Will Lance get to keep any TdF titles?

[Race Radio]

Looks like a few of these* may be handed out

 

[hrotha]

So being convicted of Fraud in the USA will automatically convince an international governing agency UCI, ASO whatever, to declare LA's seven victories null and void? Still don't see that happening.

I don't think it's impossible, if the scandal is big enough and UCI/ASO are put in a difficult position to save their asses in the resulting PR tsunami.

Not very likely, though.

 

[frizzlefry]

It's about FRAUD, not doping. Why is it so hard for some of you to get that distinction?

If its not about doping, why would the ASO care if LA defrauded the U.S. Government? Wouldnt that be between LA and the U.S. Government? Maybe I am wrong, but I would think the most they would do is suspend his license.

 

[colwildcat]

Lance was a rider on the team. He didn't own it. If anyone is convicted of fraud, it would be the owners and/or management.

 

[ironhead]

Floyd Landis is a douchebag. Did you see how much the TdF was sponsored on US TV by Lance? Do you really think the American public has a stomach for this? They don't give a F if they were defrauded by LA. He brings hope to the masses wether it is BS or not. THEY DON"T CARE. A new era has begun. Move on.

 

[usedtobefast]

When he's indicted for FRAUD will the TdF allow him to keep any titles?
His alleged actions are far more serious than simple PED use.

Will we see the TdF move to defend the image of cycling and strip Lance of his allegedly fraudulent victories? If he's convicted in a court of law, I think the TdF will vacate the TdF victories from 1999-2005.

That will, of course, return Lemond to his rightful place as the greatest American cyclist ever.

what? right.

 

[kurtinsc]

It's not about doping, it's about FRAUD.
It was a different story with Riis and Pantani. With Armstrong, it's a criminal investigation for defrauding the government.

Would the Tour permit a convicted criminal to hold 7 of its fraudulently-obtained titles?

If it's not about doping... why would the tour take anything away? It's either about cheating to get the results on a bike or not. Why would ASO care about anything between a sponsor and a team? They aren't the UCI... they have no responsibility for the sport... just their races.

Whatever actions they take, they'll be due to evidence of what happened IN THE RACES. I don't see how they'd care about the legal issues like fraud, tax evasion or perjury. Only in how those related to the race.

 

[Hangdog98]

Due process?

Did I miss something? When was Lance found guilty of anything? Or is his trial going to be held at Guantanamo Bay?

Another thread might be: "Mr Moose McKnuckles, will you loose your house and suffer an involuntary bowel evacuation when Lance is cleared and sues you for $10,000,000?"

 

[SilentAssassin]

Did I miss something? When was Lance found guilty of anything? Or is his trial going to be held at Guantanamo Bay?

Another thread might be: "Mr Moose McKnuckles, will you loose your house and suffer an involuntary bowel evacuation when Lance is cleared and sues you for $10,000,000?"

In this forum..on a site that Lemond writes for...what do you expect?

It's Guilty until proven guilty over here...

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

So many of you think the ASO is going to be ok with the 7-time champion* of their key race defrauding the government?

1999-2005 would forever be known as the dark years of cycling.

Interesting to see that the fanboys don't really care if Lance committed fraud or anything, they just care that he doesn't get convicted.

Well, I guess Marion Jones never thought she'd get busted either.

 

[Steel4Ever]

If any conviction is simply for fraud or misappropriation, I wouldn't have thought so. Mike Tyson wasn't stripped on any of his previous victories when he was convicted of a far more serious crime.

Tyson's crime(s) had nothing to do with his sport.

pharmboy's lyin' cheatin' stealin' ways...well, that's another story...

 

[SpartacusRox]

How does committing fraud have anything to do with bike racing?

I think you are assuming he gets convicted.....I think you are delusional. You probably thought that the Governor of Illinois would get convicted.

the results to the race won't change.

I agree....he is delusional

 

[Steel4Ever]

Floyd Landis is a douchebag. Did you see how much the TdF was sponsored on US TV by Lance? Do you really think the American public has a stomach for this? They don't give a F if they were defrauded by LA. He brings hope to the masses wether it is BS or not. THEY DON"T CARE. A new era has begun. Move on.

If you are part of this "new era", I want no part of it.
Please, move on.

 

[SpartacusRox]

In this forum..on a site that Lemond writes for...what do you expect?

It's Guilty until proven guilty over here...

Haha, you have that right on the money. On here, you can dope to the eyeballs, win races and drink beer, just so long as you aren't called Lance it's fine.

If you are called Lemond they all bow down down and worship every utterance no matter how inane and bizarre.

