104TH LIÈGE-BASTOGNE-LIÈGE 1.UWT April 22nd, 2018

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Re: Re:

DFA123 said:
Dekker_Tifosi said:
Red Rick said:
"What Jungels can do, shouldn't you be able to do that too?"

"Haha not today"

Tom Dumoulin
He was better than last year. And shaping up good for the Giro. Oomen good too.
Did they ask him why neither Dumoulin or Oomen worked to try to close the gap to Jungels, despite both of them being in the chasing group?
They weren't. They only managed to catch up to the group Alaphilippe on the climb to Ans and by then Jungels had already secured his victory.
 
Re: Re:

DFA123 said:
Dekker_Tifosi said:
Red Rick said:
"What Jungels can do, shouldn't you be able to do that too?"

"Haha not today"

Tom Dumoulin
He was better than last year. And shaping up good for the Giro. Oomen good too.
Did they ask him why neither Dumoulin or Oomen worked to try to close the gap to Jungels, despite both of them being in the chasing group?
They didn't ask, but Tom and Sam both stated that they where hanging on by thread. So I think the simple answer is that they couldn't.
 
Re: Re:

DFA123 said:
Dekker_Tifosi said:
Red Rick said:
"What Jungels can do, shouldn't you be able to do that too?"

"Haha not today"

Tom Dumoulin
He was better than last year. And shaping up good for the Giro. Oomen good too.
Did they ask him why neither Dumoulin or Oomen worked to try to close the gap to Jungels, despite both of them being in the chasing group?
I think this is dumb question to ask. It should be easy to know why. They both had nothing left. The result even shows it.
 
Re: Re:

Koronin said:
Libertine Seguros said:
Koronin said:
Movistar just proved that they are not even close to as strong of a team as they have been the last several years. The exodus of riders over the past two years is showing. I have a feeling the team is going to implode completely at the Tour. They've had too many very good riders leave and it's really showing.
Turns out having a mid-table budget but top-table talent has its negatives. To buy in another top climbing talent, they've sacrificed far too many experienced rouleurs and helpers. There aren't many guys with the power to properly shepherd the leaders and those there are are having to be spread too thinly to be 100% effective. Barbero isn't strong enough to play the old role Rojas and Lobato could in the same scale of competition, and most of their domestiques for the rolling to flat terrain are inexperienced guys like Bico and Carretero, on the wind-down like Bennati or simply not that strong, like Arcas, and their main guys who ARE good enough are Sütterlin and Oliveira, the latter of which is injured.

Sepúlveda and Valls can cover the lower slopes domestique side of things and Sepúlveda has decent flat power too, but while they perhaps cover the loss of the Herrada brothers, there's still the Izagirres who take some serious replacing. All their best prospects are guys like Soler and Carapaz who fall into the same categories of rider as their existing leaders.

Here's their bigger problems a bunch of riders who have left over the last two years have said they were done dealing with Quintana so they weren't keeping them no matter what. They haven't been able to replace the riders they've lost. Not just the Herrada and Izagirre brothers, but also Sutherland, Castroviejo is a huge loss (along with Malori), Dowsett, Labato, and there were several others as well. Actually at this point I don't think even Valverde can keep this team from imploding at the Tour this summer. It is going to be interesting to see just how badly they implode, but it's going to happen.
What are you talking about? what does Quintana now has to do with Valverde losing LBL???
Come on, Valverde cannot win them all!
 
Re: Re:

DFA123 said:
Dekker_Tifosi said:
Red Rick said:
"What Jungels can do, shouldn't you be able to do that too?"

"Haha not today"

Tom Dumoulin
He was better than last year. And shaping up good for the Giro. Oomen good too.
Did they ask him why neither Dumoulin or Oomen worked to try to close the gap to Jungels, despite both of them being in the chasing group?
They both dropped at Roche, only got back to the group on the top. They realised they were not strong enough for the victory and they are not going to work for Valverde and the rest.
 
