women are right!

[skidmark]

Oh brother, here we go again.

followed by long, sensible post on how stupid all these chauvinistic arguments are

+1000. really, nothing more need be said on this topic. I don't get why people are so worked up about this.

 

[Arnout]

beats her at what? Are they both aware that they are racing each other? I know the answer. Vos can punish a huge number of men. I think you should put you and your friends claims on youtube with some name and face association. Many Dutch destroyers will take up your claim and your non training friend may find that the possession of a penis doesn't mean you are fast.

When Armstrong started I am sure he was amazed at just how astonishing Team Lycra was, Berglund,Meister and Golay bringing rides to the redline with elite studs from all disciplines,from MTB to Ironmen the speeds were very,very high on those Wednesdays.Maybe Horner will chime in about Sorrento Valley or Otay training crits, female riders were in the mix. I would take a Twigg or Furtado over your pal in a man vs woman race.

I think I should do nothing. In the end, I don't give a flying **** on who you wanna bet on. The story was just a motivation for my reasons not to watch women's cycling. There's nothing to go berserk over because it doesn't fit your street, you can choose to not believe it, we live in a free world.

And please, a general request, can we stop about this now? Like I've said I don't like talking about other non-public people on the internet.

Whether a handful of individuals enjoy women's cycling or not is not really the point, is it? I thought the question was whether women cyclists deserve the same pay as men (or at least increased relative to what it is now).

I don't think they do because women don't generate nearly as much money. Cyclists don't get paid for the amount of work they do, they get paid for how much money they can generate. (through fans, sponsors, viewers, etc.).

We can say it's a catch-22, where they can't bring in the money because they don't get the exposure, but they don't get the exposure because they don't bring in the money, but this is part of the process of developing a sport. We shouldn't create "artificial interest" by overpaying them.

Thanks for bringing in some sense

 

[theyoungest]

Thanks for bringing in some sense

Let me remind you that your own first reaction in this thread was the following:

Part of the reason I watch cycling is the extraordinariness of it and watching women cycling isn't that: I could beat them myself if I took cycling slightly seriously.

Lol, talk about introducing sense. Not rating women's cycling is one thing, but saying you could beat them all if you just tried a little is ridiculous. Especially since you're never going to do it.

 

[Arnout]

I think I've explained myself about that, have I. You don't have to agree with it, but I'm talking about my reasons and feelings.

 

[theyoungest]

It's not a matter of agreeing or not, it's the use of a nonsensical argument. "I could beat them myself... if I only tried". Yeah, sure.

Do I rate women's tennis? No, not really. Do I think I could beat them? Absolutely not.

 

[Arnout]

Well, why are men's junior races of the same length and of the same speed as women's races?

In the end, I don't know whether "I would beat them all". Based on available knowledge to me, it would not be impossible though.

Anyway, I'm done with it. I've pledged to myself to not get involved in stupid discussions on the internet a while ago and I've broken that rule already.

 

[Matthijs]

At the moment it's a bit ridiculous that Marianne Vos is by far the best sprinter, climber, puncheur, classics-specialist and CX rider (probably track+MTB as well) in the world. She's an amazing athlete, no doubt, but if there were more competition she obviously wouldn't be able to dominate in all those disciplines simultaneously.

She is not the best sprinter. Ina Yoko Teutenberg 37 year old! is probably better. She wins bunch sprints after a hard race, but not that often. She wins more the smaller bunch sprints like Boonen or Degenkolb.
If she is the best climber I doubt. Maybe last 2 seasons since she lost weight for the Giro Donne. She lost a lot of track ability in the same period and did not even start on the track (another Dutch girl was better in the omnium) on the olympics.
She is the best puncher, overall classic rider and CX and one of the best climbers/sprinters.

 

[The Hitch]

I never actually stated Piemonte didn't move nor does my post imply that. I was talking about Emilia and GP Beghelli anyway.
l.

I knew you'd try this but no, the rider arnout was talking about was uran, not quintana nor nicky sorensenl and the Italian semi classic therefore piemonte to which you directly responded that the Italian semi classic in question was not that impressive.

And it was still the very same Italian classic 2 posts later when you tried to taint it by saying that its crap now that lombardia moved.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Lol. The number of south Americans that watch south American cycling is probably smaller than the number of flems that watch cyclocross.

in vuelta tachira alone 1 million people are along the roads of san christobal circuit no cyclocross comes close to that

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Some people pretend this is a human rights issue or something. It's just preferences, just like I usually skip (most of the) the cobbled classics, because I don't care about them.

it's ridiculous indeed. we also don't have 100 meter sprint for white people. just as racist/sexist that would be as womans sport.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

But "world class rider" Carlos Betancur finished more than 2 minutes behind if I remember correctly. Henao was ninth.

