World Politics

[rhubroma]

What did I say in the immediate wake of the Paris terrorist strike? The sure thing was that it was going to consideratly boost Le Pen's electoral support. Bingo.

 

[frenchfry]

Re:

What did I say in the immediate wake of the Paris terrorist strike? The sure thing was that it was going to consideratly boost Le Pen's electoral support. Bingo.

Strangely enough Hollande's approval in the polls went up 20% following the attacks, this didn't translate into election results though. The political system here is totally broken, the same old losers are recycled indefinitely and there is no political vision and no results. All the traditional parties know how to do is tax, spend, and put a maximum in their own pockets. The FN, seen as as alternative, is no better as they are all career politicians and are only interested in power and replacing the traditional parties in skimming the maximum of cash. Add to that the multiplication of political levels (municipal, agglomeration, department, region, legislature, senate, European) that result in continual elections and the same old candidates due to cumul of political mandates (I think the record is about 25) there is a sense of disgust. Quite a mess, when we are desperately in need of strong leadership.

 

[the delgados]

Re: Re:

yeah, I was just being a ****. thats my raison d'etre, aint it Glenn?

'nother caveat: not as **** ******** like David Millar my avatar tho...

Some would say this world needs ***** as a raison d'etre to save it from taking itself too seriously, the root of all evil.

Like

 

[rhubroma]

Re: Re:

What did I say in the immediate wake of the Paris terrorist strike? The sure thing was that it was going to consideratly boost Le Pen's electoral support. Bingo.

Strangely enough Hollande's approval in the polls went up 20% following the attacks, this didn't translate into election results though. The political system here is totally broken, the same old losers are recycled indefinitely and there is no political vision and no results. All the traditional parties know how to do is tax, spend, and put a maximum in their own pockets. The FN, seen as as alternative, is no better as they are all career politicians and are only interested in power and replacing the traditional parties in skimming the maximum of cash. Add to that the multiplication of political levels (municipal, agglomeration, department, region, legislature, senate, European) that result in continual elections and the same old candidates due to cumul of political mandates (I think the record is about 25) there is a sense of disgust. Quite a mess, when we are desperately in need of strong leadership.

Sounds like the situation in Italy. Taxing and spending is, of course, what governments do to administrate and provide for the public domain. The corruption, though, has made the system stagnant and fetid, while the current political class is mediocre at best, which I think is a reflection of the average level of today's consumer society.

These times call for a leadership though that is decidedly superior (and a voting public that is better educated and discerning). Unfortunately the reactionary public votes for the nationalists after such an affair, also because the other parties have little to offer, which is their big failure in the post-ideological, one-thought system age. Nationalism always thrives on fear and uncertainty. What I don't like is we could be witnessing a recrudescense of fascism under a new and contemporary form, but sinister nonetheless. And this is the fault of so much speculation in the world by a business establishment without principles, the scandalous arms industry and the radicals it has armed (and the profit made on war).

The people don't like to take a hard look at the broader picture, however, and vote with their guts prefering the "strong" leader who comes in to defend the nation - rather than vote for serious change.

 

[python]

Iraq's PM Abadi orders Air Force on alert as deadline to Turkey looms

http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2015/12/07/440707/Turkey-Iraq-Mosul-Abadi-Jaafari

i do think the official iraqi military and the pro-govt shiite militias are serious to strike the turks if they dont heed the warning...that's the worst scenario. what's the plausible one ?

several times today i have tried to cut thru the bs to approximate what may be actually happening on the ground...
unfortunately, b/c i speak neither turkish nor arabic i had to rely on various translations to the languages i do speak. it appears the turks faced with the ultimatum and an international scandal were trying to lie their way thru.
they first said the iraqi defense minister knew and invited them. when the minister denied, the turkish foreign minister deflected with red herring, 'ok, we will not bring over any additional troops'. at the press-conference with the german foreign minister in baghdad today, the iraqi premier ominously reminded, 'less thean 24 hours is left'...and now the iranian source i linked to quotes 'sources in ankara':

Sources in Ankara said Monday that Turkey has begun pulling out bulk of its troops from northern Iraq after Baghdad threatened to pursue the case in full capacity. A report on the website of the Turkish daily Hurriyet cited sources as saying that a total number of 600 troops Turkey had stationed in a camp around the Iraqi city of Mosul some 350 have been withdrawn.

wtf ?