 

[SpartacusRox]

Tyson's crime(s) had nothing to do with his sport.

pharmboy's lyin' cheatin' stealin' ways...well, that's another story...

Guess they will have to posthumously take all Anquetil's titles away too then because he was an admitted doper. Hell just take away all titles back to 1950, that way you can be pretty sure you will have due retribution and eliminate any doubt that previous winners may or may not have doped.

 

[colwildcat]

So many of you think the ASO is going to be ok with the 7-time champion* of their key race defrauding the government?

1999-2005 would forever be known as the dark years of cycling.

Interesting to see that the fanboys don't really care if Lance committed fraud or anything, they just care that he doesn't get convicted.

Well, I guess Marion Jones never thought she'd get busted either.

Here's a few questions, and I'm actually looking for answers, not looking to get sh@t on as a fanboy, etc.

- Marion Jones took steroids, which are illegal. People want Lance to go to jail pretty badly. But, unless I'm wrong, EPO, testosterone, and blood transfusions aren't illegal. Or, am I wrong on that count?
- Second, how does one rider on a team commit fraud? The company that owned the USPS team took sponsorship dollars, not Lance individually. I know it's all about hating him, but wouldn't it be the owners of the team that would be commiting fraud here, not an employee or racer? If he goes to jail for fraud, wouldn't every person on that team?

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Guess they will have to posthumously take all Anquetil's titles away too then because he was an admitted doper. Hell just take away all titles back to 1950, that way you can be pretty sure you will have due retribution and eliminate any doubt that previous winners may or may not have doped.

Was Anquetil convicted of defrauding the government too? Because that's what we're taking about. IF Lance is convicted, will he lose his titles? That's the question.

 

[colwildcat]

Was Anquetil convicted of defrauding the government too? Because that's what we're taking about. IF Lance is convicted, will he lose his titles? That's the question.

I'll ask again, how does an employee of a company get convicted for defrauding the government? Lance didn't take sponsorship dollars, his employer did. Why not the hate for Hincapie or any other rider on that team that supposedly doped? If Lance is guilty of fraud, every employee on the team down to the masseuse is guilty of fraud.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

I'll ask again, how does an employee of a company get convicted for defrauding the government? Lance didn't take sponsorship dollars, his employer did. Why not the hate for Hincapie or any other rider on that team that supposedly doped? If Lance is guilty of fraud, every employee on the team down to the masseuse is guilty of fraud.

It's all going to come down to how much ownership Lance had at the time the fraud occurred. And he has already admitted under oath that he had ownership in Tailwind. You do know that, right? Hincapie and the other riders had no ownership.

 

[9000ft]

It's about FRAUD, not doping. Why is it so hard for some of you to get that distinction?

You're getting a little ahead of yourself aren't you tiger? Zip your pants back up and wait and see what happens.

 

[S2Sturges]

Ullrich doped too. So it goes to the 3rd place finisher?

Did some digging:
1999: Zulle (2nd) Escartin (3rd)
2000: Ullrich (2nd) Beloki (3rd)
2001: Ullrich (2nd) Beloki (3rd)
2002: Beloki (2nd) Rumsas (3rd)
2003: Ullrich (2nd) Vinokurov (3rd)
2004: Kloden (2nd) Basso (3rd)
2005: Basso (2nd) Ullrich (3rd)

Judging from who has since been suspended at one tim for doping, I think one may have to go deeper than 3rd place for a clean(ish) winner

 

[indurain666]

Questions for all of you Americans: Can they let the trial take place in Texas and give him the electric chair?? j/k

I simply can't understand how some of you Americans are quite comfortable defending your hero knowing that he probably used taxpayers money (i.e. your money) to cheat on a bicycle race. Beats me...

I know all cyclists probably dope but I would be ****ed if one of them uses my taxes to do it.

 

[Roadrage]

In that case, Vino won the 2003 tour. But Seriously, Moose, get over your ridiculous obsession/hatred of Lance. You never post about anything else.

As Scribe said earlier, there are all sorts of people who will have nothing to do once Lance is retired. Moose hopefully falls into that category.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

As Scribe said earlier, there are all sorts of people who will have nothing to do once Lance is retired. Moose hopefully falls into that category.

You have no idea how wrong you are.

 

[movingtarget]

If they were going to take Armstrong's titles from him they would have to negate all of the Tour results for the past 100 years. The so called "dark years" were operating even before Armstrong was born. Anquetil even admitted to doping but still retained his trophies and results.

If Landis has no solid proof, would anyone inside a courtroom believe him after what he has already admitted. I cannot see any possible way for Armstrong to lose the court case unless somone has something up their sleeve (no pun intended) that will rock the sport on it's foundations.