2016 Giro d'Italia - Castelrotto – Alpe di Siusi 10.8 km MTT

[Libertine Seguros]

Re:

its not a surprise to see so many ppl mad about the backlash foliforov gets on this forum...when roglic almost won and then won a TT there was very little if any talk about wink wink stuff

i wonder what would happen if his name was alexandre folifouroff riding for a good ol french team

Rogla has a thread in the Clinic. But another factor on why he didn't get the same reaction (and I don't think Foliforov deserves the level of reaction he's getting either) is that some people have been hyping Rogla for two years now given his performances for Adria Mobil after his late start to the sport. He's not been picked up by a WT team until this year because he was still very raw but the talent was obviously there considering he only started riding in his early 20s after his ski jump accident. He'd done decent time trials and also shown obvious climbing talent. What we're seeing now is that he's still got problems in respect of riding in a crowded bunch (much larger péloton here, he's used to riding in groups of up to 120 rather than 200, and not at WT speed either) and technical issues that come with that, but he's useful against the clock in a longer TT too, which was a total crapshoot as he'd never done one. And of course, the weather last week made a huge difference which meant his win could be chalked down to luck more than Foliforov's today because the main contenders went in the rain.

 

[ciranda]

Re: 2016 Giro d'Italia - Castelrotto – Alpe di Siusi 10.8 km

So, two guys with very minimal palmares on the same Russian team finish fist and fifth in an uphill TT. That's not suspicious. "Mechanical doping" goes mainstream in the Giro.

Foliforov is neopro with great performances in u23 mountains, Firsanov has been quality for years and years. By comparison Kruiswijk's palmares at this point last year was like a slightly better Francis de Greef.

 

[ILovecycling]

Re:

They should really buy some non-smudge lipstick for those girls.

Why? Its nice

 

[Jelantik]

Re: Re:

Quite frankly -Kruijswijk has just enough buffer to carry the maglia rosa all the way to Turin-barring of course either a bad day or an accident. He's climbing superbly matching Chaves & much better than Nibs....... We'll see how he behaves in the last wee- which looks exciting !!

Basically, you are right. He just has to be very attentive because of the weak team. He has no room for errors. He needs to tie a rope to the back of Nibali.

I don't think Kruijswijk has it in the bag, he 's in very nice position, but that was Contadors as well and then came that famous stage where he almost lost it, one bad day is all that's needed.

Kruiswijks advantage is not extremely big neither...

No, but if Kruijswijk was known for one thing, it was his extremely strong 3rd week. If he still has that. Then there is no way, he will only get stronger.

agreed. Last year he was strong in the third week. Unfortunately, he lost a lot of time in the opening week to contes for podium. So I would expect he will be doing OK in third week.

 

[Jakub]

Re: Re:

Gee, Jakub was joking.

I wasn't, before 1.1.1993 I would have been sure, but now...

 

[Red Rick]

Re: 2016 Giro d'Italia - Castelrotto – Alpe di Siusi 10.8 km

So, 6 more stages, 2 flat, one very interesting medium mountain stage and 3 mountain stages.

Tuesday probably not as important as the other two since the final climb just isnt super hard, the Pinerolo stage could be great but the advantage for Kruijswijk is that there is only one climb so it will only be about strength and Nibali can't use his team as effectively as in the other stages, stage 19 is a mtf so actually advantage Kruijswijk again, but considering the situation in the gc right now I can even imagine that something will happen on the Agnello and then stage 20 should be one big firework (except Kruijswijk gains another two minutes on everyone else until then, then there will only be fights for the podium)

Those stages are easy for LottoJumbo, just send as many in the break as you can. Especially the stage to Risoul. They can control that until the Agnel with the flat road domestiques. What happens on Col de Vars will be crucial

 

[ILovecycling]

Re: Re:

It's amazing how salty people get whenever a Russian rider wins something. Dry your eyes, please.

Please don't begin with nationalism/patriotism.

You are the absolute LAST person on this forum (now that Auscyclefan94 doesn't frequent it anymore) that should be saying that.

I don't think so, so far I haven't recognized which country is Kokoso from!

Unrecognizeable

Lol Kubo ,... I think we all are from the same country

 

[Kokoso]

Re: Re:

It's amazing how salty people get whenever a Russian rider wins something. Dry your eyes, please.