 

[blutto]

....wtf indeed....see below for a nice summary of the most current wtf...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
" Turkey just can’t seem to help itself when it comes to escalations in the Mid-East.

First, Erdogan intentionally reignited the conflict between Ankara and the PKK in an effort to scare the public into nullifying a democratic election outcome. Then, the Turks shot down a Russian warplane near the Syrian border. Finally, in what very well might be an effort to protect Islamic State oil smuggling routes, Erdogan sent 150 troops and two dozen tanks to Bashiqa, just northeast of Mosul in a move that has infuriated Baghdad.

We discussed the troop deployment at length on Saturday in “Did Turkey Just Invade Iraq To Protect Erdogan's ISIS Oil Smuggling Routes?,” and you’re encouraged to review the analysis in its entirety, but here was our conclusion:


The backlash underscores the fact that Iraq does not want help from NATO when it comes to fighting ISIS. Iraqis generally believe the US is in bed with Islamic State and you can bet that Russia and Iran will be keen on advising Baghdad to be exceptionally assertive when it comes to expelling a highly suspicious Turkish presence near Najma.

------------------"

Cheers

 

[python]

i'll be frank. several years ago, when the islamic radicalism as (seen from the western hemisphere) was mainly exemplified by al qaeda, i viewed muslim turkey as a sort of moderate model for other muslim countries to follow/ emulate...boy, i now realize i was a bit too naive, or perhaps more accurately, uninformed, which is not easy to admit b/c i make a point of following international politics closely.

i really don't understand turkey's foreign policy. can't figure out the us patience with it (or complicity ?), the nato dangerous susceptibility (or again, perhaps a complicity) being manipulated by the turks..

i generally believe that by and large the governments (not the individual politicians !) of established nations strive to behave rationally. my assumption, regardless of their claims to human values, is based on the fact that inter-connectedness to each other via a myriad of organizations forces them into the pattern. this is not to sound utopian or naive. simply that an alternative to a cautious, rational approach - that is, irresponsible political adventurism - leads to a quick demise. in my mind, when the conflicts arise and go hot, it is because certain issues have become too emotional (say nationalism) or when the gamers misjudged the relative strength of their foe ('my gun is bigger').

plotting turkey's latest steps under erdogan lead me to consider him a dangerous adventurist. given turkey's location and the nato mindless automatism - i see a concern for all of us.

 

[Echoes]

Re: Re:

These times call for a leadership though that is decidedly superior (and a voting public that is better educated and discerning). Unfortunately the reactionary public votes for the nationalists after such an affair, also because the other parties have little to offer, which is their big failure in the post-ideological, one-thought system age. Nationalism always thrives on fear and uncertainty. What I don't like is we could be witnessing a recrudescense of fascism under a new and contemporary form, but sinister nonetheless. [...]

The people don't like to take a hard look at the broader picture, however, and vote with their guts prefering the "strong" leader who comes in to defend the nation - rather than vote for serious change.

I translate:

The common people are too stupid to vote correctly and to realize where their interests are and who would represent them at best because they are reactionary (good to notice that fact). Only the better educated and discerning people should be entitled to vote.

 

[rhubroma]

Re: Re:

These times call for a leadership though that is decidedly superior (and a voting public that is better educated and discerning). Unfortunately the reactionary public votes for the nationalists after such an affair, also because the other parties have little to offer, which is their big failure in the post-ideological, one-thought system age. Nationalism always thrives on fear and uncertainty. What I don't like is we could be witnessing a recrudescense of fascism under a new and contemporary form, but sinister nonetheless. [...]