All those Italian races have a rather weak field since Lombardia moved.

Anyway, I don't watch female cycling, but I don't mind if other people enjoy it.

I remember betancurt destroying your cherished gilbert though, this year

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Whether a handful of individuals enjoy women's cycling or not is not really the point, is it? I thought the question was whether women cyclists deserve the same pay as men (or at least increased relative to what it is now).

I don't think they do because women don't generate nearly as much money. Cyclists don't get paid for the amount of work they do, they get paid for how much money they can generate. (through fans, sponsors, viewers, etc.).

We can say it's a catch-22, where they can't bring in the money because they don't get the exposure, but they don't get the exposure because they don't bring in the money, but this is part of the process of developing a sport. We shouldn't create "artificial interest" by overpaying them.

exactly that. end of discussion. it's suply and demand thing. there's no demand for womans cycling so there is no supply. keep in mind womans cycling in 90s was much more professional and it bombed, because nobody cared. including the tour de france for woman

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Let me remind you that your own first reaction in this thread was the following:



Lol, talk about introducing sense. Not rating women's cycling is one thing, but saying you could beat them all if you just tried a little is ridiculous. Especially since you're never going to do it.

the point is that any amateur male could beat any pro female at any sport, would it be his interest/hobby. like I said I'd give you all my savings and posessions if you could find a woman that would beat me in mma, my HOBBY...

about woman cycling I remember well posting here 1 or 2 years ago the winner of the female pro wc itt would've finished 35th in the u23 field... painful!

 

[El Pistolero]

I remember betancurt destroying your cherished gilbert though, this year

At the Tour of Belgium? I don't really care. I mean, Phil won the WC and Betancur finished more than 2 minutes back. That's got to sting for you doesn't it?

You know, Contador also got beaten by Leipi at San Luis. I won't lose sleep over it.

I think I'm starting to understand you: world class cycling takes place at small Belgian, Colombian and Italian races. Why don't you like female cycling then?

I knew you'd try this but no, the rider arnout was talking about was uran, not quintana nor nicky sorensenl and the Italian semi classic therefore piemonte to which you directly responded that the Italian semi classic in question was not that impressive.

And it was still the very same Italian classic 2 posts later when you tried to taint it by saying that its crap now that lombardia moved.

Read greenedge's post. He was talking about all Colombians and how they did well in Italian semi-classics. Keep trying though.

And yes, Piemonte's field will be weaker now that Lombardia moved and Milano-Torino is back on the calender. That's because it now takes place a few days after the WC. It's 1+1=2 logic.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

At the Tour of Belgium? I don't really care. I mean, Phil won the WC and Betancur finished more than 2 minutes back. That's got to sting for you doesn't it?

You know, Contador also got beaten by Leipi at San Luis. I won't lose sleep over it.

I think I'm starting to understand you: world class cycling takes place at small Belgian, Colombian and Italian races. Why don't you like female cycling then?



Read greenedge's post. He was talking about all Colombians and how they did well in Italian semi-classics. Keep trying though.

And yes, Piemonte's field will be weaker now that Lombardia moved and Milano-Torino is back on the calender. That's because it now takes place a few days after the WC. It's 1+1=2 logic.

not really as you are the one having to constantly defend your riders. so it must sting you everytime someone says anything mean about gilbert, boonen, contador or any belgian

 

[El Pistolero]

not really as you are the one having to constantly defend your riders. so it must sting you everytime someone says anything mean about gilbert, boonen, contador or any belgian

That's because you keep posting stupid things about anything Belgian related ryo, you brought him up remember.

So why do you watch Colombian cycling, but not female cycling? Oscar Sevilla is still winning race after race there yet he's not even amongst Europe's 20 best climbers. So I ask you again, why don't you watch female cycling? Stop avoiding questions.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

it's ridiculous indeed. we also don't have 100 meter sprint for white people. just as racist/sexist that would be as womans sport.

I find this post funny.

 

[cineteq]

So why do you watch Colombian cycling, but not female cycling? Oscar Sevilla is still winning race after race there yet he's not even amongst Europe's 20 best climbers. So I ask you again, why don't you watch female cycling? Stop avoiding questions.

Uh oh, Ryo has been cornered. yet again.

 

[jens_attacks]

That's because you keep posting stupid things about anything Belgian related ryo, you brought him up remember.

So why do you watch Colombian cycling, but not female cycling? Oscar Sevilla is still winning race after race there yet he's not even amongst Europe's 20 best climbers. So I ask you again, why don't you watch female cycling? Stop avoiding questions.

pistolero, next time please watch some south american racing.please
see some videos, see riders physiques,see some average speeds.
in some races, the level is mid 90's europe. they fly on every race.50 km/h for hours on flat,25 km/h uphill on beast of a climbs. not women cycling exactly lol.

babyface sevilla i dare to say is in his best shape ever. you should be thankfull that's he's not allowed on europe soil because he would kick aszes like there is no tomorrow.


but the comparison colombian cycling/women cycling is straight ridiculous.