Please don't begin with nationalism/patriotism.

You are the absolute LAST person on this forum (now that Auscyclefan94 doesn't frequent it anymore) that should be saying that.

We obviously have different ideas on what nationalism or patriotism is and of COURSE mine idea is the right one for me
I just choosed random word to be written big font size because it's funny the hysterical big types

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re: 2016 Giro d'Italia - Castelrotto – Alpe di Siusi 10.8 km

So, two guys with very minimal palmares on the same Russian team finish fist and fifth in an uphill TT. That's not suspicious. "Mechanical doping" goes mainstream in the Giro.

Foliforov is neopro with great performances in u23 mountains, Firsanov has been quality for years and years. By comparison Kruiswijk's palmares at this point last year was like a slightly better Francis de Greef.

Very unfair on Kruijswijk. His problem is that his biggest strength is recovery and he rides himself into form, so he's not at his best in short stage races unless he can back them into one another, because they're not long enough for others' form to fall by the wayside and him to take advantage. He was much better in the 2011 Giro than his eventual result let on, when Contador did his little exploratory move on the Fedaia it was Kruijswijk who went with him, for example.

 

[ILovecycling]

Re: Re:

Gee, Jakub was joking.

I wasn't, before 1.1.1993 I would have been sure, but now...

Ohh I see
...
Nice ;-)

 

[Kokoso]

Re: Re:

Gee, Jakub was joking.

I wasn't, before 1.1.1993 I would have been sure, but now...

I'm Iranian of course.

 

[Gigs_98]

Re: Re:

its not a surprise to see so many ppl mad about the backlash foliforov gets on this forum...when roglic almost won and then won a TT there was very little if any talk about wink wink stuff

i wonder what would happen if his name was alexandre folifouroff riding for a good ol french team

Rogla has a thread in the Clinic. But another factor on why he didn't get the same reaction (and I don't think Foliforov deserves the level of reaction he's getting either) is that some people have been hyping Rogla for two years now given his performances for Adria Mobil after his late start to the sport. He's not been picked up by a WT team until this year because he was still very raw but the talent was obviously there considering he only started riding in his early 20s after his ski jump accident. He'd done decent time trials and also shown obvious climbing talent. What we're seeing now is that he's still got problems in respect of riding in a crowded bunch (much larger péloton here, he's used to riding in groups of up to 120 rather than 200, and not at WT speed either) and technical issues that come with that, but he's useful against the clock in a longer TT too, which was a total crapshoot as he'd never done one. And of course, the weather last week made a huge difference which meant his win could be chalked down to luck more than Foliforov's today because the main contenders went in the rain.

And although we can of course ignore the fact, because clinical reasons are really only speculation, it's just logical that people get suspicious after what happened to Russians in the last week. I don't want to say that he dopes, I just want to explain why people get suspicious.

 

[Pantani_lives]

Those who predicted small gaps were right: less than a second between #1 and #2.

 

[dacooley]

Re: 2016 Giro d'Italia - Castelrotto – Alpe di Siusi 10.8 km

So, 6 more stages, 2 flat, one very interesting medium mountain stage and 3 mountain stages.

Tuesday probably not as important as the other two since the final climb just isnt super hard, the Pinerolo stage could be great but the advantage for Kruijswijk is that there is only one climb so it will only be about strength and Nibali can't use his team as effectively as in the other stages, stage 19 is a mtf so actually advantage Kruijswijk again, but considering the situation in the gc right now I can even imagine that something will happen on the Agnello and then stage 20 should be one big firework (except Kruijswijk gains another two minutes on everyone else until then, then there will only be fights for the podium)

Those stages are easy for LottoJumbo, just send as many in the break as you can. Especially the stage to Risoul. They can control that until the Agnel with the flat road domestiques. What happens on Col de Vars will be crucial

sure if nibs is good enough to bomb the race apart. this time he looks much more vulnerable even than in the 2013 vuelta.

 

[Escarabajo]

Re: 2016 Giro d'Italia - Castelrotto – Alpe di Siusi 10.8 km

So, 6 more stages, 2 flat, one very interesting medium mountain stage and 3 mountain stages.

