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Will Lance get to keep any TdF titles?

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Race Radio said:
You appear to be confused.

In Armstrong's case his criminal acts won him those titles. In Vick's case his dog fighting did nothing to help him win games.

we are talking two different things

first: criminal action (fraud) helping to win TdF
second: criminal action (fraud) as a cause to be stripped from titles

in first case i dont quite get it what has fraud to do with climbing up alpe dhuez...it was doping (the question is where did the money come from,if it was from his criminal activities,you have a point)

in second case its moral question,if organization (ASO) will stripp him...i say no because i cant imagine the media frenzy after,i say they will downplay it
 
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saganftw said:
we are talking two different things

first: criminal action (fraud) helping to win TdF
second: criminal action (fraud) as a cause to be stripped from titles

in first case i dont quite get it what has fraud to do with climbing up alpe dhuez...it was doping (the question is where did the money come from,if it was from his criminal activities,you have a point)

in second case its moral question,if organization (ASO) will stripp him...i say no because i cant imagine the media frenzy after,i say they will downplay it

You don't get what financing a doping program has to do with climbing Alpe d'Huez? You do understand why riders use EPO and transfusions don't you? To climb faster.

If you could show me how dog fighting helps a GB toss a tighter spiral I am all ears.
 
Race Radio said:
You don't get what financing a doping program has to do with climbing Alpe d'Huez? You do understand why riders use EPO and transfusions don't you? To climb faster.

i though thats what the investigation is about,to investigate where did the money come from and what were they used for

but obviously they can shutt it down because you already know the truth,do me a favour and dont pretend to be smarter than investigators,if they say LA used money to finance doping ok we can talk then,we can even strip him from his titles if ASO wont
 
saganftw said:
following your logic michael vick should be stripped from his college awards...those kind of things just doesnt happen...i dont think i can say from top of my head a criminal athlete to be stripped from his titles (marion jones???)

Did you just not see USC get stripped of one of their national titles?

As Race Radio astutely pointed out, Vick's dogfighting has nothing to do with his college wins. Armstrong's alleged fraud is directly tied to his victories.
 
frizzlefry said:
LOL, and here come the Ad Hominems, when all else fails.
Did the ASO strip Riis of his title? He admitted to DOPING in "their own race no less?"

Are you being intentionally obtuse? This is about FRAUD not simply doping. That's the difference.
Plus Riis was over the statute of limitations. Several of Lance's wins are not.

Hope this clarifies things for you.
 
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Moose McKnuckles said:
Are you being intentionally obtuse? This is about FRAUD not simply doping. That's the difference.
Plus Riis was over the statute of limitations. Several of Lance's wins are not.

Hope this clarifies things for you.

Yes, I am being intentionally obtuse. If the ASO did not throw out Riis' win for DOPING, why on earth would they throw out LA's for FRAUD? I think you are reaching here. If LA is found to have DOPED, then you may have a point.
And why you are saying all 7* of LA titles will be gone, if he is over the statute of limitations?
 
Moose McKnuckles said:
Did you just not see USC get stripped of one of their national titles?

As Race Radio astutely pointed out, Vick's dogfighting has nothing to do with his college wins. Armstrong's alleged fraud is directly tied to his victories.

i used vick as an example for criminal not being striped from his titles,despite moral questions that comes with his conviction...but you are right about USC,so i change my previous statement to " those things just doesnt happen often" :D

if LA alleged fraud is allegedly tied to his victories,i guess we ll have to wait
 
frizzlefry said:
Yes, I am being intentionally obtuse. If the ASO did not throw out Riis' win for DOPING, why on earth would they throw out LA's for FRAUD? I think you are reaching here. If LA is found to have DOPED, then you may have a point.
And why you are saying all 7* of LA titles will be gone, if he is over the statute of limitations?

I didn't say they'll all be gone. I asked the question.
In the case of defrauding the government, if Lance is found guilty, I'd say maybe the ASO would have a good cause to strip the guy of his titles*.
 
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Moose McKnuckles said:
So many of you think the ASO is going to be ok with the 7-time champion* of their key race defrauding the government?

1999-2005 would forever be known as the dark years of cycling.

Interesting to see that the fanboys don't really care if Lance committed fraud or anything, they just care that he doesn't get convicted.

Well, I guess Marion Jones never thought she'd get busted either.