The people don't like to take a hard look at the broader picture, however, and vote with their guts prefering the "strong" leader who comes in to defend the nation - rather than vote for serious change.

I translate:

The common people are too stupid to vote correctly and to realize where their interests are and who would represent them at best because they are reactionary (good to notice that fact). Only the better educated and discerning people should be entitled to vote.

I translate:

Echoes baseness knows now limits. Echoes has discovered politically correct, when it serves his agenda.

I know reactionaries who are well eductated, just as I know people who only have a diploma that are much more composed and discerning. So enough with your reverse snobery.

In democracy the majority wins, but that doesn't mean the outcome is necessarily very intelligent. Plebiscite outcomes never are, but this is exactly the target of Le Pen's voter base. Look at her economic plan: total exit from the Euro and everybody retires with full pensions at 60. Sure it's what the famous people like to hear, but if they actually think she will bring it to them...

 

[Echoes]

Lol a "translation" suggests you adopt the addressee's point of view, so if you say "I translate", you shouldn't start with "Echoes baseness".

But at least, that must be the first admition to political correctness I've ever seen. Yes there are "well-educated" reactionaries (like me). However "working class authoritarianism" is a well known phenomenon observed by many sociologists. Christopher Lasch summed it up all these works in his "The True & Only Heaven". That's why the Left hates the working class and always has.

I don't even have to debunk all your errors of analysis, here. The idea that the FN has boosted up is already an error. So obviously the recent attacks did not boost the FN because the FN did not get more vote than before. Next of course the FN has NEVER advocated for EU exit, which means never for Euro exit. And obviously, the masks are falling. You advocate for the euro with all its consequences it had on the relocation of our industry overseas, on mass unemployment, our inability to export because the euro has long been to expensive, etc etc. I am in favour of total euro exit, total EU exit and total NATO exit. You side the capitalists, I side the working class.

 

[rhubroma]

Lol a "translation" suggests you adopt the addressee's point of view, so if you say "I translate", you shouldn't start with "Echoes baseness".

But at least, that must be the first admition to political correctness I've ever seen. Yes there are "well-educated" reactionaries (like me). However "working class authoritarianism" is a well known phenomenon observed by many sociologists. Christopher Lasch summed it up all these works in his "The True & Only Heaven". That's why the Left hates the working class and always has.

I don't even have to debunk all your errors of analysis, here. The idea that the FN has boosted up is already an error. So obviously the recent attacks did not boost the FN because the FN did not get more vote than before. Next of course the FN has NEVER advocated for EU exit, which means never for Euro exit. And obviously, the masks are falling. You advocate for the euro with all its consequences it had on the relocation of our industry overseas, on mass unemployment, our inability to export because the euro has long been to expensive, etc etc. I am in favour of total euro exit, total EU exit and total NATO exit. You side the capitalists, I side the working class.

That's too expensive.

I'm well aware of the iter of global capitalism. Relocation of industry was long taking place before the Euro, as were the dismantling of trade barriers in the name of liberalism. A once rich West is now "poor" and full of debts and, as you would say, without moral or identity bandwidth that is incapable of putting three values together to oppose the apparent medieval thought and behavior that's now among us. This is precisely the well from which FN draws its water, as does Beppe Grillo and the Lega Nord in Italy, Farnge in Britain - so you're in good company - while at the fringe looms the various Podemos and then there are the pirates. The system is based on consensus, however, which only knows how to plan for the next elections. But in a tripartite system FN's consensus has grown by 6%, which is not unsubstantial. Come on, Marine's platform has always been staunchly anti-EU. Unfortunately we no longer even have the illusion of a politics that unites, but only one that divides and FN incarnates this for all who don't share its nationalist ideas.

Your concept of "working class authoritarianism" only has validity to (losing) monarchists like yourself, which is eminently hypocritical. Yours is authoritarianism tout court and consequently fascist. And this is where your siding with the working class, as you view it, is a perversion of its very struggle for emancipation. No, Ehcoes, you don't side with the working class, but a return of Manzoni's Innominato and clerical reign over the serfs.

