2015 Ardennes Classics: 50th Amstel Gold Race - 4.19 - 258km

[Akuryo]

Re: Re:

What about Jelle Vanendert, the Zubeldia of the hills? No one seems to care about him, but he is always solid in the Ardennes.

Of course he is an outsider but the problem is he doesn't have the pure power the other guys do, it's similar to with Dan Martin, unless they get away in a decent move a little earlier they just won't be able to compete with Gilbert, Valverde, Kwiatkowski and maybe Matthews on the real powerclimb, of course I would love to be proven wrong

A few years ago, though, that was Simon Gerrans: the guy who once was a threat because of good tactical riding, who threw it all away to be a guy who came around about 7th in the uphill sprint finish in every hilly Classic. It was only when he really developed his sprint to the point where he would be a favourite from a reduced bunch that he became the rider he's now known as, and the racing has got so cowardly that it allows him to use his one weapon to win.

Also, Dan Martin is very much not a placements rider. He's a guy who has gained a lot of his palmarès out of others' cowardice, but not because he profits from cowardice like Gerrans, but because he's prepared to take a risk when nobody else wants to make the race.

And I like that. Dan Martin took 2 monuments with this kind of racing and both were very deserved. Or Kwiatkowski at the World Championships. These riders at least try. And sometimes they get their reward.

 

[observer]

silly Gerrans, he should play his part and lose every race. tsk tsk. Naughty boy for playing to his strengths.

 

[Cance > TheRest]

Re: Re:

What about Jelle Vanendert, the Zubeldia of the hills? No one seems to care about him, but he is always solid in the Ardennes.

Of course he is an outsider but the problem is he doesn't have the pure power the other guys do, it's similar to with Dan Martin, unless they get away in a decent move a little earlier they just won't be able to compete with Gilbert, Valverde, Kwiatkowski and maybe Matthews on the real powerclimb, of course I would love to be proven wrong

True. In a race like Amstel, non-explosive riders like DMartin has no chance to hold the wheels of PhilGil on Cauberg, but when the climbs get a little steeper, like the Mur de Huy and in Liege, Martin is very much one of the favourites even if he doesn't attack from a long range. He showed that in FW aswell as LBL last year.

 

[NUFCrichard]

Re: 2015 Ardennes Classics: 50th Amstel Gold Race - 4.19 - 2

Why does Stybar have no chance? I get that Kwiatkowski is the team leader, but the way he climbed at the end of the Strada Bianchi certainly made it look like he could have a chance here...

 

[grizzlee]

Re: Re:

What about Jelle Vanendert, the Zubeldia of the hills? No one seems to care about him, but he is always solid in the Ardennes.

Of course he is an outsider but the problem is he doesn't have the pure power the other guys do, it's similar to with Dan Martin, unless they get away in a decent move a little earlier they just won't be able to compete with Gilbert, Valverde, Kwiatkowski and maybe Matthews on the real powerclimb, of course I would love to be proven wrong

WHAT? Martin cant live with these guys on a power climb? Are you for real? Martin is probably better than most of these guys, its actually probably not hard enough if anything, his problem is that's its not hard enough for him and they will beat him in the sprint about a kilometer after the climb.

 

[Panda Claws]

I bet Martin could win Paris-Roubaix if it was a bit harder. Way too easy as it is now.

 

[happytramp]

Re: Re:

What about Jelle Vanendert, the Zubeldia of the hills? No one seems to care about him, but he is always solid in the Ardennes.

Of course he is an outsider but the problem is he doesn't have the pure power the other guys do, it's similar to with Dan Martin, unless they get away in a decent move a little earlier they just won't be able to compete with Gilbert, Valverde, Kwiatkowski and maybe Matthews on the real powerclimb, of course I would love to be proven wrong

WHAT? Martin cant live with these guys on a power climb? Are you for real? Martin is probably better than most of these guys, its actually probably not hard enough if anything, his problem is that's its not hard enough for him and they will beat him in the sprint about a kilometer after the climb.

I don't think he's talking about the climb, probably more the kilometer after it. He'd beat the likes of Gilbert, Matthews and Kwiatkowski on a climb but he won't have their power on a flatter finish. He tried against Matthews in one of the early stages of the tour last year but Matthews was much stronger since it wasn't steep enough.