Re:

Alexandre B. said:
Orica and Sunweb were surprisingly quiet during the chase.
Hehehe ;) . I liked when TD cut out his effort, looked around, like "I ain't chasing Bob, he helped me win the Giro". Nothing wrong with that. And without Dumoulin, as it was mentioned, the group was light on rouleurs. Smart move, and well-deserved win for Jungels. Nice podium all-around. My wish of podium for Bardet came true, but no shark attack, and no Alaf-Bala rund 2: although, it's nice to see other riders get their wins. Bad week for Valverde.
 
Re: Re:

Dekker_Tifosi said:
DFA123 said:
Dekker_Tifosi said:
Red Rick said:
"What Jungels can do, shouldn't you be able to do that too?"

"Haha not today"

Tom Dumoulin
He was better than last year. And shaping up good for the Giro. Oomen good too.
Did they ask him why neither Dumoulin or Oomen worked to try to close the gap to Jungels, despite both of them being in the chasing group?
I think this is dumb question to ask. It should be easy to know why. They both had nothing left. The result even shows it.
I think even 'with nothing left' Dumoulin could have taken a couple of turns when Villela was on the front and been able to reduce the gap. But perhaps as leader he wasn't prepared to sacrifice a chance of a top 10 for Oomen.
 
Re: Re:

El Pistolero said:
Valv.Piti said:
Durden93 said:
Valv.Piti said:
I just feel that Nibali is an overrated rider, an overachiever. I still don't know how he managed to win San Remo, but I guess thats what makes him that good. Not at all surprised with his poor performance here.

He will probably hit his peak shape and then win TdF anyways :D
If someone consistently overachieves, are they really overachieving or just opportunistic?
I think he overachieves by being opportunistic AND getting a few lucky breaks during his career
Valverde can only win when all teams work for him. What a weakling, he put in one dig and already gets dropped on his favorite climb lol. Hopefully they reduce team size to just 6 riders next year. The final 20km was pretty good this year, that's at least much better than last few years.
He didn't have the legs this year, simple as that. No need to behave like a 12 year old, Pisti.
 
Re: Re:

DFA123 said:
Dekker_Tifosi said:
DFA123 said:
Dekker_Tifosi said:
Red Rick said:
"What Jungels can do, shouldn't you be able to do that too?"

"Haha not today"

Tom Dumoulin
He was better than last year. And shaping up good for the Giro. Oomen good too.
Did they ask him why neither Dumoulin or Oomen worked to try to close the gap to Jungels, despite both of them being in the chasing group?
I think this is dumb question to ask. It should be easy to know why. They both had nothing left. The result even shows it.
I think even 'with nothing left' Dumoulin could have taken a couple of turns when Villela was on the front and been able to reduce the gap. But perhaps as leader he wasn't prepared to sacrifice a chance of a top 10 for Oomen.
No way Dumoulin or Oomen would work for a top 10 place or to help Valverde/Alaphilippe to the finish when they know they can't win themselves anymore. Glad you are not teamleader or cyclist. You seem to apply the same logic of tactics as Michael Boogerd
 
Re: Re:

Escarabajo said:
Koronin said:
Libertine Seguros said:
Koronin said:
Movistar just proved that they are not even close to as strong of a team as they have been the last several years. The exodus of riders over the past two years is showing. I have a feeling the team is going to implode completely at the Tour. They've had too many very good riders leave and it's really showing.
Turns out having a mid-table budget but top-table talent has its negatives. To buy in another top climbing talent, they've sacrificed far too many experienced rouleurs and helpers. There aren't many guys with the power to properly shepherd the leaders and those there are are having to be spread too thinly to be 100% effective. Barbero isn't strong enough to play the old role Rojas and Lobato could in the same scale of competition, and most of their domestiques for the rolling to flat terrain are inexperienced guys like Bico and Carretero, on the wind-down like Bennati or simply not that strong, like Arcas, and their main guys who ARE good enough are Sütterlin and Oliveira, the latter of which is injured.

