2015-Tour de Yorkshire (2.1)-1.05/3.05

[Libertine Seguros]

This stage really over-delivered. The parcours over the three days is actually rather disappointing for what Yorkshire has to offer, but for once, rather than the riders neutering a good route, they actually delivered on the opportunities the organizers gave them (which is something of a rarity in modern cycling).

The factor of it being new and cycling being on people's minds in the UK at the time makes for a good spectacle as well. Maybe in a few years when it becomes part of the scenery people won't make such a big deal of it, or maybe if the bottom falls out of British cycling like happened with German cycling it will all go awry but now is the time to strike while the iron is hot.

I don't know about World Tour races, this and the Tour of Britain being .HC seem right to me - you've got a good mix of teams while still giving the national teams something to target thus ensuring they still get the benefit of development opportunities testing themselves against the top riders when they roll into town.

With all the posts of medium mountain possibilities around Britain, what I've said before and what I continue to believe is that the Tour of Britain should market itself as the stage race par excellence for Classics riders. There are cobbled hills in West Yorkshire that could make a monster stage (this was my attempt to prove that) as well as the short killer climb in Swansea they used in 2010. There are potential behemoth Ardennes-type stages in North Yorkshire with the climbs of the old Milk Raceas well as the Dartmoor climbs and Peak District climbs often used in the Tour of Britain; Scotland, the Lake District and Wales have some potential short-to-mid length steep climbs to bait the Lombardia types; throw in a nice stage baiting the wind and a TT of 15-20km and you could have one of the toughest stage races around. You could almost have a stage to mimic the style of each monument (Roubaix would obviously be the hardest to mimic, but a long flat stage with a couple of climbs near the end, a stage with a number of cobbled hills, an up-and-down all day stage and a tough climbing day with some medium mountains and shorter ones close to the end), a sprint, an ITT and an echelon-bait stage, and there's a week's pain right there.

The problem is that road cycling has been sold in Britain on the success in the Tour. Like the German boom in cycling before it, in fact. The Deutschlandtour's biggest flaw was that as a result of that it aimed to ape the style of the Tour, meaning Austrian MTFs and not making enough use of the excellent mid-mountain terrain or the massive amounts of cobbled roads left in the former DDR to make a race that truly made use of the characteristics of bike racing in Germany. The Brits are getting by fine for the moment, especially with the patronage of Wiggins, whose decision to target Roubaix the last couple of years is beneficial as he can show up for more or less any parcours and have an interest; I can't really see any present British races holding any interest for Froome, for example. Hopefully British cycling is able to successfully avoid these traps (the lack of proper Alpine-sized climbs will help in this respect) and make their races something that is truly representative of what racing in Britain can be about.

 

[argyllflyer]

Re:

Does anyone know what category the climbs are/were?

Edit: I'd guess they were all 2 but not sure...

None of the official profiles had any numbers on them. They are more like the ones ASO use for Liege-Bastogne-Liege.

 

[jens_attacks]

yorkshire better than all classics so far....
i hope voeckler and samy can get sunday's stage
awesome action so far

 

[JRanton]

Re:

Lotto Jumbo's last chance to avoid an unwanted record tomorrow.

What's the record? Longest time a world tour team has gone without a win?

 

[argyllflyer]

Re:

I don't know about World Tour races, this and the Tour of Britain being .HC seem right to me - you've got a good mix of teams while still giving the national teams something to target thus ensuring they still get the benefit of development opportunities testing themselves against the top riders when they roll into town.

The problem is that road cycling has been sold in Britain on the success in the Tour. Like the German boom in cycling before it, in fact. The Deutschlandtour's biggest flaw was that as a result of that it aimed to ape the style of the Tour, meaning Austrian MTFs and not making enough use of the excellent mid-mountain terrain or the massive amounts of cobbled roads left in the former DDR to make a race that truly made use of the characteristics of bike racing in Germany. The Brits are getting by fine for the moment, especially with the patronage of Wiggins, whose decision to target Roubaix the last couple of years is beneficial as he can show up for more or less any parcours and have an interest; I can't really see any present British races holding any interest for Froome, for example. Hopefully British cycling is able to successfully avoid these traps (the lack of proper Alpine-sized climbs will help in this respect) and make their races something that is truly representative of what racing in Britain can be about.