 

[ciranda]

Martin is almost exactly like Gerrans, only difference is he sometimes attacks from -700m.

 

[DFA123]

Re: 2015 Ardennes Classics: 50th Amstel Gold Race - 4.19 - 2

Why does Stybar have no chance? I get that Kwiatkowski is the team leader, but the way he climbed at the end of the Strada Bianchi certainly made it look like he could have a chance here...

I don't think he's riding is he? I agree that on his Strade Bianche form he could ride well, but the Cauberg is probably just too long for him - especially after 250km it is slightly more of an aerobic effort, whereas the Santa Catarina climb is completely anaerobic.

 

[Kwibus]

Re:

silly Gerrans, he should play his part and lose every race. tsk tsk. Naughty boy for playing to his strengths.

He is stronger then he thinks. Not working with chasing down Kwiat at the WC was just dumb.
Last years LBL I understand, but I didnt enjoy it.

 

[Bushman]

Re: Re:

What about Jelle Vanendert, the Zubeldia of the hills? No one seems to care about him, but he is always solid in the Ardennes.

Of course he is an outsider but the problem is he doesn't have the pure power the other guys do, it's similar to with Dan Martin, unless they get away in a decent move a little earlier they just won't be able to compete with Gilbert, Valverde, Kwiatkowski and maybe Matthews on the real powerclimb, of course I would love to be proven wrong

WHAT? Martin cant live with these guys on a power climb? Are you for real? Martin is probably better than most of these guys, its actually probably not hard enough if anything, his problem is that's its not hard enough for him and they will beat him in the sprint about a kilometer after the climb.

Not on a climb like Cauberg.

 

[Fernandez]

Lets categorize the three Ardennes classics: AGR is a race of power, the Cauberg is a climb for power climbers; FW is a race of strength, Mure d´Huy is a climb of strenght climbers ; and LBL is a race of endurance.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

What about Jelle Vanendert, the Zubeldia of the hills? No one seems to care about him, but he is always solid in the Ardennes.

Of course he is an outsider but the problem is he doesn't have the pure power the other guys do, it's similar to with Dan Martin, unless they get away in a decent move a little earlier they just won't be able to compete with Gilbert, Valverde, Kwiatkowski and maybe Matthews on the real powerclimb, of course I would love to be proven wrong

A few years ago, though, that was Simon Gerrans: the guy who once was a threat because of good tactical riding, who threw it all away to be a guy who came around about 7th in the uphill sprint finish in every hilly Classic. It was only when he really developed his sprint to the point where he would be a favourite from a reduced bunch that he became the rider he's now known as, and the racing has got so cowardly that it allows him to use his one weapon to win.

Also, Dan Martin is very much not a placements rider. He's a guy who has gained a lot of his palmarès out of others' cowardice, but not because he profits from cowardice like Gerrans, but because he's prepared to take a risk when nobody else wants to make the race.

And how many wins has Valverde had by riding like Gerrans ? Gerrans like Valverde is a better sprinter than a climber but they have the balance that enables them to win hilly classics or even not so hilly classics. Valverde was never going to win a Tour and Gerrans used to be just a stage hunter. I have never understood the hate for Gerrans when he is only doing what others do but is more successful at it. Maybe if he ran placings instead of winning, people would like him more. Very strange. If Gerrans is a coward all sprinters are cowards but they are just doing their job. The idea is to win not lose with style. Gerrans is not a good TT rider so he is only riding to his strengths unless he is supposed to attack like Cancellara or GVA get caught and lose. Not very smart when you have a sprint like Gerrans.

 

[HelloDolly]

Re: Re:

What about Nico Roche? Maybe from a break? He is not bad in this terrain.

Like former teammate Kreuziger did in 2013,

Big fan of Roche but don't think he'll be able to do much tomorrow, he hasn't really trained for these races in particular and I think there will be many in better form.

He is not riding Amstel ....Riding FW & LBL where he will prob be on dom duties
Poels is on dom duties on Sunday and didn't sound too happy about it in his tweet

Nico could do well in LBL if he trained for it but according to his diaries he aim is to be in form from July to Sept as believes he cannot keep top form for long periods (prob due the need to be extra light for him)

Imagine Henao will acquit himself well at AG ....Kennaugh should do well but he is back from injury

 

[el_angliru]

Big profile (png):
http://www.c-cycling.com/images/amstel1 ... rofile.png

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

What about Jelle Vanendert, the Zubeldia of the hills? No one seems to care about him, but he is always solid in the Ardennes.