Sepúlveda and Valls can cover the lower slopes domestique side of things and Sepúlveda has decent flat power too, but while they perhaps cover the loss of the Herrada brothers, there's still the Izagirres who take some serious replacing. All their best prospects are guys like Soler and Carapaz who fall into the same categories of rider as their existing leaders.

Here's their bigger problems a bunch of riders who have left over the last two years have said they were done dealing with Quintana so they weren't keeping them no matter what. They haven't been able to replace the riders they've lost. Not just the Herrada and Izagirre brothers, but also Sutherland, Castroviejo is a huge loss (along with Malori), Dowsett, Labato, and there were several others as well. Actually at this point I don't think even Valverde can keep this team from imploding at the Tour this summer. It is going to be interesting to see just how badly they implode, but it's going to happen.
What are you talking about? what does Quintana now has to do with Valverde losing LBL???
Come on, Valverde cannot win them all!
Quintana is a large part of the reason for the mass exodus of riders on this team. Thus Valverde not having the teammates he needs for LBL and the Ardennes in general. That is what Quintana has to do with Valverde loosing both LBL AND Fleche Wallone.
 
Re: Re:

El Pistolero said:
Valv.Piti said:
Durden93 said:
Valv.Piti said:
I just feel that Nibali is an overrated rider, an overachiever. I still don't know how he managed to win San Remo, but I guess thats what makes him that good. Not at all surprised with his poor performance here.

He will probably hit his peak shape and then win TdF anyways :D
If someone consistently overachieves, are they really overachieving or just opportunistic?
I think he overachieves by being opportunistic AND getting a few lucky breaks during his career
Valverde can only win when all teams work for him. What a weakling, he put in one dig and already gets dropped on his favorite climb lol. Hopefully they reduce team size to just 6 riders next year. The final 20km was pretty good this year, that's at least much better than last few years.
Are you really a big fan of outsiders (although Jungels was very strong today) riding away while the other favourites look at eachother? It's better than a group sprint in Ans but not by much.
 
Valverde couldnt win becasue of his team ?? What ?

Firstly eveyrone on here spend all the time between races telling us what great riders Landa & Betencur are.. (he also had Amador who must be near peak for the Giro )
These guys are lauded every day of the week on here but now they cant (like Bardet or Woods or Pozzovivo) be near the end of a climbers classic ??? what bull

Give me a break ...you guys are so changeable

Landa and Amador & Betencur should have been there like the other climbers

But even if they were Valverde didnt have it today ...
 
Re: Re:

jaylew said:
El Pistolero said:
Valv.Piti said:
Durden93 said:
Valv.Piti said:
I just feel that Nibali is an overrated rider, an overachiever. I still don't know how he managed to win San Remo, but I guess thats what makes him that good. Not at all surprised with his poor performance here.

He will probably hit his peak shape and then win TdF anyways :D
If someone consistently overachieves, are they really overachieving or just opportunistic?
I think he overachieves by being opportunistic AND getting a few lucky breaks during his career
Valverde can only win when all teams work for him. What a weakling, he put in one dig and already gets dropped on his favorite climb lol. Hopefully they reduce team size to just 6 riders next year. The final 20km was pretty good this year, that's at least much better than last few years.
He didn't have the legs this year, simple as that. No need to behave like a 12 year old, Pisti.
Indeed. And it's all relative. He still finished 5th, 2nd and 13th in the three races. Describing that as a 'weakling' performance suggests the respect and very high standards to which Pistolero holds Valverde.
 
Mar 22, 2011
410
0
0
Re: Re:

Escarabajo said:
Koronin said:
Libertine Seguros said:
Koronin said:
Movistar just proved that they are not even close to as strong of a team as they have been the last several years. The exodus of riders over the past two years is showing. I have a feeling the team is going to implode completely at the Tour. They've had too many very good riders leave and it's really showing.
Turns out having a mid-table budget but top-table talent has its negatives. To buy in another top climbing talent, they've sacrificed far too many experienced rouleurs and helpers. There aren't many guys with the power to properly shepherd the leaders and those there are are having to be spread too thinly to be 100% effective. Barbero isn't strong enough to play the old role Rojas and Lobato could in the same scale of competition, and most of their domestiques for the rolling to flat terrain are inexperienced guys like Bico and Carretero, on the wind-down like Bennati or simply not that strong, like Arcas, and their main guys who ARE good enough are Sütterlin and Oliveira, the latter of which is injured.