I think there is the possibility, depending on whoever is in french government at the time he is convicted of fraud and the response by the french media, ASO will have to do something, whether they put the * beside those riders who have been found to have doped in their career and 2 * those who doped on the TdF...but I would like to think that ASO will be instructed to clean up its act and not just the face, but take serious measures and that means a big change in its thinking.
 
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LA's case is the perfect chance for cycling to clean up its act.

This will benefit those who suffer the effects of doping the most, the riders. As it stands, riders are paid very little in the world of professional sport for their considerable efforts and risks compared to other sports. They have to pay for their own PEDs, so the sponsors and DS's benefit the most from their winnings. They also risk huge damage to their bodies by taking uncontrolled substances over long periods of time so now is the time for the riders to form a union to put pressure on pro cycling to clean up its act for their own sake.
 
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Ryo Hazuki said:
last year when riis admitted they vacated his tour win as well so I definitely see this happening especially since aso doesn't like lance.

ASO like LA! Otherwise they wouldnot have let him start the TdF with the Landis allegations going. Patric De clerc did not like LA when he was Director of the TdF, but he was kicked out.

Riis name is still on the list of winners on the TdF website!

"1996 Bjarne RIIS 21 + prologue 198 129 3 765 95h57'16" 39,227 age32"
 
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saganftw said:
who is pro cycling? UCI?

Yep UCI most of all, but ASO* aswell, and the French/All governments to introduce better policing of major events like this years TdF, maybe a police force dedicated to doping! If the riders start in france with a union in will be able to cross eu borders.

at present the UCI thinks that bloodpassports is what the riders want, a happy omerta that allows them to dope freely, controlled by their bloodpassports, but i imagine most would rather not dope.

I bet Kim Kirchen is thinking twice about taking any more PED/transfusions.


*ASO and all major event promoters.

some cyclist out there needs to sue one of these organisations, UCI, ASO or who ever, if possible, for allowing it to continue. Kohl should, he has the inside knowleedge of it all. Maybe LA will?
 
Benotti69 said:
Yep UCI most of all, but ASO* aswell, and the French/All governments to introduce better policing of major events like this years TdF, maybe a police force dedicated to doping! If the riders start in france with a union in will be able to cross eu borders.

at present the UCI thinks that bloodpassports is what the riders want, a happy omerta that allows them to dope freely, controlled by their bloodpassports, but i imagine most would rather not dope.

I bet Kim Kirchen is thinking twice about taking any more PED/transfusions.


*ASO and all major event promoters.

some cyclist out there needs to sue one of these organisations, UCI, ASO or who ever, if possible, for allowing it to continue. Kohl should, he has the inside knowleedge of it all. Maybe LA will?

thats very bright future you are painting here but in reality as soon as cyclists become clean one or two will take advantage (even if that should mean jail) and dope to win...and if they wont get caught the whole dopingwheel will start to turn again because thats the human nature to take advantage at any costs
 
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What's funny is that this pro-ported multi-million dollar investigation into Lance Armstrong because he allegedly sold racing bikes for doping equipment will cost a lot more than the said racing bikes that were sold... As extravagant as that sounds...how much are racing bikes? Certainly not worth the millions going into this investigation?

If anything American tax dollars are being spent unwisely. They could go after Landis right now for perjury...but I'm guessing Landis made a deal with the feds so he wouldn't go to jail, and had to come up with this story. The agent leading this investigation wants to make a name for himself apparently.

Additionally, there is a city manager in Bell, CA making $800,000 a year...now that is BS...those are the people that need to go to jail. But no, let's go investigate LA instead while our own city governments rips us off...lol :cool:
 
SilentAssassin said:
Additionally, there is a city manager in Bell, CA making $800,000 a year...now that is BS...those are the people that need to go to jail. But no, let's go investigate LA instead while our own city governments rips us off...lol :cool:

thats nothing new rich and powerfull can get away with anything,thats how the government control the masses...check george carlin for more
 
A

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armstrong said:
Ullrich doped too. So it goes to the 3rd place finisher?

In other news, ASO began plans for giving the wins for the 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, and 2005 Tour de France to the first clean rider in those years...after hours and hours of discussions, they were heard to say "Oh FU*K IT!!"
 
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saganftw said:
thats nothing new rich and powerfull can get away with anything,thats how the government control the masses...check george carlin for more

Tell that to the enron ceo that got 24 years.

They are only getting away with it because no one knew about it. When people know about it, they come after you.
 
