World Politics

[Anonymous]

Here's a quote

not sure who said it..

"""We must close union offices, confiscate their money and put their leaders in prison. We must reduce workers salaries and take away their right to strike" ""

Oh lookey here. I've managed to upset Red and he's resorted to name calling. Typical of those who lose the debate.

I don't know who said the above quote, but I'll see your quote and raise you $100.

Who said this;

"... Meticulous attention should be paid to the special relationships and obligations of public servants to the public itself and to the government. All Government employees should realize that the process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service. It has its distinct and insurmountable limitations ... The very nature and purposes of Government make it impossible for ... officials ... to bind the employer ... The employer is the whole people, who speak by means of laws enacted by their representatives ...

"Particularly, I want to emphasize my conviction that militant tactics have no place in the functions of any organization of government employees. Upon employees in the federal service rests the obligation to serve the whole people ... This obligation is paramount ... A strike of public employees manifests nothing less than an intent ... to prevent or obstruct ... Government ... Such action, looking toward the paralysis of Government ... is unthinkable and intolerable."

Let's make it multiple choice. Was it,

1. Franklin D. Roosevelt
2. Franklin D. Roosevelt
or
3. Franklin D. Roosevelt

I'll give you two choices as I'm sure you'll still get it wrong.

 

[Anonymous]

Yes scott is most likely a drunk.. and proud of it..kinda goes with being a proud republican. being proud to be a richard..try always to be a richard..work at it their whole lives to be a richard.

Boring, boring, boring.

Surely to God you've got more than this.

 

[Anonymous]

No it wouldn't Richard.. Bush being talked about as CEO material turned political leader is the topic..Richard..

Uncle Teddy wasn't smart enough to ever be considered CEO material. But the nepotism/alcholism part still works. In fact I stand by my earlier statement.

You'll just have to deal with that.

 

[redtreviso]

Uncle Teddy wasn't smart enough to ever be considered CEO material. But the nepotism/alcholism part still works. In fact I stand by my earlier statement.

You'll just have to deal with that.

Bush just plain wasn't anything but a slacker failure drunk cokehead . He wasn't anything professional except an alcoholic..The idea of him bringing some kind of boardroom economic model into the whitehouse is just ridiculous.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Bush just plain wasn't anything but a slacker failure drunk cokehead . He wasn't anything professional except an alcoholic..The idea of him bringing some kind of boardroom economic model into the whitehouse is just ridiculous.

OK, so two worthless drunk a-holes. One may have had some deepseated reasons for his behavior and did a lot of good things in the senate. The other may have brought down the entire country in the name of corporate greed, only time will tell.

 

[auscyclefan94]

According to the several news reports I read it didn't sound like many of them were bored, actually. Quite the opposite.

Did you not get my hint of sarcasm there with the tears part? I guess Americans love that jingoistic cliched bs...

 

[rhubroma]

The problem with a certain conservative ideology, especially in America, is that it likes to relegate everything, literally everything, within the sufocating confines of a business logic. Thus the schools are to be run like the corporations, health care, that's just another business too, indeed the nation itself is another type of business on a larger scale and nothing else.

But such a shallow conception of life is just that, lowly and mean and thus the political class we get is a perfect reflection of this baseness.

Life isn't a business and neither is the nation, neither is society nor culture. If we had a political class with a more noble concept of the State and the society which makes it up, and not merely a bunch of administrators who came directly from the private business sector with their ghastly superficiality, then we'd probably have a society and a culture with somewhat higher aspirations besides consumerism and materialism. If we had a government made up, that is, of politicians and not managers, we might stand a chance of regaining some of that lost humanism this world so badly needs. Whereas it is farcical that the public likes to see in its political leadership men and women that they feel they can relate to, when in fact there is nothing it can relate to in these privileged candidates. If anything assuming the common meanness, for which at least a modicum of the grotesque exists, only provides an illusion of actually being of the people and at one with them. In reality it brings the public standard down to the lowest common denominator and only succeeds in making of democracy a throughly base and ludicurous popularism.

