13th BinckBank Tour (2.UWT) 7.8 - 13.8

[saganftw]

Re: Re:

It's understandable that the strongest is expected to work more. And it's good tactics when they want to win.
But with Sagan it really ends up with negative cycling. They're happy to loose as long as they make Sagan not win.

Sagan has mostly himself to blame. Almost everyone was alone in that group, so no reason for them to pull the group along. And it's better for them that someone else than Sagan wins, GC-wise.

Well Sagan attacked himself twice so his tactic was quite good .

I don't think so.

What should he do instead?

do nothing and let Kung come back obviously

 

[jaylew]

Re: Re:

Boom

While I agree he is no expert. He had good results as well. I suggest you go watch the Ardennes stage of the Tour of Belgium 2009.
Or his Vuelta solo win in a medium mountain stage.

He is definately not weaker than Vanmarcke, Sütterlin or Stuyven in hilly terrain I think.

I didn't consider past Vakoc. I'll certainly give you Sutterlin (honestly, I didn't really consider him either as I don't think he's a threat overall) but I'd say Boom is the weakest of the real threats.

 

[Velolover2]

I wonder how good Naesen is in the hills. He seems to be pretty decent.

 

[Velolover2]

Re:

Sütterlin weights nearly 80kg. Same with Stuyven. They'll be dropped like a stones if lighter riders like Wellens or Gilbert decide to attack on Saint-Roch.

Stuyven could surprise. But it's probably too much for Sütterlin.

Vakoc, Valgren and Bakelants are all hill-experts. Don't think GVA/Sagan can drop them. Still very open between the top 15. Less than 45 seconds.

 

[roundabout]

Re: Re:

Boom

While I agree he is no expert. He had good results as well. I suggest you go watch the Ardennes stage of the Tour of Belgium 2009.
Or his Vuelta solo win in a medium mountain stage.

He is definately not weaker than Vanmarcke, Sütterlin or Stuyven in hilly terrain I think.

2 performances from 8 years ago. Makes sense.

 

[tobydawq]

Sagan after having been asked, whether he was frustrated with the lack of cooperation (as he had just stated that he was, by the way):

"Well, that is the cycling, I'm still in the front, I'm eh... I'm young and beautiful, and that's okay"

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Re: Re:

Boom

While I agree he is no expert. He had good results as well. I suggest you go watch the Ardennes stage of the Tour of Belgium 2009.
Or his Vuelta solo win in a medium mountain stage.

He is definately not weaker than Vanmarcke, Sütterlin or Stuyven in hilly terrain I think.

2 performances from 8 years ago. Makes sense.

Plus Eneco tour like 2 years back, when he was 2nd to Wellens. Don't be a smartass

 

[Blanco]

Re: Re:

It's understandable that the strongest is expected to work more. And it's good tactics when they want to win.
But with Sagan it really ends up with negative cycling. They're happy to loose as long as they make Sagan not win.

Sagan has mostly himself to blame. Almost everyone was alone in that group, so no reason for them to pull the group along. And it's better for them that someone else than Sagan wins, GC-wise.

Well Sagan attacked himself twice so his tactic was quite good .

I don't think so.

What should he do instead?

He just works too much, way too much. Look at Van Avermaet, he nearly beat him in the sprint, and that's how he beat him in all those races in the past. Kwiatkowski also. He needs to bluff better, to risk everything, he needs to sit in the group, not doing so much work. That's the key in the classics, to save precious energy. He's the fastest, he must play that card. He's not the strongest, Van Avermaet is, he proved that this spring. He needs to expose him, force him to work hard, and then strike him on a steep hill or in the sprint. If today's race was longer and harder, he would again lose to Greg in the sprint finish. Today was entertaining, but not good racing.

 

[GuyIncognito]

These stages through the netherlands always make me cringe with the perpetually unmarked road furniture and resultant crashes (not many today luckily).

Reminds me of what Indurain used to say about it. "It's like they have an arrow shortage"

 

[GenericBoonenFan]

Re:

These stages through the netherlands always make me cringe with the perpetually unmarked road furniture and resultant crashes (not many today luckily).

Reminds me of what Indurain used to say about it. "It's like they have an arrow shortage"

Also It's just a matter fo time when a parked car will cause a huge accident, that stupid rule tho...

 

[Frankschleck]

Re: Re:

He just works too much, way too much. Look at Van Avermaet, he nearly beat him in the sprint, and that's how he beat him in all those races in the past. Kwiatkowski also. He needs to bluff better, to risk everything, he needs to sit in the group, not doing so much work. That's the key in the classics, to save precious energy. He's the fastest, he must play that card. He's not the strongest, Van Avermaet is, he proved that this spring. He needs to expose him, force him to work hard, and then strike him on a steep hill or in the sprint. If today's race was longer and harder, he would again lose to Greg in the sprint finish. Today was entertaining, but not good racing.[/quote]

Don't agree, i think sagan is the strongest, van avermaet is just a lot smarter.

 

[ihosama]

Re: Re:

He just works too much, way too much. Look at Van Avermaet, he nearly beat him in the sprint, and that's how he beat him in all those races in the past. Kwiatkowski also. He needs to bluff better, to risk everything, he needs to sit in the group, not doing so much work. That's the key in the classics, to save precious energy. He's the fastest, he must play that card. He's not the strongest, Van Avermaet is, he proved that this spring. He needs to expose him, force him to work hard, and then strike him on a steep hill or in the sprint. If today's race was longer and harder, he would again lose to Greg in the sprint finish. Today was entertaining, but not good racing.