Sepúlveda and Valls can cover the lower slopes domestique side of things and Sepúlveda has decent flat power too, but while they perhaps cover the loss of the Herrada brothers, there's still the Izagirres who take some serious replacing. All their best prospects are guys like Soler and Carapaz who fall into the same categories of rider as their existing leaders.

Here's their bigger problems a bunch of riders who have left over the last two years have said they were done dealing with Quintana so they weren't keeping them no matter what. They haven't been able to replace the riders they've lost. Not just the Herrada and Izagirre brothers, but also Sutherland, Castroviejo is a huge loss (along with Malori), Dowsett, Labato, and there were several others as well. Actually at this point I don't think even Valverde can keep this team from imploding at the Tour this summer. It is going to be interesting to see just how badly they implode, but it's going to happen.
What are you talking about? what does Quintana now has to do with Valverde losing LBL???
Come on, Valverde cannot win them all!
For sure, human cannot be on the peak for a whole season. (Except a form of a life normally happen during prime age.)
I hope Valverde recent result is reflecting that he is on better form last month and his 2018 main target is WCRR.
He need a win in WCRR far more than LBL + FW double.

Look at their Movistar start list, I don't think Valverde must ask for more. It is a pity good team already.
1 Alejandro Valverde Belmonte (Spa)
2 Andrey Amador Bikkazakova (Crc)
3 Winner Anacona Gomez (Col)
4 Carlos Alberto Betancur Gomez (Col)
5 Imanol Erviti Ollo (Spa)
6 Mikel Landa Meana (Spa)
7 Jose Joaquin Rojas Gil (Spa)
 
Re:

HelloDolly said:
Valverde couldnt win becasue of his team ?? What ?

Firstly eveyrone on here spend all the time between races telling us what great riders Landa & Betencur are.. (he also had Amador who must be near peak for the Giro )
These guys are lauded every day of the week on here but now they cant (like Bardet or Woods or Pozzovivo) be near the end of a climbers classic ??? what bull

Give me a break ...you guys are so changeable

Landa and Amador & Betencur should have been there like the other climbers

But even if they were Valverde didnt have it today ...
First of all Betencur has NOT been very good this year. Also they do NOT have some of the top domestiques they've had the last two years due to a mass exodus of riders. Amador and Landa CANNOT do everything themselves.
 
So in one post it's a boring race to then the next post which states the race is exciting - Strange indeed - Anyway I like to look to the future with these races and i think Jack Haig can win a future edition of this race.
 
Another well executed race for Quickstep. The cracks for Movistar showed in the Giro last year. They didn't look good at all even though on paper they were much stronger than Dumoulin's team. I wonder if Valverde's past week is the beginning of an age related drop off or just the pattern of racing was too much for him ? Very nice win by Jungels. Bardet is also looking good in one day races.
 
Re: Re:

Koronin said:
Escarabajo said:
Koronin said:
Libertine Seguros said:
Koronin said:
Movistar just proved that they are not even close to as strong of a team as they have been the last several years. The exodus of riders over the past two years is showing. I have a feeling the team is going to implode completely at the Tour. They've had too many very good riders leave and it's really showing.
Turns out having a mid-table budget but top-table talent has its negatives. To buy in another top climbing talent, they've sacrificed far too many experienced rouleurs and helpers. There aren't many guys with the power to properly shepherd the leaders and those there are are having to be spread too thinly to be 100% effective. Barbero isn't strong enough to play the old role Rojas and Lobato could in the same scale of competition, and most of their domestiques for the rolling to flat terrain are inexperienced guys like Bico and Carretero, on the wind-down like Bennati or simply not that strong, like Arcas, and their main guys who ARE good enough are Sütterlin and Oliveira, the latter of which is injured.

