2012 Tour de France: Stage 4: Abbeville → Rouen (214.5km)

[The Sheep]

There would be a lot less crashes if the GC riders would just keep one guy with them instead of a whole train.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

i think that's just a different approach. BMC for example have been giving Evans a full train even on flat stages just to make absolutely sure he stays out of trouble. sky do not seem to bother that much, true, but again, the hierarchy in the team isn't in doubt, not for a second. i think this is due to the respective captains and what they ask for. generally, Evans seems like a nervous guy, while wiggins is more reserved

Also, what the domestiques are there for is slightly different. Wiggins basically has a bunch of guys who are there to control (suck the life out of) climbing stages. Evans has fewer guys who can climb and more guys who are there to shepherd him about the rest of the time.

 

[l.Harm]

There would be a lot less crashes if the GC riders would just keep one guy with them instead of a whole train.

Exactly. And within the 3 km you don't need to be in the up front.

 

[Galic Ho]

i think that's just a different approach. BMC for example have been giving Evans a full train even on flat stages just to make absolutely sure he stays out of trouble. sky do not seem to bother that much, true, but again, the hierarchy in the team isn't in doubt, not for a second. i think this is due to the respective captains and what they ask for. generally, Evans seems like a nervous guy, while wiggins is more reserved

The last sentence is a complete fabrication. Nice attempt to lie about reality. It's the other way around. Wiggins is the nervous one. Forget his angriness and attitude at the end of stage 1? What you wrote regarding Evans may have been true 3 years ago in 2009, but not anymore. Not after he left Lotto. Not after he won the WC.

Ask for? Genius, Wiggins was fuming his team have left him alone during the first stage. Nobody was there. Everything Evans has asked for has been granted. Team Sky? Nah, they're helping Froome or Cav. Nice try. Come back to reality. Or better yet tell Sky to drop the PR garbage and be honest. Their house of cards is crumbling.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

All the complaining about GC riders... while the crash was caused, again, by sprinters....

 

[Froome19]

The last sentence is a complete fabrication. Nice attempt to lie about reality. It's the other way around. Wiggins is the nervous one. Forget his angriness and attitude at the end of stage 1? What you wrote regarding Evans may have been true 3 years ago in 2009, but not anymore. Not after he left Lotto. Not after he won the WC.

Ask for? Genius, Wiggins was fuming his team have left him alone during the first stage. Nobody was there. Everything Evans has asked for has been granted. Team Sky? Nah, they're helping Froome or Cav. Nice try. Come back to reality. Or better yet tell Sky to drop the PR garbage and be honest. Their house of cards is crumbling.

Indeed Wiggins does get nervousish not in the sense of nerves but in the sense that he wants everything to be perfect so that he has the optimum opportunity to win.

This kind of contradicts itself: How is the house of cards crumbling?

 

[TRDean]

All the complaining about GC riders... while the crash was caused, again, by sprinters....

Well, really that is the nature of the sprint game. These things happen. It is too bad and I hope all riders are OK. Glad Gesink didn't go down!

 

[Mellow Velo]

Looking on the bright side, the crash meant that Brice Feillu wasn't last, again.

 

[El Pistolero]

All the complaining about GC riders... while the crash was caused, again, by sprinters....

Like Phil said, always the same riders involved in crashes, they never learn. He had a melancholic laugh when he heard Cav was involved.

 

[woodenswan]

The last sentence is a complete fabrication. Nice attempt to lie about reality. It's the other way around. Wiggins is the nervous one. Forget his angriness and attitude at the end of stage 1? What you wrote regarding Evans may have been true 3 years ago in 2009, but not anymore. Not after he left Lotto. Not after he won the WC.

Ask for? Genius, Wiggins was fuming his team have left him alone during the first stage. Nobody was there. Everything Evans has asked for has been granted. Team Sky? Nah, they're helping Froome or Cav. Nice try. Come back to reality. Or better yet tell Sky to drop the PR garbage and be honest. Their house of cards is crumbling.

well to me it is your last paragraph that seems like a fabrication. and yeas, obviously i was also thinking about Evans' diff incidents "off the court", but it is not the main reason why i think he's more of a nervous guy than Wiggins. his facial expressions, his interviews, and yes, his need for a number of domestiques with more or less the sole task of shepherding him during stages. (im a huge fan of his btw. just to make things clear as there's quite a number of jumpy members out there) as for sky, well they have been functioning well all season, so im not sure u should read that much into one mishap. we shall see of course, it's not like we know half of the things that are going on

 

[Mellow Velo]

i think that's just a different approach. BMC for example have been giving Evans a full train even on flat stages just to make absolutely sure he stays out of trouble. sky do not seem to bother that much, true, but again, the hierarchy in the team isn't in doubt, not for a second. i think this is due to the respective captains and what they ask for. generally, Evans seems like a nervous guy, while wiggins is more reserved

The last sentence is a complete fabrication. Nice attempt to lie about reality. It's the other way around. Wiggins is the nervous one. Forget his angriness and attitude at the end of stage 1? What you wrote regarding Evans may have been true 3 years ago in 2009, but not anymore. Not after he left Lotto. Not after he won the WC.