This is a 2.1 for this edition rather than the .HC categorization that the other two big UK races were given in 2014. It came up on another forum that Adam Blythe wants a WT race in the UK, but as you say these races serve a purpose in helping promote British cycling. Spain has 4 WT races that exclude any potential Spanish Continental team - if San Sebastian, Pais Vasco and Catalunya were 1/2.HC would that not give more impetus to the domestic scene, cash crises apart? Blythe would not have been able to enter and win RideLondon-Surrey if it had been a WT race - maybe he'd still be with NFTO.

I'm not sure how much it matters about whether this apes the Tour or not. A lot of people at the roadside are pretty clueless about who anyone is anyway. The Brits like a freebie and that will keep them turning up. Look at the London marathon for another example and those guys have even less profile than cyclists (IMO).

I watch pretty much any televised race across the world and crowds are *usually* abysmal outside the last 500m unless it's a big classic or grand tour. Maybe it's novelty but there are plenty of new races that don't get the crowds out.

 

[JRanton]

Do you think it would be better to have this race during the week after Roubaix? Obviously there's the clash with Brabantse Pijl and it would follow soon after Pais Vasco so maybe not. Having said that neither Valverde or Alaphilippe rode either of those races. The problem in its current place is that it suits riders who will mostly stop after LBL.

 

[TMP402]

Re:

Do you think it would be better to have this race during the week after Roubaix? Obviously there's the clash with Brabantse Pijl and it would follow soon after Pais Vasco so maybe not. Having said that neither Valverde or Alaphilippe rode either of those races. The problem in its current place is that it suits riders who will mostly stop after LBL.

Interesting point. I would prefer to have the "TdY" in between the OhN-KBK opening weekend and Strade Bianche, making it a useful warmup for Paris-Nice or Tirreno-Adriatico.

Otherwise I would have it at the same time as the Tour de Pologne for less predictable racing.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re: Re:

This is a 2.1 for this edition rather than the .HC categorization that the other two big UK races were given in 2014. It came up on another forum that Adam Blythe wants a WT race in the UK, but as you say these races serve a purpose in helping promote British cycling. Spain has 4 WT races that exclude any potential Spanish Continental team - if San Sebastian, Pais Vasco and Catalunya were 1/2.HC would that not give more impetus to the domestic scene, cash crises apart? Blythe would not have been able to enter and win RideLondon-Surrey if it had been a WT race - maybe he'd still be with NFTO.

I'm not sure how much it matters about whether this apes the Tour or not. A lot of people at the roadside are pretty clueless about who anyone is anyway. The Brits like a freebie and that will keep them turning up. Look at the London marathon for another example and those guys have even less profile than cyclists (IMO).

I watch pretty much any televised race across the world and crowds are *usually* abysmal outside the last 500m unless it's a big classic or grand tour. Maybe it's novelty but there are plenty of new races that don't get the crowds out.

On races like Catalunya and País Vasco I think it's a dangerous idea to move them away from the WT at present. País Vasco is a prestigious enough race, but poor Catalunya is one of the oldest stage races in the world, and the WT status, though expensive, is a large part of what keeps it alive as with the financial issues at present, not having the guarantee of at least some of the top names in the world coming in will hurt it. The Spanish continental scene is weak at present, and while it needs impetus, there are not enough teams in Spain at present to justify a .HC race, and the biggest Spanish names in the sport at present are aging. San Sebastián, let's see where the new route takes it first. If there were a number of Spanish continental teams (the registration requirements in Spain are fairly tough, hence you get a few teams like Gios-Deyser or Keith Mobel who are registered elsewhere but have a set of Spanish riders who do the .1 races in Spain while their local riders to the team's registration do races elsewhere) then .HC status could have a benefit but at present I don't think it would help. The problems Spanish cycling has are elsewhere than Catalunya and País Vasco being WT, because the problem is the loss of racing days and the prohibitive start-up costs, which downgrading those races won't help. On the plus side, Asturias is back this year, only 2 racing days, and 11 teams. The loss of the WT teams has been the biggest problem I think, because too much of the national scene at present is Continental guys and Portuguese minimum wagers being beaten up by Movistar and Caja Rural, so the races have lost a lot of their lustre for external WT teams (Garmin-Cannondale, Orica and a couple of others do the races around the same time as Catalunya and País Vasco as warmup races, but the likes of Castilla y León have fallen dramatically in the last five years).