This has nothing to do with snobbery or, least of all, elitism, in having leaders who don't debase the institutions of the state by their classless demeanors, but rather ennoble them by their dignified comportments. Only those with inferiority-complexes would think otherwise. In other words between George W. and the Queen of England I think we should be able to find a happy middle ground, where the president doesn't have to communicate to be popular at the level of a ballpark crowd, nor in the formalities of the British court not to seem droll. However today's popularism and the invasion of the business menatality over all aspects of our lives has left little hope for a democracy that seeks to elevate the nation's cultural parameters and inspire its citizens while not making them feel uncomfortable.

But each society produces the civilization upon which its world view is founded, in this case business. And it shows.

 

[The Hitch]

Come on guys, I know this is a pretty open forum, but let's lay off the blather about drunkenness and who's going to lead the way to hell, etc.

Why plural?

There's only one poster who has on several different occasions (in months gone by as well) accused people he doesn't know of being drunks and in fact, far worse things than that.

 

[redtreviso]

Why plural?

There's only one poster who has on several different occasions (in months gone by as well) accused people he doesn't know of being drunks and in fact, far worse things than that.

that one poster still held back...way back.. haven't even started on anti teacher's union rhetoric being anti women---yet...

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Okay, how about this: Stay on topic.

 

[redtreviso]

and then again,,,it takes more than just alcohol
----------------------------------------------

Dana Lush

CNN Contributor Dana Loesch Compares Secretary Sebelius To ‘Terrorists’

"" BACHMANN: Kathleen Sebelius has a sixteen billion-dollar slush fund to do with as she will. [...] It’s another reason we have to repeal Obamacare, and another reason we have to defund it. But they decided they were smarter than all of us, and they surreptitiously or deceitfully hid that $105 billion dollars and I say give the money back.

DANA LOESCH: Absolutely. Well I hope that you are successful in negotiating. I feel like we’re negotiating, and I’m just going to say this, I feel like we’re negotiating, sort of, with, it seems like terrorists to do this to our economy, especially right now. Quite honestly it does. That you would be able to–

BACHMANN: And also we’re having a meeting today about an hour and a half from now at 5:30 eastern time with members of Congress because a lot of members didn’t even realize this or didn’t even know about this. And so we’re talking to members and we’re also talking about this concept of demanding that they give the money back before we go any further in these budget negotiations. We’ve acted in good faith, and Obama hasn’t. [...] You’re awesome Dana, thank you. ""

http://thinkprogress.org/2011/03/11/dana-loesch-terrorist

 

[Cobblestones]

OK, so two worthless drunk a-holes. One may have had some deepseated reasons for his behavior and did a lot of good things in the senate. The other may have brought down the entire country in the name of corporate greed, only time will tell.

Why only discuss presidents and senators? The new speaker also seems to have a certain fondness for the booze. Do we know of AA material among the supreme justices? Then we could bring them all together for a heck of a party.

 

[redtreviso]

don't tread on me.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Pretty much sums it up. Except there should be an image of the Koch brothers in the background handing money out to politicians, that would make it more complete.

 

[redtreviso]

She also thinks Obama is the antichrist.. republican voter? you betcha


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UmotTE-VlY

 

[redtreviso]

Pretty much sums it up. Except there should be an image of the Koch brothers in the background handing money out to politicians, that would make it more complete.

or a Koch brothers factory in the background turning out don't tread on me t shirts and dittotards handing over their money to buy them.

 

[Anonymous]

Pretty much sums it up. Except there should be an image of the Koch brothers in the background handing money out to politicians, that would make it more complete.

Really?

So the Wisconsin Gov and Legislature strip away some collective bargaining 'rights' and that equals "die union scum"?

He doesn't lay off a single govt worker, still allowing for the CB of wages and somehow the cartoon is accurate.

BTW, whom in the Wisconsin political spectrum are receiving the death threats?


WTF are the States supposed to do?