Ask for? Genius, Wiggins was fuming his team have left him alone during the first stage. Nobody was there. Everything Evans has asked for has been granted. Team Sky? Nah, they're helping Froome or Cav. Nice try. Come back to reality. Or better yet tell Sky to drop the PR garbage and be honest. Their house of cards is crumbling.

Galic Hopeless once again:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/nervous-evans-relieved-bmcs-fortunes-remain-intact
Please try and keep up, before you launching into usual attack dog mode of reply.

Imo, ALL the GC men have to be nervous, given what tends to happen in the Tour's first week or so.

 

[Froome19]

Galic Hopeless once again:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/nervous-evans-relieved-bmcs-fortunes-remain-intact
.

That doesnt state that Evans demeanour is naturally one of nervousness as Woodenswan suggested.

 

[mcassidy3]

Like Phil said, always the same riders involved in crashes, they never learn. He had a melancholic laugh when he heard Cav was involved.

When did Cav last cause a crash that he was involved in?

 

[TRDean]

When did Cav last cause a crash that he was involved in?

I don't care who the sprinter is...if they are worth their salt they have all caused a crash and many quite a few. It is the nature of the beast..the cautious guy isn't going for the closing hole..or along the guard rail...and won't be winning. As much as I hate the crashes...I do tend to like the every man for himself over the sprint train...but let me be clear...I HATE to see crashes.

 

[BillytheKid]

Cancellara has guys loosely about to help if needed (today he did some himself), so I do think rinding around the GC leader in-mass makes for competing interests for the sprint. Sky seems to want to hold a set postion in the field, something that's really not possible. BMC are all in for Cadel, spliting your concerns can can land you in trouble. Sky would have not have been crash effected by actually leading out Cav some today.

 

[El Pistolero]

I don't care who the sprinter is...if they are worth their salt they have all caused a crash and many quite a few. It is the nature of the beast..the cautious guy isn't going for the closing hole..or along the guard rail...and won't be winning. As much as I hate the crashes...I do tend to like the every man for himself over the sprint train...but let me be clear...I HATE to see crashes.

Yes, good post. I'm not blaming Cav, but sprinters do have a tendency to cause a lot of crashes. Greipel is often blamed for being too nice, so I think he's an exception. He's doing very good with a train though. Glad to see we finally established who the second best sprinter is. Kittel might have a word in the future though.

 

[BillytheKid]

I don't care who the sprinter is...if they are worth their salt they have all caused a crash and many quite a few. It is the nature of the beast..the cautious guy isn't going for the closing hole..or along the guard rail...and won't be winning. As much as I hate the crashes...I do tend to like the every man for himself over the sprint train...but let me be clear...I HATE to see crashes.

Today's crash was at what, 1.5Ks out, very early for true sprinter's crash your talking about.

 

[Mellow Velo]

That doesnt state that Evans demeanour is naturally one of nervousness as Woodenswan suggested.

He's calmer now, than he used to be, that's for sure.
I repeat, at this stage, the GC men are all nervous.
No need for GH to start frothing at the mouth, every time
he reads something he doesn't necessarily agree with.
I'm all for healthy debate and disagreement, but with
the tone control set.

 

[FabulousCandelabra]

Was EBH helping Cav or were they both freeballing it?

 

[TRDean]

Today's crash was at what, 1.5Ks out, very early for true sprinter's crash your talking about.

Not really. Hence the 3K rule...but I see what you are saying...but guys trying to position themselves etc. But my original point is still valid.

 

[Galic Ho]

Indeed Wiggins does get nervousish not in the sense of nerves but in the sense that he wants everything to be perfect so that he has the optimum opportunity to win.

This kind of contradicts itself: How is the house of cards crumbling?

The PR talk has been going on for months. Phil and Paul were at it again. Stating the team trains together, has raced together all year. They '"don't even need to speak on the road." No Paul implied they just know where to be and when. Sad thing is I haven't seen that once. Just doesn't add up.