The problem today, of course, is the distance between ordinary people and the circle of the power-elite, which has always been huge (as a monarchist, I'm sure you are well aware of this fact ); but democracy got us used to thinking that that distance was less scandalous than in the past. In circumstances like these - for example, working class savers without any personal responsibility being bled by taxation and finance to save the banks - one finds himself before the archaic and brutal distribution of power that you, as a monarchist, stand for: very few who decide, very many who suffer. Notorious populism is borne precisely from this dizzy impotence; at once by the failure of politics (especially the left) as representative of the masses, mediator between who is in the know and who isn't and between the haves and the have-nots.

It is thus obvious that in the place beside the ruined savers, stand the populists. Of the rest we are loosing all traces, like France teaches us.

In any case, come to think of it, wasn't it Europe that expanded its market? That looked for resources and manpower that it couldn't supply beyond its borders. It really shouldn't complain if such has backfired now.

 

[blutto]

Re: Re:

These times call for a leadership though that is decidedly superior (and a voting public that is better educated and discerning). Unfortunately the reactionary public votes for the nationalists after such an affair, also because the other parties have little to offer, which is their big failure in the post-ideological, one-thought system age. Nationalism always thrives on fear and uncertainty. What I don't like is we could be witnessing a recrudescense of fascism under a new and contemporary form, but sinister nonetheless. [...]

The people don't like to take a hard look at the broader picture, however, and vote with their guts prefering the "strong" leader who comes in to defend the nation - rather than vote for serious change.

I translate:

The common people are too stupid to vote correctly and to realize where their interests are and who would represent them at best because they are reactionary (good to notice that fact). Only the better educated and discerning people should be entitled to vote.

....find below a post from the US Politics thread....and do remember Trump is real popular among the, uhhh, general populace...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Trump is the perfect hoax.
Everything he says feels like a caricature of what some redneck republican would say, and still he sails so high in the polls. It must be the 'moderate' republican's worst fear come through: discovering that the republican voters are, in reality, even more stupid, close-minded and xenophobic than the worst clichés portray them to be."

Cheers

 

[python]

in view of the current turkish foreign policy, the following dated (2 yo ) article is very interesting...it was written by stratfor. they specialize in forecasting based on own intelligence and boast international diplomatic elites for clients.

In Turkey, an Inevitable Shift in Foreign Policy
https://www.stratfor.com/analysis/turkey-inevitable-shift-foreign-policy

in summary, the article analyzed turkey's constrains, including listing the friction points with the us, iraq, kurds, syria, iran. all, but russia. it also contains a very educational 3 min clip on kurdish oil that drives turkey. the article predicted...an 'inevitable shift' towards...moderation.

as we now know, it went the opposite way - hardening to the point of naked adventurism. so much for a paid political intelligence that missed entirely a major variable..

 

[Irondan]

Re: Re:

....find below a post from the US Politics thread....and do remember Trump is real popular among the, uhhh, general populace...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Trump is the perfect hoax.
Everything he says feels like a caricature of what some redneck republican would say, and still he sails so high in the polls. It must be the 'moderate' republican's worst fear come through: discovering that the republican voters are, in reality, even more stupid, close-minded and xenophobic than the worst clichés portray them to be."

Cheers

If that idiot gets elected President, I'm moving...

 

[Amsterhammer]

Re: Re:

If that idiot gets elected President, I'm moving...

The number of times I have heard that from friends. My spare room will be triple booked if the unthinkable should happen.

 

[the delgados]

Re: Re:

....find below a post from the US Politics thread....and do remember Trump is real popular among the, uhhh, general populace...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Trump is the perfect hoax.
Everything he says feels like a caricature of what some redneck republican would say, and still he sails so high in the polls. It must be the 'moderate' republican's worst fear come through: discovering that the republican voters are, in reality, even more stupid, close-minded and xenophobic than the worst clichés portray them to be."

