Windy Mountain

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

This has been covered over, and over , and over,

Ten Dam said that the last 5km are more exposed to a head wind

If you look at the map it is clear that the cross wind do not come into effect until about 1km past CR. So 16.5 km of a 20.83km climb had a tailwind. That is about 80%

It is clear the forecasts for that day were very wrong, which is why the stage finished an hour early.

SRM data supports a tailwind

Video supports a tailwind for the vast majority of the climb

It is obvious there was a tailwind for most of the climb. I am not sure why this is still confusing to some.

It is obvious some people need some glasses or have their calculators checked. The 12% down on Iban was a miss, the now 80% tailwind for the whole climb could be turning into a pattern, that sucks for credibility issues.

SRM data doesn't support tailwind at all. Irizar's SRM is 3% off with the 'guess'timates. Underguestimated. So, was Froome's guesstimate also underguesstimated?

You've got one - sarcastic - rider twottering on tailwind, how far was he down on Froome on the Ventoux climb?

Question, how in the hell did you come up with also tailwind on the Bonascre?

 

[Netserk]

It is clear the forecasts for that day were very wrong, which is why the stage finished an hour early.

This again? The wind on Ventoux had nothing to do with the stage finishing an hour earlier than expected.

 

[sniper]

He is not "Cancelled out" by Ten Dam as he only said there was a head wind in the last 5km

5km out of 21, that's still more than 20% on my calculator.

 

[sniper]

This has been covered over, and over , and over.

Indeed it has, and that should suffice for you to be less certain of your case.
Yet you insist on "80%" and "it's obvious".

Your informant Henderson was clearly lying, by the way, even by your 80% standards.
"Tailwind up the whole climb"

 

[Von Mises]

I now watched also climb from 15,7 km to 7,5 km. If there was wind, then it was tailwind. In fact I detected 0 flags with headwind, 2 flags (2 different spots) with sidewind and easily 20-30 spots where flags where showing tailwind.

 

[Von Mises]

Indeed it has, and that should suffice for you to be less certain of your case.
Yet you insist on "80%" and "it's obvious".

Your informant Henderson was clearly lying, by the way, even by your 80% standards.
"Tailwind up the whole climb"

And whos informant was lying when you previously wrote

actual footage of the climb) suggest lack of tailwind and parts with headwind.

Now I have watched entire climb, well, at least from 15,7 to the top and I challenge you (or whoever wants a bet). Simple task, from this video footage http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOC4ahW9rP0 you will list spots/flags what show clear headwind, I will list spots/flags with tailwind. Whos list is longer, wins. Are you ready or chicken out?

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Indeed it has, and that should suffice for you to be less certain of your case.
Yet you insist on "80%" and "it's obvious".

Your informant Henderson was clearly lying, by the way, even by your 80% standards.
"Tailwind up the whole climb"

Stop trolling, RR says there was a tailwind on 80% of the climb, it must be true.

I now watched also climb from 15,7 km to 7,5 km. If there was wind, then it was tailwind. In fact I detected 0 flags with headwind, 2 flags (2 different spots) with sidewind and easily 20-30 spots where flags where showing tailwind.

Yep, great tailwind in the forest, Andy Schleck was almost blown of his bike.

//close thread, RR is right, doping stopped on Ophrah, wind directions too

 

[Race Radio]

This again? The wind on Ventoux had nothing to do with the stage finishing an hour earlier than expected.

This again? I suggest you actually read what I wrote.

 

[Netserk]

This again? I suggest you actually read what I wrote.

Do I need to post the stage map again?

 

[ScienceIsCool]

This is so silly. Human perception (measuring wind via subtle video clues) is crap. I've spent several years, recently, studying human perception of visual stimulus as part of my work responsibilities. It's generally awful when it comes to precision. I sincerely doubt anybody could pick wind direction due to a video that is in the same plane as the indicator (i.e., watching a flag).

Weather instrumentation, with fantastic precision and accuracy, say the wind was coming anywhere from north to north-west at roughly 20 km/hr. The features of the mountain could have shifted that from N-NW to a westerly wind, but that's about it.

No matter what we perceive, or would like to think, we must accept that the wind was coming from the north that day.

John Swanson

 

[The Hitch]

This again? I suggest you actually read what I wrote.

Could you clarify who the other riders were that said it was a tailwind, because you keep saying riders in the plural yet you only name henderson (and the validity of his comments can be questioned on a number of levels)

 

[burning]

Oh God. Not this again.

I don't care if he had a full blown hurricane behind him, the fact of the matter is, he shredded the entire field showing as much fatigue as a gorilla crushing an aluminium can.

Where was the Cat 5 1000km/hr windstorm helping Contador and the others?

I completely agree with you
http://www.up-shack.com/assets/up/10866121d68f8b9af608cb16b440c8b4.swf

It looks like Contador is fighting against a 100km/h headwind while froome is going along with a hurricane

 

[Race Radio]

This is so silly. Human perception (measuring wind via subtle video clues) is crap. I've spent several years, recently, studying human perception of visual stimulus as part of my work responsibilities. It's generally awful when it comes to precision. I sincerely doubt anybody could pick wind direction due to a video that is in the same plane as the indicator (i.e., watching a flag).

Weather instrumentation, with fantastic precision and accuracy, say the wind was coming anywhere from north to north-west at roughly 20 km/hr. The features of the mountain could have shifted that from N-NW to a westerly wind, but that's about it.