As someone said, the hype is wearing pretty thin right now. They'd have been smarter not to hype Brad. Because as you said, he likes all his ducks lined up in a row and if they don't fall, it will affect him more mentally than physically. The cracks are metaphors for the support not being there. We were told it would be, that the team was super strong. If Sky fails to deliver on a big day, the whole ship will probably implode. BMC on the other hand is playing it cool. Haven't hyped themselves, haven't talked enlessly to the press and also the fans haven't made excessive declarations about them. IMO they have played their cards wrong and I have seen enough to suggest Wiggins will have troubles very soon.

Of course he could turn it around...big IF though. Big IF, because the team and his longheld notions and expectations on what will be given/happen are based on the teams PR talk. Holes have emerged in all this. It's all about looking at the patterns. I can see Wiggins having to do a lot more work than he every imagined and I don't think it will grait well with him psychologically. That's the type of cracks I am implying. Cracking under the pressure. He's the type of guy when that happens, he'll get ****ed. Probably after the crap hits the fan.

Put it this way. I think the GC riders for Liquigas, BMC, Katusha, Lotto, Quickstep, Movistar and RSNT probably feel a lot more secure now and calmer than Wiggins is.

I'll stick by what I said weeks back. Sky will regret bringing Cav and Eisel plus aiming for Wiggins on GC. Something will give. Let's not kid ourselves either. They entered as many people's maillot jaune favourite...they think it's theirs and so does Wiggins. Does anyone really think he'd be happy with a top 5? Or just a podium at best?

Oh and one more thing. Cav is very good at praising his team mates for their efforts. But he isn't good at recipricating their efforts to help him on the road. He won't help Wiggins GC at all. Eisel might, but not a lot.

 

[woodenswan]

He's calmer now, than he used to be, that's for sure.
I repeat, at this stage, the GC men are all nervous.

agreed.
all but Ryder Hesjedal that man is ice cooooooool

 

[BillytheKid]

Not really. Hence the 3K rule...but I see what you are saying...but guys trying to position themselves etc. But my original point is still valid.

Fighting for wheels, does become more visable as the traffic drops away in the final 500-200 meters, but it also allows for the type of bumping of wheels and risk taking your talking about. If your doing that when the field has some numbers, your going to cause crashes.

People fight for position all the time, but what we see at the very end of a sprint, I would say is not the typical stuff just back up the road of the finish.

 

[thehog]

Today's crash was at what, 1.5Ks out, very early for true sprinter's crash your talking about.

Try 2.7kms out.

 

[BillytheKid]

The PR talk has been going on for months. Phil and Paul were at it again. Stating the team trains together, has raced together all year. They '"don't even need to speak on the road." No Paul implied they just know where to be and when. Sad thing is I haven't seen that once. Just doesn't add up.

As someone said, the hype is wearing pretty thin right now. They'd have been smarter not to hype Brad. Because as you said, he likes all his ducks lined up in a row and if they don't fall, it will affect him more mentally than physically. The cracks are metaphors for the support not being there. We were told it would be, that the team was super strong. If Sky fails to deliver on a big day, the whole ship will probably implode. BMC on the other hand is playing it cool. Haven't hyped themselves, haven't talked enlessly to the press and also the fans haven't made excessive declarations about them. IMO they have played their cards wrong and I have seen enough to suggest Wiggins will have troubles very soon.

Of course he could turn it around...big IF though. Big IF, because the team and his longheld notions and expectations on what will be given/happen are based on the teams PR talk. Holes have emerged in all this. It's all about looking at the patterns. I can see Wiggins having to do a lot more work than he every imagined and I don't think it will grait well with him psychologically. That's the type of cracks I am implying. Cracking under the pressure. He's the type of guy when that happens, he'll get ****ed. Probably after the crap hits the fan.

Put it this way. I think the GC riders for Liquigas, BMC, Katusha, Lotto, Quickstep, Movistar and RSNT probably feel a lot more secure now and calmer than Wiggins is.

I'll stick by what I said weeks back. Sky will regret bringing Cav and Eisel plus aiming for Wiggins on GC. Something will give. Let's not kid ourselves either. They entered as many people's maillot jaune favourite...they think it's theirs and so does Wiggins. Does anyone really think he'd be happy with a top 5? Or just a podium at best?

Oh and one more thing. Cav is very good at praising his team mates for their efforts. But he isn't good at recipricating their efforts to help him on the road. He won't help Wiggins GC at all. Eisel might, but not a lot.

Wiggins also has the greatest expectations on him, which he helped create by rocketing throught the season. Cadel opted out this year probably probably becasue he knows nerves can overtake you.