Of course he is an outsider but the problem is he doesn't have the pure power the other guys do, it's similar to with Dan Martin, unless they get away in a decent move a little earlier they just won't be able to compete with Gilbert, Valverde, Kwiatkowski and maybe Matthews on the real powerclimb, of course I would love to be proven wrong

A few years ago, though, that was Simon Gerrans: the guy who once was a threat because of good tactical riding, who threw it all away to be a guy who came around about 7th in the uphill sprint finish in every hilly Classic. It was only when he really developed his sprint to the point where he would be a favourite from a reduced bunch that he became the rider he's now known as, and the racing has got so cowardly that it allows him to use his one weapon to win.

Also, Dan Martin is very much not a placements rider. He's a guy who has gained a lot of his palmarès out of others' cowardice, but not because he profits from cowardice like Gerrans, but because he's prepared to take a risk when nobody else wants to make the race.

And how many wins has Valverde had by riding like Gerrans ? Gerrans like Valverde is a better sprinter than a climber but they have the balance that enables them to win hilly classics or even not so hilly classics. Valverde was never going to win a Tour and Gerrans used to be just a stage hunter. I have never understood the hate for Gerrans when he is only doing what others do but is more successful at it. Maybe if he ran placings instead of winning, people would like him more. Very strange. If Gerrans is a coward all sprinters are cowards but they are just doing their job. The idea is to win not lose with style. Gerrans is not a good TT rider so he is only riding to his strengths unless he is supposed to attack like Cancellara or GVA get caught and lose. Not very smart when you have a sprint like Gerrans.

I don't really have a problem with Gerrans trying to win whichever way he can. Nevertheless, I don't like it when he does win, because it means the race will usually have been quite boring. I'm not sure why fans - who are watching for entertainment - should be pleased when a guy wins who just tries to follow wheels and jump past other riders in the last few metres; that's not very entertaining to watch for a neutral fan. It's great for Gerrans' palmares and he is certainly making the most of his ability in terms of results - but it's just a bit boring.

Also, I don't think anyone is calling Gerrans cowardly, just that racing in general has become so cowardly (everyone waiting for the last climb), and that is how he has been able to win the big races. Of course that's not his fault, but as a general fan of cycling it's not really something to be pleased about.

 

[Netserk]

I'm happy when Gerrans wins (well partly), as that is what his opponents deserve when they fail to dislodge him, often due to cowardice. If he wasn't around and someone like Valverde or Kwiatkowski would win instead in the same scenario where Gerrans would win, they would work for that scenario to happen more often instead of creating a different scenario. The more dominating Gerrans can be in the reduced bunch sprint scenario, the greater incentive will there be for others to avoid said scenario.

 

[bala v]

Re: Re:

What about Jelle Vanendert, the Zubeldia of the hills? No one seems to care about him, but he is always solid in the Ardennes.

Of course he is an outsider but the problem is he doesn't have the pure power the other guys do, it's similar to with Dan Martin, unless they get away in a decent move a little earlier they just won't be able to compete with Gilbert, Valverde, Kwiatkowski and maybe Matthews on the real powerclimb, of course I would love to be proven wrong

A few years ago, though, that was Simon Gerrans: the guy who once was a threat because of good tactical riding, who threw it all away to be a guy who came around about 7th in the uphill sprint finish in every hilly Classic. It was only when he really developed his sprint to the point where he would be a favourite from a reduced bunch that he became the rider he's now known as, and the racing has got so cowardly that it allows him to use his one weapon to win.

Also, Dan Martin is very much not a placements rider. He's a guy who has gained a lot of his palmarès out of others' cowardice, but not because he profits from cowardice like Gerrans, but because he's prepared to take a risk when nobody else wants to make the race.

And how many wins has Valverde had by riding like Gerrans ? Gerrans like Valverde is a better sprinter than a climber but they have the balance that enables them to win hilly classics or even not so hilly classics. Valverde was never going to win a Tour and Gerrans used to be just a stage hunter. I have never understood the hate for Gerrans when he is only doing what others do but is more successful at it. Maybe if he ran placings instead of winning, people would like him more. Very strange. If Gerrans is a coward all sprinters are cowards but they are just doing their job. The idea is to win not lose with style. Gerrans is not a good TT rider so he is only riding to his strengths unless he is supposed to attack like Cancellara or GVA get caught and lose. Not very smart when you have a sprint like Gerrans.

