An honour that many of his doping peers will not have earnt.
 
Jul 27, 2010
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Fergoose said:
The man did the crime and did the time, with perhaps the most incriminating evidence being the clear split in his career performance and energy outputs, pre and post ban. Pre ban we has a ferocious time trialist that could compete for time trial victories. He would also routinely top 6 watts per kilo output on long ascents in the middle of arduous Grand Tours. Post ban his performance levels, barring an occasional stage in the Giro, never reached anything like the same level, and certainly nothing like the same consistency. He has become routinely a complete non-factor in time trials.

That's mostly true, but the question is why? Some people, like this poster, seem to assume Contador stopped doping after the CB positive, or at least cut down on any program. The problem with that view--as an explanation for his performance decline--is that he was still at his peak in 2011, when the positive was known and he was in limbo over what his fate would be. If he was afraid to dope at that point, we should have seen a performance drop off, but the 2011 Giro was arguably his most dominant GT ever. He failed to podium in the TDF that year, but given that he was coming off the Giro, then crashed several times in the early stages of that TDF, his performance was certainly consistent with what he had done in prior years. There's no reason to think he wouldn't have won the 2011 TDF if he hadn't ridden the Giro.

Even dopers who continue to dope when returning from a suspension may have trouble, at least initially, at reaching previous levels because of the long layoff, but that doesn't apply here, either, because Contador was allowed to race all through 2011, and to begin the next season in January of 2012. By the time CAS got around to suspending him, in February, he missed only about seven months of racing, which shouldn't have been that hard to overcome. In any case, while the inactivity might have explained why he wasn't quite as strong as before in the 2012 Vuelta, he should have been back to normal by the following year, and he clearly wasn't.

So what happened? Was 2013 just an off year? I'm inclined to think so, because he was clearly stronger in 2014. Maybe not at the level of 2007-11, but certainly his performance in the early season races, and in the Vuelta consolation prize after he crashed out of the TDF, was consistent with what we might expect from the dominant earlier Contador when he passed 30. I'd say the same about 2015, when he won the Giro. He wasn't dominant as in 2011, but his performance was consistent with an older version of that 2011 rider.

So I don't think Contador's decline should be attributed to stopping doping. Without making any assertions about that one way or another, I think we can say that with the exception of 2013, Contador's performance following the suspension was quite consistent with aging. In retrospect, he had almost a decade when he was good enough to win GTs. He lost 2010 and 2011 from the CAS ruling, 2013 from who knows why, 2014 he had to settle for the Vuelta, and by 2015 he was no longer strong enough to win the Tour, but could win the Giro.
 
Feb 20, 2012
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I think his peak roughly lasted from 2007 to 2014. 2015 is hard to judg due to light spring season, double and crashes, and for 2016 you can really only look at the spring again.
 
Jul 1, 2013
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Look, he ain't on same Hot sauce @ Tour since 2010 that's why his performances have been relatively poor there. Over last few years it's clear that riders can take more risks at certain races.