 

[The Hitch]

Read greenedge's post. He was talking about all Colombians and how they did well in Italian semi-classics. Keep trying though.
.

No, greenedge was responding to your response to Arnout.

Top 5 GT, medal at Olympics, Italian semi-classic wins, I call that quite good yes.

Anyway, last post from my side.

Boom's ride in Roubaix was more impressive than a win in an Italian semi-classic. Or his fifth place at the Worlds leaving all Colombians behind.

I agree with the Boom bit but he needs to actually podium there and all those Italian races have good finishes.
Henao did not finish that far behind Boom at the WC.

.

All those Italian races have a rather weak field since Lombardia moved.

Arnout was talking about Uran (quintana did not silver worlds not top 5 gt), you mocked the Italian semi classic with http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqFLXayD6e8, greenedge told you that it should and you then said that it should not because Lombardia moved.

Piemonte all the way, no one ever brought up emilia or gp pantani or anything else.

And yes, Piemonte's field will be weaker now that Lombardia moved and Milano-Torino is back on the calender. That's because it now takes place a few days after the WC. It's 1+1=2 logic

You argue as if the allegation maintains itself

I dont see it as 1+1 =2

The people who did Piemonte before are the ones who wanted to do Lombardy. ANd the people who do Piemonte now are the ones who do lombardy.

 

[The Hitch]

babyface sevilla i dare to say is in his best shape ever. you should be thankfull that's he's not allowed on europe soil because he would kick aszes like there is no tomorrow

Hillarious

 

[Angliru]

So is Alexander Kristoff a world class rider now?
John Gadret was fourth in the Giro by the way.

Boom's ride in Roubaix was more impressive than a win in an Italian semi-classic. Or his fifth place at the Worlds leaving all Colombians behind.

So if you're only interested in watching the highest level in a sport like Ryo says, why would you bother watching South-American racing? It's a genuine question. I don't understand lol.

If you're competing at the highest level of a sport you should be considered world class.

Boom's Worlds is more impressive than the Colombian silver in the Olympics???

 

[El Pistolero]

If you're competing at the highest level of a sport you should be considered world class.

Boom's Worlds is more impressive than the Colombian silver in the Olympics???

Obviously not. There's a hierarchy in the World Tour.

Uran has been pro in Europe for what 6 years now? Since then he won 4 races, I'm sorry, but I don't call that world class. He might become world class eventually, but hey, so can Boom or Stybar.

 

[El Pistolero]

pistolero, next time please watch some south american racing.please
see some videos, see riders physiques,see some average speeds.
in some races, the level is mid 90's europe. they fly on every race.50 km/h for hours on flat,25 km/h uphill on beast of a climbs. not women cycling exactly lol.

babyface sevilla i dare to say is in his best shape ever. you should be thankfull that's he's not allowed on europe soil because he would kick aszes like there is no tomorrow.


but the comparison colombian cycling/women cycling is straight ridiculous.

Oscar Sevilla would get his *** kicked if he ever came back to Europe. A lot of Colombian cyclists have failed in Europe for decades now and it's only recently that we're seeing a decent breed of climbers, but still nothing extraordinary with the exception of a very talented Nairo Quintana. Who's not racing in South-America anymore now is he?

Sevilla didn't even kick asses when he was doping it up in Europe, so please spare me that bull****.

If they're flying up mountains so fast why are they getting dropped by Ryder Hesjedal in the Giro?

 

[Angliru]

I would watch womens cycling if they showed it more, but its just like womens nordic: the winner wins by over a minute, while in guys someone wins by the length of a boot. Its less exciting to see the same people dominate every single race (Vos) no matter what type of race it is. Up the depth of the field and more people will watch!

Up the exposure of their events, you will see an eventual increase in participation in the sport, leading to more competitive, balanced fields. If you simply give up on the sport for women then you're sending it to it's demise. I agree with running women's events on the same day as men and televising them back to back. As LS said increase the availability of viewing and you allow the casual fan to eventually develop an emotional attachment to the participants.

Still though the demands for equal pay are ludicrous. The men get paid way more because they draw a much larger audience and in turn sponsors are willing to invest more to support the sport. They need to start treating the women's level the same as the U-23 in terms of being seen as development, except what their developing is the sport as whole and promoting the sport competitively for women. They have to create a storyline of drama that draws the audience in by featuring the biggest stars on the women's side, with maybe a history of their past events and battles.