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SilentAssassin said:
What's funny is that this pro-ported multi-million dollar investigation into Lance Armstrong because he allegedly sold racing bikes for doping equipment will cost a lot more than the said racing bikes that were sold... As extravagant as that sounds...how much are racing bikes? Certainly not worth the millions going into this investigation?

If anything American tax dollars are being spent unwisely. They could go after Landis right now for perjury...but I'm guessing Landis made a deal with the feds so he wouldn't go to jail, and had to come up with this story. The agent leading this investigation wants to make a name for himself apparently.

Additionally, there is a city manager in Bell, CA making $800,000 a year...now that is BS...those are the people that need to go to jail. But no, let's go investigate LA instead while our own city governments rips us off...lol :cool:

Why is it that Armstrong's groupies incorrectly assume that this is only about Landis and selling bikes?
 
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get real

ericthesportsman6 said:
In that case, Vino won the 2003 tour. But Seriously, Moose, get over your ridiculous obsession/hatred of Lance. You never post about anything else.

Americans are a funny breed... If someone with Lance's palmares, and questionalble history, happened to be a Euro... well, the story on this forum would be much different.

It is undeniable that the top pros are 'jacked'. We all know the history of it, and to see another year of guys climbing at 30 km/h (while being anorexic and osteoporotic) only solidifies the case of institutional entrenchment of doping in cycling.

Just 'cause America's glory boy may be implicated doesn't mean that you should shut your mind to the facts.

My hope is the same as LeMond's, bring on the blood bath! How many talented kids have been shut out of their opportunity because they weren't willing to cheat?

That's the kicker - these people are cheating others out of their opportunity to persue greatness on a grand scale.

They should all be booted out, and any testing protocol should be taken out of the UCI's hands and dealt with independently. They (the UCI) have been proven to be useless... and probably complicit...
 
Originally Posted by SilentAssassin
Additionally, there is a city manager in Bell, CA making $800,000 a year...now that is BS...those are the people that need to go to jail. But no, let's go investigate LA instead while our own city governments rips us off...lol

800,000 a year to run a city or 2 million a week to ride your bike around and "raise awareness of cancer" based on cheating to win a race 7 times?
 
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SilentAssassin said:
...
They are only getting away with it because no one knew about it. When people know about it, they come after you.

A man gets mega rich cheating after 'allegedly' contacting cancer through prolonged use of a banned substance in sport then professes to be fighting it while enriching himself all the while cheating his way to winning the world's greatest annual event 7 times in a row.

Now they know about LA's doping and fraud they are going after him and so they should.
 
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JMBeaushrimp said:
Americans are a funny breed... If someone with Lance's palmares, and questionalble history, happened to be a Euro... well, the story on this forum would be much different.

It is undeniable that the top pros are 'jacked'. We all know the history of it, and to see another year of guys climbing at 30 km/h (while being anorexic and osteoporotic) only solidifies the case of institutional entrenchment of doping in cycling.

Just 'cause America's glory boy may be implicated doesn't mean that you should shut your mind to the facts.

My hope is the same as LeMond's, bring on the blood bath! How many talented kids have been shut out of their opportunity because they weren't willing to cheat?

That's the kicker - these people are cheating others out of their opportunity to persue greatness on a grand scale.

They should all be booted out, and any testing protocol should be taken out of the UCI's hands and dealt with independently. They (the UCI) have been proven to be useless... and probably complicit...

You Europeans are funny as well. Because no one in America would even care about the TDF if not for the guy you all hate so much.
 
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nice work, 'tard...

ironhead said:
Floyd Landis is a douchebag. Did you see how much the TdF was sponsored on US TV by Lance? Do you really think the American public has a stomach for this? They don't give a F if they were defrauded by LA. He brings hope to the masses wether it is BS or not. THEY DON"T CARE. A new era has begun. Move on.

I really hope the 'new era' you speak of can remove cheaters from the sport. Is that what you mean? Or do you mean that we should love and adore the people that cheat and **** over other kids that want to pursue their dream? Let's not lose the plot: these are cheaters! There are thousands of young kids that want race their bikes as hard as they can, many with undeniable talent, if they don't won't to do drugs should they be shoved out?

Suck it up, buttercup! LA and most of the pros dope, and it is nothing but cheating! Kick them out, vilify them, make them feel shame, and while you're at it get the UCI out of the testing game. Nothing but white collar mafia...