Cheers

If that idiot gets elected President, I'm moving...

Then you would be a victim of his foreign policies.
Best to have rational minds fight ignorance and bigotry from within.

 

[Irondan]

Re: Re:

....find below a post from the US Politics thread....and do remember Trump is real popular among the, uhhh, general populace...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Trump is the perfect hoax.
Everything he says feels like a caricature of what some redneck republican would say, and still he sails so high in the polls. It must be the 'moderate' republican's worst fear come through: discovering that the republican voters are, in reality, even more stupid, close-minded and xenophobic than the worst clichés portray them to be."

Cheers

If that idiot gets elected President, I'm moving...

Then you would be a victim of his foreign policies.
Best to have rational minds fight ignorance and bigotry from within.

Good point....

 

[movingtarget]

Lol a "translation" suggests you adopt the addressee's point of view, so if you say "I translate", you shouldn't start with "Echoes baseness".

But at least, that must be the first admition to political correctness I've ever seen. Yes there are "well-educated" reactionaries (like me). However "working class authoritarianism" is a well known phenomenon observed by many sociologists. Christopher Lasch summed it up all these works in his "The True & Only Heaven". That's why the Left hates the working class and always has.

I don't even have to debunk all your errors of analysis, here. The idea that the FN has boosted up is already an error. So obviously the recent attacks did not boost the FN because the FN did not get more vote than before. Next of course the FN has NEVER advocated for EU exit, which means never for Euro exit. And obviously, the masks are falling. You advocate for the euro with all its consequences it had on the relocation of our industry overseas, on mass unemployment, our inability to export because the euro has long been to expensive, etc etc. I am in favour of total euro exit, total EU exit and total NATO exit. You side the capitalists, I side the working class.

I think full pensions at 60 in any western nation is very optimistic. Some countries already have 65 or 67. Aging populations and longer lives will be an ongoing problem for budgets and this also means more money needed for health care and aged care facilities as many rely on government subsidies. Japan is already running into issues, falling birth rates, shrinking labor forces, no immigration it's a recipe for disaster. As for the EU, the immigration issues are already adding to the splits that were already showing. UK will probably leave. Greece who knows ? How this would effect the world economy if there were major changes remains to be seen.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Just read something where Putin says or makes reference to Nukes against ISIL. Or more to the point that his missiles from the Mediterranean submarines can be armed with nukes.

Found the link.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/625465/Islamic-State-Russia-Vladimir-Putin-threatens-bomb-ISIS-nuclear-weapons

 

[python]

glenn, the source you linked to is likely hyping.

here's how the independent source i often use translated vlad:
http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/russia-launches-first-syria-strikes-submarine-minister-856521507

President Vladimir Putin said on Tuesday that the Calibre cruise missiles launched from the submarine could be equipped with nuclear warheads but said he hoped they would "never be needed in the fight against terrorism

the real meaning of the russian sub shooting the criuse missile (and its nuclear capability) had zero to do with isis. they could destroy the same targets at 1/10 the cost with their su-24 stationed in syria...

it was, just like those cruise missiles they have been shooting from the caspian, a message to nato about russia's increased capability.

in a more specific purely military sense, it was a demonstration that not only their giant nuclear subs can shoot the cruise missile submerged (a fact long known), but also their small (much quieter and stealthier), diesel-electric boats as well (a quality only the us could boast up to date). the nuclear capability is more posturing in the same direction...and the message was received (from the same source):

Speaking in Washington, Pentagon spokesman Peter Cook said: "We were given advanced notice that they would be carrying out strikes." He added: "We appreciate that," particularly because the Kremlin was not required to do so under a memorandum of understanding signed by Russia and the US

wonder why the russians 'over-communicated ? they knew too well that the syrian sky is filled with the us airborne 'eyes' and 'ears' (in addition to the space-based intel). they were eager to show off the accuracy of strikes (of course holding back other capability like anti-missile maneuverability, terrain radar signatures etc)

 

[Amsterhammer]

Re:

Just read something where Putin says or makes reference to Nukes against ISIL. Or more to the point that his missiles from the Mediterranean submarines can be armed with nukes.

