World Championships 2024: Men's Road Race (September 29)

[Salvarani]

Is Nibali better than Froome or Contador? Of course not so no one can ever claim Remco is better than Vingegaard.

Nibali is the luckiest cyclist alive.

 

[Valv.Piti]

This. I will change my opinion if Remco beats Pogacar mano a mano in WC and Lombardia

XD

I'd argue beating him at Worlds and then having 2x Olympic and 2x World titles SIMULTANIOSLY should be more than enough even if you're not fond of him at all. What are these standards you guys are holding him to? Like what.

Not that it will happen, I think. But still clearly the 2nd best rider in the world at the moment.

 

[Peyroteo94]

XD

I'd argue beating him at Worlds and then having 2x Olympic and 2x World titles SIMULTANIOSLY should be more than enough even if you're not fond of him at all. What are these standards you guys are holding him to? Like what.

Not that it will happen, I think. But still clearly the 2nd best rider in the world at the moment.

You are counting TT. Merckx would win tons of WC doubles if WC had TT back in his days. People just love to talk about rarity but it is due to TT being a recent event. TT are not important races so I already said if he wins WC (I will exclude Lombardia) against Pogacar in a "mano a mano", I will change my opinion.

 

[Peyroteo94]

People just love to bash Vingegaard but his level is on another planet compared to Remco.

 

[Berniece]

You are counting TT. Merckx would win tons of WC doubles if WC had TT back in his days. People just love to talk about rarity but it is due to TT being a recent event. TT are not important races so I already said if he wins WC (I will exclude Lombardia) against Pogacar in a "mano a mano", I will change my opinion.

Things aren’t important because you find them so? Olympics aren’t important because Pogacar was too tired, TT’s aren’t important because Pogacar isn’t good enough to win a WC TT unless it’s a MTT.

I mean it’s obvious what you find important and why. Doesn’t mean everyone has to play the same game. Evenepoel has shown multiple times that he is a more complete rider than Vingegaard. While Vingegaard has shown multiple times he’s the better GT rider.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Is Nibali better than Froome or Contador?

Yes

 

[Peyroteo94]

Things aren’t important because you find them so? Olympics aren’t important because Pogacar was too tired, TT’s aren’t important because Pogacar isn’t good enough to win a WC TT unless it’s a MTT.

I mean it’s obvious what you find important and why. Doesn’t mean everyone has to play the same game. Evenepoel has shown multiple times that he is a more complete rider than Vingegaard. While Vingegaard has shown multiple times he’s the better GT rider.

Olympics road race are important, quote where I said road race wasn't important. TT are not, never were relevant, just now because Remco is winning. No one will ever remember Tobias Foss was world champion. Olympics and Worlds are important because of the road race.
And no, Pogacar has shown he can beat everyone in a hilly TT. Roglic was an olympic champion in a hilly course, Pogacar than him in every type of TT (probably except in Pais Vasco where he finds extra wings).

 

[Valv.Piti]

Holding the two most important titles at the same time in the Worlds and the Olympics would obviously be completely unheard of and EXTREMLELY impressive. I don't really want to comment further on your mental gymnastics

 

[Samu Cuenca]

People just love to bash

FTFY

 

[Coffeeplanter]

 

[Berniece]

Olympics road race are important, quote where I said road race wasn't important. TT are not, never were relevant, just now because Remco is winning. No one will ever remember Tobias Foss was world champion. Olympics and Worlds are important because of the road race.
And no, Pogacar has shown he can beat everyone in a hilly TT. Roglic was an olympic champion in a hilly course, Pogacar than him in every type of TT (probably except in Pais Vasco where he finds extra wings).

TT has always been important, has nothing to do with Evenepoel. Obviously with his height this is 10 times more impressive, but WC TT has always been important.

Pogacar can’t beat Evenepoel in a hilly TT unless it’s at the end of a GT where it’s more about how much you have left in the tank.

 

[jmdirt]

Even adding in his crosses, he does fewer race days than like 90% of the peloton. And certainly for someone who can often freewheel in the second half of a cross, a CX raceday is on average less taxing than a road raceday.

When I raced pro dirt, and joined composite road teams for road races/stage races, my comparisson was a typical two hour dirt race=a typical five hour road race in effort/expendature. Obviously there are some brutal road days, but my top 10 most brutal days are all dirt races. I never had the class to "freewheel" in any event outside of a local world champ though.

 

[KZD]

Olympics road race are important, quote where I said road race wasn't important. TT are not, never were relevant, just now because Remco is winning. No one will ever remember Tobias Foss was world champion. Olympics and Worlds are important because of the road race.
And no, Pogacar has shown he can beat everyone in a hilly TT. Roglic was an olympic champion in a hilly course, Pogacar than him in every type of TT (probably except in Pais Vasco where he finds extra wings).