Valverde is a climber who can sprint, and Gerrans is some kind of a sprinter who can be competitive on shorter climbs. They are not even close

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Funny Poels, has never done well in the ardennes classics and was sick last week. Why does he think he deserves a free role

 

[Jagartrott]

Important for Sunday: what will the wind (direction) be the last two kilometers?
Seems like it will be a faint tailwind?

 

[pastronef]

Re:

Funny Poels, has never done well in the ardennes classics and was sick last week. Why does he think he deserves a free role

Besloten om toch te starten a.s zondag! Natuurlijk wel met andere verwachtingen maar ben blij dat kan rijden

now he says he's glad to ride (maybe that was a previous interview)
anyway he won't be there full 100% form after his bad last week back from Tenerife

 

[Brullnux]

Re: Re:

What about Jelle Vanendert, the Zubeldia of the hills? No one seems to care about him, but he is always solid in the Ardennes.

Of course he is an outsider but the problem is he doesn't have the pure power the other guys do, it's similar to with Dan Martin, unless they get away in a decent move a little earlier they just won't be able to compete with Gilbert, Valverde, Kwiatkowski and maybe Matthews on the real powerclimb, of course I would love to be proven wrong

Amstel Gold 2014
1. Gilbert
2. Vanendert +5
3.Gerrans +6
I think you may be underestimating him

Just looking at startlist, why is Bonifazio in Lampre's team? I didn't think he could climb. I am also angry at OGE for not bringing any of the Yates brothers. Simon is in great form and is suited to the Ardennes, and Adam has shown what he can do against the big boys at San Sebastián, although he crashed. Would've also liked to have seen Formolo, Moser and Villella at Cannondale Garmin, not Bettiol.

 

[Jspear]

Re: Re:

What about Jelle Vanendert, the Zubeldia of the hills? No one seems to care about him, but he is always solid in the Ardennes.

Of course he is an outsider but the problem is he doesn't have the pure power the other guys do, it's similar to with Dan Martin, unless they get away in a decent move a little earlier they just won't be able to compete with Gilbert, Valverde, Kwiatkowski and maybe Matthews on the real powerclimb, of course I would love to be proven wrong

Amstel Gold 2014
1. Gilbert
2. Vanendert +5
3.Gerrans +6
I think you may be underestimating him

Just looking at startlist, why is Bonifazio in Lampre's team? I didn't think he could climb. I am also angry at OGE for not bringing any of the Yates brothers. Simon is in great form and is suited to the Ardennes, and Adam has shown what he can do against the big boys at San Sebastián, although he crashed. Would've also liked to have seen Formolo, Moser and Villella at Cannondale Garmin, not Bettiol.

They are bringing Simon for FW...don't know about LBL. Amstel suits Matthews more. Leave the other two for Simon.

 

[Sasquatch]

Re: Re:

What about Jelle Vanendert, the Zubeldia of the hills? No one seems to care about him, but he is always solid in the Ardennes.

Of course he is an outsider but the problem is he doesn't have the pure power the other guys do, it's similar to with Dan Martin, unless they get away in a decent move a little earlier they just won't be able to compete with Gilbert, Valverde, Kwiatkowski and maybe Matthews on the real powerclimb, of course I would love to be proven wrong

Amstel Gold 2014
1. Gilbert
2. Vanendert +5
3.Gerrans +6
I think you may be underestimating him

Just looking at startlist, why is Bonifazio in Lampre's team? I didn't think he could climb. I am also angry at OGE for not bringing any of the Yates brothers. Simon is in great form and is suited to the Ardennes, and Adam has shown what he can do against the big boys at San Sebastián, although he crashed. Would've also liked to have seen Formolo, Moser and Villella at Cannondale Garmin, not Bettiol.

Bonifazio can climb.

 

[SafeBet]

Re: Re:

Just looking at startlist, why is Bonifazio in Lampre's team?

He won GP Lugano.
Which obviously does not translate to being competitive in AGR, but he can climb.