I have a good friend of mine who is a public safety employee near the city I live in. He makes $140,000 annually, will retire in two years at 50 at 90% of his highest year's income. He has about 30 weeks of vacation and sick time he will lump into his final year's pay (which will put him over $200,000), retire at 90% or $180,000, receive 3% per year COLI and have the bulk of his heathcare paid for himself and his family. BTW, this is all taxpayer guaranteed. He'll probably live 30 years or more in retirement. He'll likely receive more that $8,000,000 from his pension.

My advice to my friend was not to spend all of his money because our pension system in California will collapse at some point during his retirement as it is completely unsustainable.

So, you are correct (I guess). Just effing raise taxes (some more) and make the private sector bear this burden.

 

[redtreviso]

Really?

So the Wisconsin Gov and Legislature strip away some collective bargaining 'rights' and that equals "die union scum"?

He doesn't lay off a single govt worker, still allowing for the CB of wages and somehow the cartoon is accurate.

BTW, whom in the Wisconsin political spectrum are receiving the death threats?


WTF are the States supposed to do?

I have a good friend of mine who is a public safety employee near the city I live in. He makes $140,000 annually, will retire in two years at 50 at 90% of his highest year's income. He has about 30 weeks of vacation and sick time he will lump into his final year's pay (which will put him over $200,000), retire at 90% or $180,000, receive 3% per year COLI and have the bulk of his heathcare paid for himself and his family. BTW, this is all taxpayer guaranteed. He'll probably live 30 years or more in retirement. He'll likely receive more that $8,000,000 from his pension.

My advice to my friend was not to spend all of his money because our pension system in California will collapse at some point during his retirement as it is completely unsustainable.

So, you are correct (I guess). Just effing raise taxes (some more) and make the private sector bear this burden.

You sure know lots of details about it..You don't suppose it is entertaining to pull your chain do you?

 

[Anonymous]

You sure know lots of details about it..You don't suppose it is entertaining to pull your chain do you?

There is no chain pulling. This is how it works for public safety employees.

http://www.porac.org/3percent@50.html


Long live public employee unions.

 

[rhubroma]

Really?

So the Wisconsin Gov and Legislature strip away some collective bargaining 'rights' and that equals "die union scum"?

He doesn't lay off a single govt worker, still allowing for the CB of wages and somehow the cartoon is accurate.

BTW, whom in the Wisconsin political spectrum are receiving the death threats?


WTF are the States supposed to do?

I have a good friend of mine who is a public safety employee near the city I live in. He makes $140,000 annually, will retire in two years at 50 at 90% of his highest year's income. He has about 30 weeks of vacation and sick time he will lump into his final year's pay (which will put him over $200,000), retire at 90% or $180,000, receive 3% per year COLI and have the bulk of his heathcare paid for himself and his family. BTW, this is all taxpayer guaranteed. He'll probably live 30 years or more in retirement. He'll likely receive more that $8,000,000 from his pension.

My advice to my friend was not to spend all of his money because our pension system in California will collapse at some point during his retirement as it is completely unsustainable.

So, you are correct (I guess). Just effing raise taxes (some more) and make the private sector bear this burden.

It's unsustainable because the money isn't being spent on what it needs to be, but has been squandered on everything else.

Don't worry though, Scott SoCal, the rich don't need the state. They work it out among themselves.

PS: All the so called workers over 50 just sit around anyway drinking coffee on break and perfect being idle in their blue overalls and wasting time, while you have to work hard, not just in March, but all year long. The truth is that the so called worker does as little work as the next and merely feigns this unremitting activity that you so admire. Throughout our lives we play the part of the immensely hard-working, even work-crazy, employee who never lets up for a moment because, as a good family man, he could not permit himself to. Basically, however, they do nothing all their lives but polish their act, and in this field—not to say art—they become consummate performers. Everywhere we look work is just simulated rather than performed. Wherever we look, we see work being simulated and activity feigned by people who are in fact idling, doing nothing at all, and creating nothing but mischief instead of making themselves useful. Having donned their costumes, the ubiquitous blue overalls, they rush around all day in this costume and often even break out in a sweat, though it is a spurious sweat, generated not by work but the simulation of work.