No matter what we perceive, or would like to think, we must accept that the wind was coming from the north that day.

John Swanson

Which is why it is good we have a SRM reading that support the fact there was a tailwind

 

[bewildered]

Henderson's account cannot be replied upon by either side of the argument. Neither side agrees that there was a tailwind all the way up, so both must agree that his version of events is incorrect and can't be relied on.

And as has been pointed out ad nauseum, he finished 32+ mins down on froome, same time as rider in 179th place out of 181 riders, so must be taken with a pinch of salt at the very least.

Whether he was being sarcastic or not he was wrong either way.

 

[sniper]

Maximus Hoggus ‏@maximus_hoggus 27 Aug

@pjakma @TheRaceRadio @Scienceofsport good information. Dan Martin said headwind on his blog. As did Ten Dam. A lot of conflicting info.

 

[thehog]

Henderson's account cannot be replied upon by either side of the argument. Neither side agrees that there was a tailwind all the way up, so both must agree that his version of events is incorrect and can't be relied on.

And as has been pointed out ad nauseum, he finished 32+ mins down on froome, same time as rider in 179th place out of 181 riders, so must be taken with a pinch of salt at the very least.

Whether he was being sarcastic or not he was wrong either way.

You mean this Greg Henderson?

 

[sittingbison]

And on that note I think this thread has run out of puff


closed

 

[sittingbison]

I have reopened this thread. Please keep on topic, and give others a chance to voice their opinions without resorting to personal attacks and insults, baiting, or ridicule.

There will be no leniency after this general warning.

cheers
bison

 

[Alphabet]

I'd like to add again that nobody has addressed why the rest of the field didn't benefit from the same gale force tailwind that Froome apparently took advantage of. Shouldn't they all have finished within 12% of Mayo, rather than Froome getting that close and the others being 20% behind?

 

[Netserk]

I'd like to add again that nobody has addressed why the rest of the field didn't benefit from the same gale force tailwind that Froome apparently took advantage of. Shouldn't they all have finished within 12% of Mayo, rather than Froome getting that close and the others being 20% behind?

Maybe there were some strong gusts that just happened to only hit Froome?

 

[Von Mises]

I'd like to add again that nobody has addressed why the rest of the field didn't benefit from the same gale force tailwind that Froome apparently took advantage of. Shouldn't they all have finished within 12% of Mayo, rather than Froome getting that close and the others being 20% behind?

Froome was strong, but his winning margin was not exceptional. Ventoux results from past:

ITT - Charly Gaul beat second fastest 31 sec, third fastest 2 min 53 sec and 10th fastest 4 min 54 sec.
Poulidor beat second fastest 6 sec, third fastest 1 min 29 sec and 10th fastest 3 min 14 sec.
Merckx beat second fastest 1 min 11 sec, third fastest 1 min 11 sec and 10th fastest 2 min 20 sec.
Thevenet beat second fastest 34 sec, third fastest 39 sec and 10th fastest 1 min 58 sec.
ITT - Bernard beat second fastest 1 min 39 sec, third fastest 1 min 51 sec and 10th fastest 4 min 18 sec.
Pantani beat second fastest 0 sec (st), third fastest 25 sec and 10th fastest 1 min 31 sec.
Armstrong beat second fastest 1 min 26 sec , third fastest 1 min 29 sec and 10th fastest 2 min 25 sec.
Schleck beat second fastest 0 sec(st) , third fastest 3 sec and 10th fastest 1 min 04 sec.
Froome beat second fastest 29 sec , third fastest 1 min 23 sec and 10th fastest 2 min 08 sec.

 

[Race Radio]

the others being 20% behind?

Did you mean 29 seconds? Quintana was only 29 seconds slower then Froome.

Is 29 seconds on an almost hour long climb the line that separates clean from dirty or did Quintana also get a benefit from the tailwind that blew most of the climb? How about the 10 riders within 2 minutes of Froome, is that too close?

 

[thehog]

I'd like to add again that nobody has addressed why the rest of the field didn't benefit from the same gale force tailwind that Froome apparently took advantage of. Shouldn't they all have finished within 12% of Mayo, rather than Froome getting that close and the others being 20% behind?

Froome was actually only 5% behind Mayo's ITT time.

5% after 220km and Mayo starting fresh just for Ventoux.

That is ah-mazing.

I agree with your synopsis. You'd think Contador with the aid of the wind could at least stayed with the leaders. But he was blown off the mountain by Froome.

Contador couldn't even keep up with Froome's in saddle acceleration. Contador was out of the saddle!

It wasn't wind at play. Something else much more sinister.

 

[sniper]

It wasn't wind at play. Something else much more sinister.

perhaps with 'tailwind' RR means the guy had wind coming out of his tail.

 

[The Hitch]

Did you mean 29 seconds? Quintana was only 29 seconds slower then Froome.

Is 29 seconds on an almost hour long climb the line that separates clean from dirty or did Quintana also get a benefit from the tailwind that blew most of the climb? How about the 10 riders within 2 minutes of Froome, is that too close?

Nairo Quintana did not out time trial everyone. It should be expected that since climbing is his ONLY talent he can put in occasional top performances. Its far more unbelievable that the guy who without a private headwind at the end of the MSM tt would have ratched up the third fastest time trial in tdf history, was a further 30 seconds in front of him.