World Politics

[Robert5091]

https://slate.com/news-and-politics...-climate-change-was-real-and-devastating.html

A recently uncovered cache of Royal Dutch Shell documents, some four decades old, shows the oil company knew full well the damage it was doing to the environment and, with chilling accuracy, foresaw the coming problems associated with climate change. One particular document, a 1988 report titled “The Greenhouse Effect” warned that the effects of climate change would be detectable by late in the 20th or early 21st century, and that “y the time global warming becomes detectable it could be too late to take effective countermeasures to reduce the effects or even to stabilize the situation.”

The report, which was compiled by Shell’s Greenhouse Effect Working Group, was based on a 1986 study, but the company commissioned similar reports as early as 1981. According to Shell’s calculations, by 1981, oil was the cause of 44 percent of global carbon-dioxide emissions, 38 percent from coal, and 17 percent from natural gas. It also pegged the company’s own, individual contribution of CO2 at 4 percent of global emissions.

“Shell’s working group knew three decades ago that climate change was real and formidable, warning that it would affect living standards and food supplies and have social, economic and political consequences,” the Washington Post notes. “The documents contrast with Shell’s public stance on climate change during the 1990s, when the company was a member of the Global Climate Coalition, [which] raised doubts about the science of climate change and opposed the Kyoto Protocol, the global agreement reached in 1997 to fight climate change.”

The report was uncovered by journalist Dutch Jelmer Mommers and published in the newspaper De Correspondent.

 

[red_flanders]

Re: Re:

He said he didn't know anything about it when he was first asked and that's obvious in the interview there was no certainty in his response.
He turned against it very quickly whilst the mainstream supported it long before the WMD lie was exposed.
Meanwhile your idols Obama and Clinton created multiple new wars. Who fact checks your 'factcheck' site?

Who's stopping anyone from doing so?

Some here are taking factcheck and snopes as final word. They are not law, they need to be fact checked like anything else and if that can't be done then we always have circumstantial evidence and critical thought to make a judgement as to what is likely ***, what is slanted, which is selective and partisan spin etc.

So when someone does this, feel free to make the case why the fact checking they cite is incorrect. Unsubstantiated, blanket attacks on fact-checking are not only dumb, but erode rational thought.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Re: Re:

The conspiracy theory is coming from your government not me. I'm just calling out their obvious *** and I'm not the only one. I think it plays well in the deranged mind of your prime minister to scare the public as much as possible about a non-existent threat. (Whilst ignoring a genuine one)

But Lupi, aren't you forgetting someone?

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/26/world/europe/trump-russia-diplomats-expulsion.html

Britain are supposed to be an ally. The US followed their advisory.
How does this jive with the left's "Trump is Putin's puppet" narrative?

Interesting that Trump feels free to comment on most things in Twitter except Putin.........the silence has been deafening.

And his girlfriends, hasn’t said much about that...he said he knew nothing of the $130,000...then why was he named as part of a nondisclosure agreement? Stay quiet about what. Donnie is a slug.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

The conspiracy theory is coming from your government not me. I'm just calling out their obvious *** and I'm not the only one. I think it plays well in the deranged mind of your prime minister to scare the public as much as possible about a non-existent threat. (Whilst ignoring a genuine one)

But Lupi, aren't you forgetting someone?

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/26/world/europe/trump-russia-diplomats-expulsion.html

Britain are supposed to be an ally. The US followed their advisory.
How does this jive with the left's "Trump is Putin's puppet" narrative?

Interesting that Trump feels free to comment on most things in Twitter except Putin.........the silence has been deafening.

And his girlfriends, hasn’t said much about that...he said he knew nothing of the $130,000...then why was he named as part of a nondisclosure agreement? Stay quiet about what. Donnie is a slug.

I thought there were strict rules about non disclosure agreements ? The whole idea of the payout is to silence the other party.

 

[Lupi33x]

Re: Re:

He said he didn't know anything about it when he was first asked and that's obvious in the interview there was no certainty in his response.
He turned against it very quickly whilst the mainstream supported it long before the WMD lie was exposed.
Meanwhile your idols Obama and Clinton created multiple new wars. Who fact checks your 'factcheck' site?

Who's stopping anyone from doing so?

Some here are taking factcheck and snopes as final word. They are not law, they need to be fact checked like anything else and if that can't be done then we always have circumstantial evidence and critical thought to make a judgement as to what is likely ***, what is slanted, which is selective and partisan spin etc.

So when someone does this, feel free to make the case why the fact checking they cite is incorrect. Unsubstantiated, blanket attacks on fact-checking are not only dumb, but erode rational thought.

On the contrary, 'fact checking' sites erode all critical thought.