 

[Anonymous]

It's unsustainable because the money isn't being spent on what it needs to be, but has been squandered on everything else.
Don't worry though, Scott SoCal, the rich don't need the state. They work it out among themselves.

PS: All the so called workers over 50 just sit around anyway drinking coffee on break and perfect being idle in their blue overalls and wasting time, while you have to work hard, not just in March, but all year long. The truth is that the so called worker does as little work as the next and merely feigns this unremitting activity that you so admire. Throughout our lives we play the part of the immensely hard-working, even work-crazy, employee who never lets up for a moment because, as a good family man, he could not permit himself to. Basically, however, they do nothing all their lives but polish their act, and in this field—not to say art—they become consummate performers. Everywhere we look work is just simulated rather than performed. Wherever we look, we see work being simulated and activity feigned by people who are in fact idling, doing nothing at all, and creating nothing but mischief instead of making themselves useful. Having donned their costumes, the ubiquitous blue overalls, they rush around all day in this costume and often even break out in a sweat, though it is a spurious sweat, generated not by work but the simulation of work.

Yep. We don't need roads and bridges, we just need more public employees with smoking benefits packages. That way public employee unions will have an ever larger pool of dues to buy politicians who will reward their deeds with even greater perks from the public trough.

You are describing your typical workday in the last paragraph there, aren't you? It's ok Rhub. No need to feel guilty. The world is made up of givers and takers.

 

[redtreviso]

Yep. We don't need roads and bridges, we just need more public employees with smoking benefits packages. That way public employee unions will have an ever larger pool of dues to buy politicians who will reward their deeds with even greater perks from the public trough.

You are describing your typical workday in the last paragraph there, aren't you? It's ok Rhub. No need to feel guilty. The world is made up of givers and takers.

You're just jealous that your friend gets all that while you have to conform and grovel your whole life at the altar of Ronald Reagan to keep in good graces of your inheritance.

 

[Anonymous]

You're just jealous that your friend gets all that while you have to conform and grovel your whole life at the altar of Ronald Reagan to keep in good graces of your inheritance.

Do I seem like the jealous type to you?

Hey, I think my buddy's deal is bitchin'. Just don't ask me (or any other private worker) to guarantee it when it implodes.

 

[redtreviso]

Do I seem like the jealous type to you?

Hey, I think my buddy's deal is bitchin'. Just don't ask me (or any other private worker) to guarantee it when it implodes.

You are all for that free enterprise thing.. those untenable pension agreements were made by someone..fact is they are rare..Like the bus driver that made 159k.. there were FIVE others that made around 100k.. In almost any industrial environment there are a small few that make out good due to overtime rules and generous sick leave etc. There are commercial pilots making 300k and others making 40k..Making it your political cause to crush the air travel industry because of the 300k guys is just being a Richard.. There's so much that you don't mind it is hard to hear you selectively complain.

 

[Anonymous]

You are all for that free enterprise thing.. those untenable pension agreements were made by someone..fact is they are rare..Like the bus driver that made 159k.. there were FIVE others that made around 100k.. In almost any industrial environment there are a small few that make out good due to overtime rules and generous sick leave etc. There are commercial pilots making 300k and others making 40k..Making it your political cause to crush the air travel industry because of the 300k guys is just being a Richard.. There's so much that you don't mind it is hard to hear you selectively complain.

As usual you have no concept of what you are talking about.

