Windy Mountain

[Dr. Maserati]

thanks.
i'd say that quote can be intertreted more liberally though.
he blew himself up at 2km from the finish. there was a headwind when he blew himself up.
that doesn't compell the conclusion that there was no headwind prior to the 2km point.

Here's how Dutch journo's assessed Ten Dam's effort on the ventoux:
"Ten Dam rode a large part of the climb with full headwind."
http://www.limburger.nl/article/20130714/SPORT02/130719112/1030

Sure, take an actual riders quote and treat it "liberally" (ie let ignore it)
But let us take the 'assessment' of a journalist instead.

As I said earlier - if there was a headwind mentioned at the latter section of the climb (and thats what riders are saying) then it means the majority of the climb had a tailwind/crosswind component.

 

[Race Radio]

https://twitter.com/ammattipyoraily/status/360095234505445376

SRM: 324.1W

CPL: 313.2W

And your conclusion is that there was a tailwind?

Yeah, I suck at math. Relay on the experts like Science in Sport

SRM comparison showed assistance,on the whole,over 40+ min of the climb

 

[Netserk]

Perhaps the trees (partly) sheltered the first half of the climb? Not so many trees left on the top, when there was a headwind....

 

[sniper]

Sure, take an actual riders quote and treat it "liberally" (ie let ignore it)
But let us take the 'assessment' of a journalist instead.

As I said earlier - if there was a headwind mentioned at the latter section of the climb (and thats what riders are saying) then it means the majority of the climb had a tailwind/crosswind component.

I'm not 'taking' any assessment, I'm just reproducing it.
and tailwind/crosswind component is not what RR is claiming. He's claiming an obvious and clear tailwind for 80% of the climb.

... other climbs might be better indications of performance

did these other climbs have "strong headwinds in the final segments" like the ventoux?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I'm not 'taking' any assessment, I'm just reproducing it.
and tailwind/crosswind component is not what RR is claiming. He's claiming an obvious and clear tailwind for 80% of the climb.


did these other climbs have "strong headwinds in the final segments" like the ventoux?

Which is the only intent of this thread - trolling another member.



Unless the route does a complete 180 it will not have a "clear" headwind and tailwind component.

But if the riders say they had a headwind for the finale (as has been quoted) then for the majority of the climb they had tailwind/crosswind.

 

[Race Radio]

I'm not 'taking' any assessment, I'm just reproducing it.
and tailwind/crosswind component is not what RR is claiming. He's claiming an obvious and clear tailwind for 80% of the climb.


did these other climbs have "strong headwinds in the final segments" like the ventoux?

It is pretty easy. If you can read a map you can see that if there is an crosswind in the last 5km then the first 16km is largely tailwind.

 

[Race Radio]

Perhaps the trees (partly) sheltered the first half of the climb? Not so many trees left on the top, when there was a headwind....

Do I need to post that map again?

 

[Netserk]

Do I need to post that map again?

The one that shows all the trees?

So during most of the stage the wind came from the north, but on the final climb it changed?

Could it be then that if it wasn't coming from the same direction during the stage, it also didn't come from the same direction during the whole climb?

 

[poupou]

Originally Posted by Netserk
https://twitter.com/ammattipyoraily/...95234505445376

SRM: 324.1W

CPL: 313.2W

And your conclusion is that there was a tailwind?

Yeah, I suck at math. Relay on the experts like Science in Sport

SRM comparison showed assistance,on the whole,over 40+ min of the climb

The experts never said what kind of assistance had Froome ! Maybe not wind but chemical or electric assistance.

 

[Netserk]

Do we really think that the wind would have a big effect in the first part of the climb compared to the last part?

 

[sniper]

It is pretty easy. If you can read a map you can see that if there is an crosswind in the last 5km then the first 16km is largely tailwind.

sorry for the nitpicking, but "16 km (out of 21) with largely tailwind" isn't the same as "80% clear/obvious tailwind" which you've claimed a couple of times.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

 

[poupou]

The one that shows all the trees?

So during most of the stage the wind came from the north, but on the final climb it changed?

Could it be then that if it wasn't coming from the same direction during the stage, it also didn't come from the same direction during the whole climb?

Wind is not the same in valley of Rhône and at high altitude. Mistral is a local wind linked to high pressure, the air has to flow so like water has to follow valleys. It's more likely that the wind was NE higher.
A second effect is linked to aerology, wind born localy by thermal activity,that kind of wind follow sunny slopes of mountains, so SW part of Ventoux at the time where TDF happened.