Found the link.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/625465/Islamic-State-Russia-Vladimir-Putin-threatens-bomb-ISIS-nuclear-weapons

Glenn, the Express, aka the Daily Getsmuchworse, is not a reliable source, and not only because it's a right wing rag.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Re:

glenn, the source you linked to is likely hyping.

here's how the independent source i often use translated vlad:
http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/russia-launches-first-syria-strikes-submarine-minister-856521507

President Vladimir Putin said on Tuesday that the Calibre cruise missiles launched from the submarine could be equipped with nuclear warheads but said he hoped they would "never be needed in the fight against terrorism

the real meaning of the russian sub shooting the criuse missile (and its nuclear capability) had zero to do with isis. they could destroy the same targets at 1/10 the cost with their su-24 stationed in syria...

it was, just like those cruise missiles they have been shooting from the caspian, a message to nato about russia's increased capability.

in a more specific purely military sense, it was a demonstration that not only their giant nuclear subs can shoot the cruise missile submerged (a fact long known), but also their small (much quieter and stealthier), diesel-electric boats as well (a quality only the us could boast up to date). the nuclear capability is more posturing in the same direction...and the message was received (from the same source):

Speaking in Washington, Pentagon spokesman Peter Cook said: "We were given advanced notice that they would be carrying out strikes." He added: "We appreciate that," particularly because the Kremlin was not required to do so under a memorandum of understanding signed by Russia and the US

wonder why the russians 'over-communicated ? they knew too well that the syrian sky is filled with the us airborne 'eyes' and 'ears' (in addition to the space-based intel). they were eager to show off the accuracy of strikes (of course holding back other capability like anti-missile maneuverability, terrain radar signatures etc)

Agree.

I just thought it was interesting anyone (news agent) would print that up.

The Russian capability is also interesting. Forever the West or should I say the USA thinking or reporting is slanted that the Russian military is outdated and antiquated. We should pay attention to what progress they are making. Russia not being a player in geopolitical issues around the world has actually (in my opinion) hurt the USA. We get into the mode of over policing the worlds problems.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Re: Re:

Just read something where Putin says or makes reference to Nukes against ISIL. Or more to the point that his missiles from the Mediterranean submarines can be armed with nukes.

Found the link.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/625465/Islamic-State-Russia-Vladimir-Putin-threatens-bomb-ISIS-nuclear-weapons

Glenn, the Express, aka the Daily Getsmuchworse, is not a reliable source, and not only because it's a right wing rag.

Understand that. Like I said in my reply to python.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Re: Re:

....find below a post from the US Politics thread....and do remember Trump is real popular among the, uhhh, general populace...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Trump is the perfect hoax.
Everything he says feels like a caricature of what some redneck republican would say, and still he sails so high in the polls. It must be the 'moderate' republican's worst fear come through: discovering that the republican voters are, in reality, even more stupid, close-minded and xenophobic than the worst clichés portray them to be."

Cheers

If that idiot gets elected President, I'm moving...

Don't worry, he'll be impeached before ya know it. IF he gets elected, which, after alienating 6-7 major voting blocks, he won't be.

 

[Echoes]

I'm well aware of the iter of global capitalism. Relocation of industry was long taking place before the Euro, as were the dismantling of trade barriers in the name of liberalism.

So what, it took place before (long? 10 years before) the euro. Globalization started with the Uruguay Round and the GATT agreement in the early nineties, completed by the Maastricht Treaty, which also officialized the common currency.

Article 63

(ex Article 56 TEC)

1. Within the framework of the provisions set out in this Chapter, all restrictions on the movement of capital between Member States and between Member States and third countries shall be prohibited.

2. Within the framework of the provisions set out in this Chapter, all restrictions on payments between Member States and between Member States and third countries shall be prohibited.