At present, support for cycling outside of a couple of key areas in Spain is pretty low compared to a decade ago. Therefore the divide between the WT and the domestic .HC and .1 races is pretty huge, with only one or two exceptions (Burgos, which is the Vuelta's traditional warmup race and draws a good field, and Andalucía, which is an early season tune-up race). In Britain at the moment, because of the novelty factor, the current successes, and other points you allude to, the races don't need to be WT; they're drawing good fields for the type of race that they are. This race being in early May, it's basically a British version of the Quatre Jours. The Classics riders are coming off their peak and the race isn't built for the GC men. They aren't likely to get that much better a field from the race if they go WT, and it helps the domestic scene. While there wouldn't be any obvious Euskaltel-at-Roubaix standouts here, where there IS the scope to replace some of the lesser WT teams who wouldn't add much with national riders who are going all out to be noticed. As you say, Blythe may call for a WT race in the UK, but if the London race had got that, he'd probably still be with NFTO.

I suppose at the end of the day, I don't think that at present the British races need to be WT, they're doing fine, and they're young so they're still being built up. WT status doesn't help the British races at present, because they're in the best spot they can be now - they get the best of both worlds. The Tour of Britain has been upgraded from 2.1 to 2.HC because it has shown an improvement in course, in field, and in interest and has organically grown. The Spanish races are going through a lean time, but they have long had that growth, years back, and now they have history and prestige that merits protecting (as opposed to, say, Beijing, which nobody really cared about the loss of), and in a few years' time hopefully the scene will bounce back (look at Portugal, at a lower level - four years ago just four Continental teams and some very lean race fields, they've revamped registration and the emergence of Rui Costa has helped the sport pick up some momentum again, now there are 7 national teams, who are stronger than they were before, and although there are still many problems with lack of finance compared to 10-15 years ago, the momentum is forward rather than backward. Spanish cycling will re-emerge at some point.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Finally got to see the stage.
Great racing. Narrow and twisty road and no team radios can make a big difference.
Fantastic crowds.

Up there with SB for best race day so far.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Really good day's racing. Deignan was in total beast mode all day and is due some personal credit for making the race so fun.

There was an amusing no radios moment early in the GVA's chase after the large break when two BMC men were pushing on the front of the break.

 

[Tank Engine]

Re:

Lotto Jumbo's last chance to avoid an unwanted record tomorrow.

With Swift and Kittel out, the plains around York look like a great hunting ground for Hofland.

 

[Jagartrott]

Re:

yorkshire better than all classics so far....

Don't be ridiculous.

 

[argyllflyer]

Re: Re:

cut

Thanks for the reply LS - lots of good stuff there about the root of the Spanish problems.

 

[TourOfSardinia]

Quarter of a million on the road side yesterday

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-32562253

 

[rainman]

Great terrain, crowds and racing. Maybe the worst problem going forward in a heavily populated island is getting the roads closed.

 

[Sasquatch]

Sutton could surprise today. He'll be Sky's man now for the sprint.

 

[Pricey_sky]

Sutton could surprise today. He'll be Sky's man now for the sprint.

I agree he could do something with the big two out. Not sure wether Sky will want to chase all day though with a rider down and loads of riders yesterday who lost time, let the break go and if it's full of riders 7+ minutes down I doubt they will chase to bring it back. It will be up to teams like NFTO and IAM with Van Hoff/Pelucchi to chase.

 

[TourOfSardinia]

Break of the day

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Hofland! Wow, Lotto-Jumbo break their duck...

 

[TourOfSardinia]

Nice try by GvA

 

[DBotero]

Hofland,they really needed this win

 

[argyllflyer]

Today's stage as dull as yesterday's was exciting.

 

[Tank Engine]

Hofland,they really needed this win

You heard it here first

 

[DBotero]

Hofland,they really needed this win

You heard it here first

Spot on

 

[Velolover2]

Sanchez is now number 2. He must have picked up some bonus seconds.