Sepúlveda and Valls can cover the lower slopes domestique side of things and Sepúlveda has decent flat power too, but while they perhaps cover the loss of the Herrada brothers, there's still the Izagirres who take some serious replacing. All their best prospects are guys like Soler and Carapaz who fall into the same categories of rider as their existing leaders.

Here's their bigger problems a bunch of riders who have left over the last two years have said they were done dealing with Quintana so they weren't keeping them no matter what. They haven't been able to replace the riders they've lost. Not just the Herrada and Izagirre brothers, but also Sutherland, Castroviejo is a huge loss (along with Malori), Dowsett, Labato, and there were several others as well. Actually at this point I don't think even Valverde can keep this team from imploding at the Tour this summer. It is going to be interesting to see just how badly they implode, but it's going to happen.
What are you talking about? what does Quintana now has to do with Valverde losing LBL???
Come on, Valverde cannot win them all!
Quintana is a large part of the reason for the mass exodus of riders on this team. Thus Valverde not having the teammates he needs for LBL and the Ardennes in general. That is what Quintana has to do with Valverde loosing both LBL AND Fleche Wallone.
That's lame. Valverde just wasn't good enough this week. He'd have won Fleche and possibly LBL if he had the same form he did this time last year - regardless of the make up of the team. 270km full of climbs, is a long, long way to go when you spent the last five months of the previous season either off the bike or soft pedalling just to give your leg enough strength to start proper training on.
 
Re:

movingtarget said:
Another well executed race for Quickstep. The cracks for Movistar showed in the Giro last year. They didn't look good at all even though on paper they were much stronger than Dumoulin's team. I wonder if Valverde's past week is the beginning of an age related drop off or just the pattern of racing was too much for him ? Very nice win by Jungels. Bardet is also looking good in one day races.
I think (and of course hope) it's just the latter in combination with a horrible team performance. He was pretty indestructible in Amstel where Alaphilippe had to turn himself inside out and kill himself for the finale in order to reel back Valverde on the last climb.
 
Re: Re:

Dekker_Tifosi said:
No way Dumoulin or Oomen would work for a top 10 place or to help Valverde/Alaphilippe to the finish when they know they can't win themselves anymore. Glad you are not teamleader or cyclist. You seem to apply the same logic of tactics as Michael Boogerd
True. Why bring the two back in contention and and waste your chances in the process? Also true that TD tired in the end. Also, there's friendship...Jungels helped TD at Il Giro (big time on stage 20). It wasn't his job to chase anyways.
 
Re:

yaco said:
So in one post it's a boring race to then the next post which states the race is exciting - Strange indeed - Anyway I like to look to the future with these races and i think Jack Haig can win a future edition of this race.
I think people are excited about someone winning from far out - but as has also been said, there was not a lot of excitement about the outcome of the race, since Jungels quickly gained 35 seconds when everyone was looking at each other heading into Saint Nicholas.
 
Mar 22, 2011
410
0
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Re:

movingtarget said:
Another well executed race for Quickstep. The cracks for Movistar showed in the Giro last year. They didn't look good at all even though on paper they were much stronger than Dumoulin's team. I wonder if Valverde's past week is the beginning of an age related drop off or just the pattern of racing was too much for him ? Very nice win by Jungels. Bardet is also looking good in one day races.
No one will be beaten by him on a sprint :D. Furthermore, his cannot go away alone with his TT ability.
Bardet is a perfect breakaway partner.

Guys, just go away with him when Bardet attacks.
 
Re: Re:

Dekker_Tifosi said:
No way Dumoulin or Oomen would work for a top 10 place or to help Valverde/Alaphilippe to the finish when they know they can't win themselves anymore. Glad you are not teamleader or cyclist. You seem to apply the same logic of tactics as Michael Boogerd
Not sure that really makes sense. Oomen did beat Valverde at the finish after all. You never know how everyone is feeling at the end of a race like Liege - if you've got two riders at the end you might as well use one to try to optimize the result of the other. And a rider, even on the limit, could always sneak away like Valgren did at Amstel.
 

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