 

[Netserk]

Could you at least provide a quote?

 

[sniper]

Do we really think that the wind would have a big effect in the first part of the climb compared to the last part?

Vayer agrees by the way. His calling out Froome was based on the part in the forest, which he thinks provided the most reliable measurement point because there the riders were sheltered from the wind.

Ainsi sur la portion la plus fiable, car à l'abri du vent dans la forêt, entre Saint-Estève et le Châlet Reynard, Froome a été flashé à 418 watts, soit quatre de plus qu'Armstorng et Pantani.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Could you at least provide a quote?

"I have in my hand a piece of paper".

 

[Netserk]

"I have in my hand a piece of paper".

I know which way north is. I have never claimed north to be north-east.

Have I said anything that might suggest otherwise?

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Why are you so bad at Math?

The CPL forumla averages +1.9 % vs SRM





On Ventoux that day, because of the tailwind, the CPL was -3.36% vs SRM. This is a difference of over 5%......was that due to a SRM malfunction or because of the obvious tailwind?

So, now I am bad at math?

Really, I am not here to get into a urine contest, but, really.

Lets just assume your 3.36% is correct, you dont know the windconditions Irizar was riding in, but you assume it is due to tailwind. Well, you are bad in physics as well then. How does someone use more power than expected/guestimated in a tailwind situation? When riding with a tailwind one needs less power to produce a certain speed, that is what people learn in sixth grade.

Perhaps you have misintrpreted certain publishings on Ventoux, is possible, but I really cant understand your perseverence here. It is BS, first class BS. Eighty % tailwind on Ventoux? BS Race, even on the false flat it was a cross wind.

Please, find a better excuse for Froome's alien performance. This one is not working.

Also the Bonascre tailwind story is a fabrication. Why?

 

[thehog]

Last 5km a tailwind?

 

[thehog]

Froome faster than Armstrong in the headwind. That is not a good thing.

Even Froome said there was a headwind in the final.

And yes faster than Armstrong after 220km!

That's a worry.

Not much more to say on the matter.

 

[Winterfold]

This.

Hands up who's ridden Ventoux?

I've been up there in dead calm to the treeline, then nasty head-windy, then blown across the road as you hit the right hander.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

This.

Hands up who's ridden Ventoux?

I've been up there in dead calm to the treeline, then nasty head-windy, then blown across the road as you hit the right hander.

And thats not in dispute - as RR already acknowledged that on the very first page in this thread - but those details are no longer the issue of this thread.

I have been pretty clear that the last 2-3 km is very exposed to wind. As you can see by the map it would have head, cross, and tail. Ten Dam would likely have felt a lot of this as he was pulling for much of that IIRC That does not change the fact that 80% of the climb had a tailwind. There was 16-17km of tailwind. Some is less exposed, some of it is more exposed....but the vast majority of the climb had a tailwind.

Stating that fact does not mean I am an employee of SKY or am trying to protect dopers.

 

[thehog]

This.

Hands up who's ridden Ventoux?

I've been up there in dead calm to the treeline, then nasty head-windy, then blown across the road as you hit the right hander.

Me too.

In fact its so steep and brutal its more the dry heat and its relentless nature of the mountain that kills you.

I've never had a tailwind on Ventoux. Ever. It always swirls. But agree once out of the trees you can't hide.

Its in your face.

 

[sniper]

And thats not in dispute - as RR already acknowledged that on the very first page in this thread - but those details are no longer the issue of this thread.

hate to break it to you, but RR didn't acknowledge the lack of wind in the forest that winterfold speaks of. RR claims a tailwind (tail-wind) in the forest part. And headwind only for the final 2 km. So no, RR has not acknowledged any of that.

and now an eyecheck.
just look at the trees here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOC4ahW9rP0
hardly any wind at all (regardless of the direction).
RR has claimed considerable tailwind.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

hate to break it to you, but RR didn't acknowledge the lack of wind in the forest that winterfold speaks of. RR claims a tailwind (tail-wind) in the forest part. And headwind only for the final 2 km. So no, RR has not acknowledged any of that.

and now an eyecheck.
just look at the trees here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOC4ahW9rP0
no wind at all.
how does no wind at all equal a tailwind?

Which is it?

Are you now saying that there was no wind for the first part of the climb?
Please be clear.