Tobias Foss being World TT Champion is literally the only result many people know about him.

People just love to bash Vingegaard but his level is on another planet compared to Remco.

He finished this Tour 3 minutes faster than Remco, that is not being on another planet. Plus Remco is much better than Vingegaard at everything apart from climbing heavy stage races.

Returning to the topic, its a shame that Mohoric is out, without him Slovenia will have a hard time controlling the race and it will be easier for some outsiders to sneak into moves with 3/4 laps to go.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

When I raced pro dirt, and joined composite road teams for road races/stage races, my comparisson was a typical two hour dirt race=a typical five hour road race in effort/expendature. Obviously there are some brutal road days, but my top 10 most brutal days are all dirt races. I never had the class to "freewheel" in any event outside of a local world champ though.

I've never raced such things but what's most difficult aspect? What's the specificity? Going hard (i.e. Z4) most of the time or a series of brutal Z5/Z6 intervals with short recovery times?

 

[jmdirt]

I've never raced such things but what's most difficult aspect? What's the specificity? Going hard (i.e. Z4) most of the time or a series of brutal Z5/Z6 intervals with short recovery times?

Yes both, plus the more physical nature of your entire muscular/skeletal system constantly vibrating under load.

For comparison you can ride for two hours at 180 BPM on a typical road, and then on a another day do the same ona typical XC course. *Obviously a wattometer is the way to measure now, but I'm old!

 

[Peyroteo94]

FTFY

Ayuso doesn't count xD

 

[red_flanders]

People just love to bash Vingegaard but his level is on another planet compared to Remco.

They do? Don't see why that would be. Don't see anyone bashing him.

His level is above Remco's in GT's, clearly. He is not better than Remco at 1 day races...or we don't know if he is because he rarely rides them. Either way, "another planet" is hyperbole, and his level being clearly better is limited to stage races.

 

[tobydawq]

They do? Don't see why that would be. Don't see anyone bashing him.

His level is above Remco's in GT's, clearly. He is not better than Remco at 1 day races...or we don't know if he is because he rarely rides them. Either way, "another planet" is hyperbole, and his level being clearly better is limited to stage races.

Yes, we do know... Remco is insane in one-day races, Jonas has won one in his career...

 

[red_flanders]

Yes, we do know... Remco is insane in one-day races, Jonas has won one in his career...

Jonas is an incredible talent. I'll grant that if he wanted to focus on one-days. there are races he absolutely should be able to win. I'm just saying that he has the potential to be a lot more than what we've seen. But as of now, you are correct.

 

[tobydawq]

Jonas is an incredible talent. I'll grant that if he wanted to focus on one-days. there are races he absolutely should be able to win. I'm just saying that he has the potential to be a lot more than what we've seen. But as of now, you are correct.

Remco is also an incredible talent. And Jonas really doesn't seem to thrive in the chaotic environment of a one-day race where he needs to be able to quickly adapt his tactics to different racing situations. He is much more comfortable in (probably depending on) the more controlled flow of a stage race where he can rely more directly on team tactics.

I'm not saying he should have ridden with Pogacar and Remco on the Troyes stage (to be clear: he absolutely should not) but it was evident how much of a fish out of water he seemed like when they had made the gap.

And so long as he keeps avoiding one-day races, I'm not sure he will ever improve that aspect - but even if he did, there is a long way to go to even get close to Remco's level in one-day races.

 

[Invicituz]

1) Tadej Pogačar, Gold
2) Remco Evenepoel, Silver
3) Mathieu van der Poel, Bronze

Pogačar to win, and in doing so become only the third male cyclist in history, together with Eddy Merckx and Stephen Roche, to accomplish cycling's triple crown—the Giro, the Tour, and World Road Racing Championships in the same year, and prove Sean Kelly wrong when he stated, "I don't think anyone will ever achieve what Roche achieved in 1987."😉

As of 2022, Annemiek van Vleuten is the only woman to attain the female equivalent of cycling's triple crown.

 

[topcat]

I don't think anyone will achieve what Roche achieved in 1987

 

[Samu Cuenca]

I don't think anyone will achieve what Roche achieved in 1987

Are you referring to what he won, or what he made you feel/do at the time?

 

[hayneplane]

Hoping that no Mohoric will actually mean Pogacar feels the need to attack even earlier to diminish the effect of tactical plays from the likes of Belgium/Italy/Spain and goes 3/4 laps from the finish with his first attack.

 

[red_flanders]

Are you referring to what he won, or what he made you feel/do at the time?

It involved 17 supermodels on a yacht in Ibiza. Details are hazy.