 

[Unchained]

Lupi I think you may want to reach out to flat earth types..we know how microwave ovens work and that some blood thinning meds help with heart conditions..
you are making everyday a comedic masterpiece but.. are you just doing this for effect?
Do you need to be in the room of each event for it to be",fact"?
There are some things you have to accept in order to get or stay sane.. you better start with some easy world wide things like bread rising..
the cycle is small and would appear easy for you to verify all the components.. from the flour and other ingredients to the person and the process that make the end result bread... magic!
Terror is waaaaay over your head.. you get caught up on if the people were actually killed.. so you really never make it out of the gate in the discussion..
With limited resources how could you "reliably" verify that Eagles of Death Metal were"really" there.. and those folks working at Charlie Hebdo.. I am sure you were in a whirlwind wondering if it was all staged using actors.. and which political party played out some critical high drama?
These things are happening.. if you have ever pondered any Holocaust denial.. again start with bread and work your way up.. you need to be able to wrap your head around basic physical and scientific realities to progress..
each time you demand that some one show you a video..or some other physical, touchable proof to prove that an event or person or condition exists in our physical reality.. it's kind of scary..
Like Holocaust denial enthusiasm or Sandy Hook sceptics or people who didn't see dead bodies on London bridge.. so it didn't happen..
That is only millimeters less scary than the people who committed the actual crimes..
Are fact checking sites 100%..no.. but pick a place to start.. because if square one is that all fact checking sites are 100% inaccurate.. you are filling your boat with sand my friend..
* And pleeeeeze don't start typing about everyone having electric motors in the seat tube of the bike..stay around here were Brexit, Steve Bannon, Trump and Nicky Sarkozy take turns being rodeo clowns.. I wish Boris Johnson was Trump's vice president.. what a dream team

 

[Robert5091]

I wish Boris Johnson was Trump's vice president.. what a dream team

Not as scary as having Pence.

 

[Robert5091]

April 9, 2003 - 15 years ago -

http://www.rudaw.net/english/middleeast/iraq/06042018

Mahmoud Othman, a 65-year-old Kurdish politician who served as a member of Iraq's transitional leadership after Saddam's fall, dreamed of a better tomorrow.

But if "the Americans had a plan to overthrow Saddam Hussein, they had no agenda for post-Saddam", said Othman, who had been a Kurdish Peshmerga fighter since the age of 18.

One tragedy in NYC lead to another in Iraq.

 

[Lupi33x]

Re:

April 9, 2003 - 15 years ago -

http://www.rudaw.net/english/middleeast/iraq/06042018

Mahmoud Othman, a 65-year-old Kurdish politician who served as a member of Iraq's transitional leadership after Saddam's fall, dreamed of a better tomorrow.

But if "the Americans had a plan to overthrow Saddam Hussein, they had no agenda for post-Saddam", said Othman, who had been a Kurdish Peshmerga fighter since the age of 18.

One tragedy in NYC lead to another in Iraq.

no it didn't

Iraq's overthrow was planned years before, as was Libya's and Syria's. But you don't talk about those because Obama was responsible.

 

[macbindle]

From a right-wing UK newspaper:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/04/obama-vetoed-assad-overthrow-plans/

Facts and evidence can be very inconvenient, can't they Lupi33x.

Obama's legacy on Syria is that he didn't do anything.

 

[Lupi33x]

Re:

From a right-wing UK newspaper:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/04/obama-vetoed-assad-overthrow-plans/

Facts and evidence can be very inconvenient, can't they Lupi33x.

Obama's legacy on Syria is that he didn't do anything.

He funded, trained and armed Syrian terrorists. (ISIS/Al Qaeda)
He couldn't get UN backing to bomb Syria with the military and provide air support to ISIS because the Ghouta attack was exposed as not coming from the Syrian Government.

Why should I care what a 'right-wing' newspaper says?

Wanna talk about the drone war in Yemen that Obama started too?

 

[macbindle]

Why wouldnt I? I'm not a supporter of US terrorism anywhere in the world.

You are back to your binary zero sum thinking again.

 

[Lupi33x]

Re:

Why wouldnt I? I'm not a supporter of US terrorism anywhere in the world.

You are back to your binary zero sum thinking again.

Because you were so quick to defend Obama.

 

[macbindle]

Correcting a factual error does not equal a defence of anything or anyone.

E.g. Lupi: "Hitler invaded Spain"
MacB: "No he didn't."
Lupi: "Nazi!!"

 

[Robert5091]

https://www.smh.com.au/business/inv...he-us-but-will-it-use-it-20180407-p4z89u.html

China has little to gain and much to lose from irate and impulsive gestures. Its deep interests are better served by seeking out the high ground - hoping the world will quietly forgive two decades of technology piracy - and biding its time as Mr Trump destroys American credibility in Asia.

The US president is a strategic gift if handled carefully. He is so ignorant and fundamentally shallow that he might even be induced to hand over Taiwan in exchange for a face-saving frippery on trade.