I think a lot here miss the point.

By now Sagan sees professional cycling as a business endeavour first a fun job second with palmares a distant third (Monuments and Greens being the exception). He sure wants to win but he is not willing to sacrifice his style, bravado and just pure having fun playing with the field just for getting a bit more wins in exchange for a lot less 2nd places.

Sagan knows that three 2nd places like he got today - where he is maybe overly active and effectively battles a 10-man group head-on by himself gives him more fans and more exposure and, eventually, more money than 1 win and two 10th places if he gambled it.

He simply can afford to waste energy and still win enough races to matter. Maybe it is arrogant but it is also why so many fans love him. For him it is the perfect match of having fun and being paid for it.

 

[Hellyea]

Re: Re:

He needs to bluff better, to risk everything, he needs to sit in the group, not doing so much work. That's the key in the classics, to save precious energy.

I am sure you were one of those people who were beating him with a stick after what he pulled at G-W this spring.

He's not the strongest, Van Avermaet is, he proved that this spring

Even though GVA had a hell of a spring, the only time he actually beat Sagan was at Omloop. Which was in February We can speculate which of them was strongest this year or we can look at the results of Sagan these days and compare them to GVA. Was he even at TDF? Sagan beat him with one pedal at TDF and then went sipping cappuccinos to Milan

 

[Ikbengodniet]

Dutch newspaper thinks Boom's celebration whas meant for his team because they don't take him to the Vuelta. Boom thinks his last spring campaign was a failure partly because he rode no GT at Astana last year.

 

[Velolover2]

Come on, what's next? Fining Contador for his pistol-gesture?

Isn't cycling supposed to be about emotions and personalities too? They are humans after all, not robots.

 

[Jagartrott]

Re: Re:

We can speculate which of them was strongest this year or we can look at the results of Sagan these days and compare them to GVA.

This doesn't make any sense.

 

[Echoes]

Re: Re:

Even though GVA had a hell of a spring, the only time he actually beat Sagan was at Omloop. Which was in February We can speculate which of them was strongest this year or we can look at the results of Sagan these days and compare them to GVA. Was he even at TDF? Sagan beat him with one pedal at TDF and then went sipping cappuccinos to Milan

Dude, Greg Van Avermaet beat Sagan at any spring classic he won and was sick at the Tour of France. Besides, he no longer needs to beat him. His objective is to win the World Tour. All that matters to him is to grab points and secure his overall win...

 

[roundabout]

Re: Re:

Boom

While I agree he is no expert. He had good results as well. I suggest you go watch the Ardennes stage of the Tour of Belgium 2009.
Or his Vuelta solo win in a medium mountain stage.

He is definately not weaker than Vanmarcke, Sütterlin or Stuyven in hilly terrain I think.

2 performances from 8 years ago. Makes sense.

Plus Eneco tour like 2 years back, when he was 2nd to Wellens. Don't be a smartass

Put a little more effort into your posts next time then.

And it's 3 years, not 2.

 

[Frankschleck]

Re: Re:

Even though GVA had a hell of a spring, the only time he actually beat Sagan was at Omloop. Which was in February We can speculate which of them was strongest this year or we can look at the results of Sagan these days and compare them to GVA. Was he even at TDF? Sagan beat him with one pedal at TDF and then went sipping cappuccinos to Milan

Dude, Greg Van Avermaet beat Sagan at any spring classic he won and was sick at the Tour of France. Besides, he no longer needs to beat him. His objective is to win the World Tour. All that matters to him is to grab points and secure his overall win...

That doesn't mean he was stronger tho, just a lot smarter. Look at the paris roubaix, sagan was by far stronger there.

 

[Echoes]

Carrefour de l'Arbre never lies. Van Avermaet was stronger that day, fair and square. Punctures are no bad luck, it's a matter of clear-mindedness.

 

[Blanco]

Re: Re:

He needs to bluff better, to risk everything, he needs to sit in the group, not doing so much work. That's the key in the classics, to save precious energy.

I am sure you were one of those people who were beating him with a stick after what he pulled at G-W this spring.

He's not the strongest, Van Avermaet is, he proved that this spring

Even though GVA had a hell of a spring, the only time he actually beat Sagan was at Omloop. Which was in February We can speculate which of them was strongest this year or we can look at the results of Sagan these days and compare them to GVA. Was he even at TDF? Sagan beat him with one pedal at TDF and then went sipping cappuccinos to Milan

He pulled what at G-W? Didn't saw a thing he pulled, just things he didn't...

Van Avermaet won 4 big classics in the spring, we don't need to speculate anything, things are perfectly clear who the strongest guy was!
TDF? Who the hell cares about TDF?! Is that a race for a classic specialist? TDF shows nothing, spring classics are main races in which both riders excel, and main targets for both of them. That's where they both are in the peak shape, and there's where it is shown who the stronger is.

 

[GenericBoonenFan]

That is one powerfull break

 

[Billie]

Big Ring fight off between Martin and Weening

 

[SafeBet]

Weather looks promising for a Wellens show.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Sunweb, BMC and Lotto Soudal working mainly.