Warren Buffet in 2007;

Whatever pension-cost surprises are in store for shareholders down the road, these jolts will be surpassed many times over by those experienced by taxpayers. Public pension promises are huge and, in many cases, funding is woefully inadequate. Because the fuse on this time bomb is long, politicians flinch from inflicting tax pain, given that problems will only become apparent long after these officials have departed. Promises involving very early retirement – sometimes to those in their low 40s – and generous cost-of-living adjustments are easy for these officials to make. In a world where people are living longer and inflation is certain, those promises will be anything but easy to keep.

http://www.berkshirehathaway.com/letters/2007ltr.pdf

We begin this article by discussing the true economic funding of state public pension plans. Using market-based discount rates that reflect the risk profile of the pension liabilities, we calculate that the present value of the already-promised pension liabilities of the 50 U.S. states amount to $5.17 trillion, assuming that states cannot default on pension benefits that workers have already earned. Net of the $1.94 trillion in assets, these pensions are underfunded by $3.23 trillion. This “pension debt” dwarfs the states’ publicly traded debt of $0.94 trillion. We show that even before the market collapse of 2008, the system was economically severely underfunded, even though public actuarial reports presented the plans’ funding status in a more favorable light. While we take no stand regarding the optimal amount of state government debt, we do believe it is important to point out that total state debt with pension liabilities included is actually almost 4.5 times the value of outstanding state bonds.

http://www.kellogg.northwestern.edu/faculty/rauh/research/JEP_Fall2009.pdf

Joe Nation, co-author of the report and director of the graduate student practicum in public policy at Stanford, said the magnitude of the shortfall is much greater than what many economists had expected.

"It is such a gargantuan number," Nation said. "If you have a state budget general fund of $85 billion, and you are short a half a trillion dollars, it's going to be very tough to make up that shortfall."

In recent years, California Foundation for Fiscal Responsibility, which has spearheaded several pension reform measures, has estimated the shortfall for government pensions and health care benefits is about $300 billion. But foundation President Marcia Fritz said Stanford's estimate is probably more accurate because elected officials have boosted benefits while underfunding the systems for decades.
Fritz said the $535 billion shortfall estimated by the Stanford report means every household in the state is on the hook for about $36,000.

"That's how much they owe to government workers for their retirement benefits," Fritz said.

http://www.dailynews.com/news/ci_14825623

And there's more;

The PBGC: Insurer of Last Resort for Private Pension Plans

The Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation (PBGC) was established by the Employee Retirement Income Security Act of 1974 (ERISA) in response to the high-profile bankruptcy of the Studebaker Corporation and other firms during the 1960s. The PBGC receives no tax revenues, but is funded instead through mandatory insurance premiums paid by pension plan sponsors (employers), as well as investment returns and assets from pension plans taken over by the agency. When a company’s financial situation becomes so dire that it cannot afford to pay its pension obligations, the PBGC may end, or “terminate” the plan and take over the liabilities, paying out benefits up to a maximum level that is established by law and adjusted annually. For plans ended in 2009 and 2010, workers who retire at age 65 may receive a maximum pension payment of $4,500 per month, or $54,000 a year. Once a plan is terminated, employees can no longer continue to earn additional benefits. The PBGC is currently responsible for paying the pensions of nearly 1.5 million people (including abut 744,000 who have already retired) in roughly 4,000 plans that have been terminated. In addition to the “distress terminations” noted above, a healthy company may opt to discontinue its defined-benefit pension plan through a “standard termination” upon payment of all accrued benefits to covered employees and retirees. (Note that in this scenario, the company’s pension obligations must be fully funded before the plan can be terminated.)
The increasing number of distress terminations in recent years has put a large strain on the PBGC’s finances. After about a quarter-century of stability, the agency’s coffers began to take a turn for the worse about a decade ago. The PBGC went from a $9.7 billion surplus in 2000 to a
$23.3 billion deficit in 2004, a swing of $33 billion in just four years (see figure below) It recovered somewhat during the ensuing few years, shaving the deficit roughly in half to $10.7 billion in 2008 before plunging back down to a $21.1 billion deficit in 2009. The magnitude of the deficits is alarming, especially considering that the PBGC’s implicit backing by the federal government means that taxpayers could be on the hook for a bailout
similar to that of the savings and loan crisis of the 1980s.

http://reason.org/files/california_pension_crisis_reform_study.pdf


These are basics.


To say you have a clue is an insult to Richards everywhere.