That truly would be the "art of the deal". For China.

 

[Robert5091]

Nothing like a good oil spill to boost the economy, and BP knows a thing or two about spills.

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/fed...boost-to-local-economies-20180406-p4z867.html

Coastal towns would benefit from an oil spill in the pristine Great Australian Bight because the clean up would boost their economies, energy giant BP has claimed as part of its controversial bid to drill in the sensitive marine zone.

BP, which has since withdrawn the drilling plan, also told a federal government agency that a diesel spill would be considered “socially acceptable”.

BP made the statements in an environment plan submitted to the National Offshore Petroleum Safety and Environmental Management Authority in March 2016.

The company had been seeking to drill two wells off the South Australian coast, raising fears of an environmental disaster akin to BP's 2010 Deepwater Horizon oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico.

 

[Lupi33x]

Re:

Correcting a factual error does not equal a defence of anything or anyone.

E.g. Lupi: "Hitler invaded Spain"
MacB: "No he didn't."
Lupi: "Nazi!!"

...but there was no factual error, other than the one you made

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Re: Re:

From a right-wing UK newspaper:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/04/obama-vetoed-assad-overthrow-plans/

Facts and evidence can be very inconvenient, can't they Lupi33x.

Obama's legacy on Syria is that he didn't do anything.

He funded, trained and armed Syrian terrorists. (ISIS/Al Qaeda)
He couldn't get UN backing to bomb Syria with the military and provide air support to ISIS because the Ghouta attack was exposed as not coming from the Syrian Government.

Why should I care what a 'right-wing' newspaper says?

Wanna talk about the drone war in Yemen that Obama started too?

So, in other words, you think assad should stay in power..you think the contested areas of Syria should be filled with a mix of ISIL/Iran and Russia. You think Yemen, who support and defend ISIL, should be left alone...

OBTW-

The CIA had been flying unarmed drones over Afghanistan since 2000. It began to fly armed drones after the September 11 attacks. Some were used during the air war against the Taliban in late 2001. But by February 2002 the CIA hadn’t yet used a drone for a strike outside military support. The February 2002 attack was a pure CIA kill operation, undertaken separately from any ongoing military operation.

drones aren't new...and the guy who destroyed Iraq and helped give rise to ISIS, was president..No, not Obama.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Re: Re:

Correcting a factual error does not equal a defence of anything or anyone.

E.g. Lupi: "Hitler invaded Spain"
MacB: "No he didn't."
Lupi: "Nazi!!"

...but there was no factual error, other than the one you made

here's some facts..please comment.

The Trump administration is moving ahead with plans to make it easier for the CIA and the military to target terrorists with drone strikes, even if it means tolerating more civilian casualties, U.S. officials told NBC News.
The military already has declared that parts of Yemen and Somalia are war zones — "areas of active hostilities" in Pentagon parlance — which means the U.S. has greater latitude to launch strikes even if civilian deaths are possible.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/trump-admin-ups-drone-strikes-tolerates-more-civilian-deaths-n733336

A year ago..your boy is stepping up for President Obama quite well..

 

[macbindle]

Re: Re:

Correcting a factual error does not equal a defence of anything or anyone.

E.g. Lupi: "Hitler invaded Spain"
MacB: "No he didn't."
Lupi: "Nazi!!"

...but there was no factual error, other than the one you made

Oh I'm sorry, I forgot we are in LupiWorld where you can say anything you like and just saying it makes it true.

 

[aphronesis]

It is a real danger when you have haphazard access to truths that exceeds the status quo, but no means to develop it.

Hopefully it won’t turn into a disgruntled rampage.

 

[macbindle]

Well, our petulant teenage friend has been disappeared permanently by the deep state so the disgruntled rampage will probably be the caravan equivalent of this...

 

[macbindle]

Anyway, back to grown up conversation. I have been reading this blog recently:

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk

written by a former UK Ambassador to Uzbekistan. It's worth reading why it is that he is an ex-ambassador, as well as his thoughts on the Skripal affair.

 

[macbindle]

https://theintercept.com/2018/04/02/israel-killing-palestine-civilian-liberal-humanitarian/

In the UK, we are too busy trying to work out if the Labour Party is anti-semitic...

 

[Bustedknuckle]

"Many dead, including women and children, in mindless CHEMICAL attack in Syria. Area of atrocity is in lockdown and encircled by Syrian Army, making it completely inaccessible to outside world. President Putin, Russia and Iran are responsible for backing Animal Assad. Big price to pay. Open area immediately for medical help and verification. Another humanitarian disaster for no reason whatsoever. SICK!"

http://www.kcci.com/article/amid-latest-syrian-chemical-attack-trump-calls-out-putin-iran-for-backing-assad/19712153

Yet, he says to his deplorable base in Cleveland and then to
'MY" generals, we need to get out of Syria..dope..