So yes it has to do with the EU. But more importantly the euro having been a strong currency, very expansive compared to the dollar, for many years (and still is too expansive today) prevents our industry to export (except a few German factories who have a close to monopoly situation in several sectors) because our industry is no longer competitive on the Asian market or so. Hence the industry relocates. Strong euro was a relocation premium, that's not Echoes speaking it's Louis Gallois, manager of Airbus.

This is precisely the well from which FN draws its water, as does Beppe Grillo and the Lega Nord in Italy, Farnge in Britain - so you're in good company - while at the fringe looms the various Podemos and then there are the pirates. The system is based on consensus, however, which only knows how to plan for the next elections. But in a tripartite system FN's consensus has grown by 6%, which is not unsubstantial. Come on, Marine's platform has always been staunchly anti-EU.

What a salad! The usual left-wing trick. You are anti-EU, so you are pro-FN while neither the FN, nor the Lega Nord (far from that), nor Beppe Grillo, nor Podemos, nor the Pirates have EVER EVER EVER EVER and EVER planned to EXIT the EU. NEVER !! Only Farage wants out but still to stay in NATO, so now even with him, I am in bad company. Besides, he wants a veil ban towards Muslim women, he should please you. I've read all of the FN's "statements of principles" at every elections since Marine became its president. This does not exist. So no, her platform has never been anti-EU. Even on the euro, she's wishy-washy. On her "statement of principles" for the 2012 presidential elections, the word "euro" did not even get a mention. It's logical. The only legal way out of the Eurozone is getting out of the whole EU by art.50 of the TFEU but since Marine never planned to leave the EU, how can she plan a Eurozone exit? It's impossible. That means she's deceiving her voters. That means she's closer to you, the Europeist than to me. The dilemma is binary. You stay or you get out (of the EU). I want to get out. All parties from far-right to far-left want to stay, just like you.

Oh and no, the FN has not grown. Statisticians have long noticed that the FN was unable to exceed a threshold of 14% of subscribers. They still did not manage that. They are slightly above 13%. They only won because of the 52% abstention (+ blank or null votes)[which is a very good thing, I also abstain most of the time]. But in absolute figures, they have not won any more voters.

Your concept of "working class authoritarianism" only has validity to (losing) monarchists like yourself, which is eminently hypocritical.

Lol Seymour Martin Lipset, a monarchist? He was a socialist reformed to "centrist".

Christopher Lasch in "The Revolt of the Elites" argued:

The masses today have lost interest in revolution. Indeed, their political instincts are demonstrably more conservative than those of their self-appointed spokesmen and would-be liberators. It is the working and lower middle classes, after all, who favor limits on abortion, cling to the two-parent family as a source of stability in a turbulent world, resist experiments with ‘alternative lifestyles,’ and harbor deep reservations about affirmative action and other ventures in large-scale social engineering.

Deal with it. And don't claim Lasch was a monarchist because Blutto should then claim you are making him "roll in his grave." But he won't say that, don't worry. Because you are a cool leftist.

Yours is authoritarianism tout court and consequently fascist.

Yes, authoritarianism is a synonym for fascism as anyone knows.

And this is where your siding with the working class, as you view it, is a perversion of its very struggle for emancipation. No, Ehcoes, you don't side with the working class, but a return of Manzoni's Innominato and clerical reign over the serfs.

Yes, serfdom was abolished by the Enlightenment and by the 1789 revolution as anyone knows. The working class was a lot better protected by the Old Regime than by their successors. History should tell. The worst century for the working class in the 19th one. Every historian knows that.

....find below a post from the US Politics thread....and do remember Trump is real popular among the, uhhh, general populace...

Trump is not popular among the general populace because the general populace no longer votes in the US. How great was the abstention rate at the last elections? Over 60% I think. But compared to Democrats, the Republicans are much closer to what the working class expects from a US President. You only need to read the election maps at every elections to understand. Democrats gets the Rich coastal states (Atlantic or Pacific), Republicans get the hard-working heartland.