Tuesday probably not as important as the other two since the final climb just isnt super hard, the Pinerolo stage could be great but the advantage for Kruijswijk is that there is only one climb so it will only be about strength and Nibali can't use his team as effectively as in the other stages, stage 19 is a mtf so actually advantage Kruijswijk again, but considering the situation in the gc right now I can even imagine that something will happen on the Agnello and then stage 20 should be one big firework (except Kruijswijk gains another two minutes on everyone else until then, then there will only be fights for the podium)

Those stages are easy for LottoJumbo, just send as many in the break as you can. Especially the stage to Risoul. They can control that until the Agnel with the flat road domestiques. What happens on Col de Vars will be crucial

Those big guys will be worthless up the road in the high mountains. IMO.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re: Re:

It's amazing how salty people get whenever a Russian rider wins something. Dry your eyes, please.

Please don't begin with nationalism/patriotism.

You are the absolute LAST person on this forum (now that Auscyclefan94 doesn't frequent it anymore) that should be saying that.

We obviously have different ideas on what nationalism or patriotism is and of COURSE mine idea is the right one for me
I just choosed random word to be written big font size because it's funny the hysterical big types

Well, following people from your own nation to the exclusion of all else (with the sole exception of Peter Sagan) is a good place to start.

If exclusively following people from your own country solely because they're from your country doesn't count as patriotism to you, we have an irreconcilable difference in interpretation, and should leave this train of discussion in the station before we turn this into the XC skiing thread again

 

[jaylew]

Re:

Note: Gosh, I have to always go and do copy-paste for that complicated last name.

Same here. I think that's part of the reason Krushweak and Crushweak have taken off!

 

[Gigs_98]

Re: 2016 Giro d'Italia - Castelrotto – Alpe di Siusi 10.8 km

So, 6 more stages, 2 flat, one very interesting medium mountain stage and 3 mountain stages.

Tuesday probably not as important as the other two since the final climb just isnt super hard, the Pinerolo stage could be great but the advantage for Kruijswijk is that there is only one climb so it will only be about strength and Nibali can't use his team as effectively as in the other stages, stage 19 is a mtf so actually advantage Kruijswijk again, but considering the situation in the gc right now I can even imagine that something will happen on the Agnello and then stage 20 should be one big firework (except Kruijswijk gains another two minutes on everyone else until then, then there will only be fights for the podium)

Those stages are easy for LottoJumbo, just send as many in the break as you can. Especially the stage to Risoul. They can control that until the Agnel with the flat road domestiques. What happens on Col de Vars will be crucial

But the problem Kruijswijk has is the quality of his domestiques. Let's say Nibali attacks early on the Agnello, Kruijswijk follows and both have 2 or 3 domestiques in the break who now come back to their leaders. Nibali's two domestiques will probably be so strong that as soon as they set the pace, Kruijswijk's teammates drop again and he is isolated anyway.

 

[ciranda]

Re: 2016 Giro d'Italia - Castelrotto – Alpe di Siusi 10.8 km

So, two guys with very minimal palmares on the same Russian team finish fist and fifth in an uphill TT. That's not suspicious. "Mechanical doping" goes mainstream in the Giro.

Foliforov is neopro with great performances in u23 mountains, Firsanov has been quality for years and years. By comparison Kruiswijk's palmares at this point last year was like a slightly better Francis de Greef.

Very unfair on Kruijswijk. His problem is that his biggest strength is recovery and he rides himself into form, so he's not at his best in short stage races unless he can back them into one another, because they're not long enough for others' form to fall by the wayside and him to take advantage. He was much better in the 2011 Giro than his eventual result let on, when Contador did his little exploratory move on the Fedaia it was Kruijswijk who went with him, for example.

So maybe more like Wim van Huffel? Kruiswijk was much better in last year's Giro compared to before.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: 2016 Giro d'Italia - Castelrotto – Alpe di Siusi 10.8 km

So, 6 more stages, 2 flat, one very interesting medium mountain stage and 3 mountain stages.

Tuesday probably not as important as the other two since the final climb just isnt super hard, the Pinerolo stage could be great but the advantage for Kruijswijk is that there is only one climb so it will only be about strength and Nibali can't use his team as effectively as in the other stages, stage 19 is a mtf so actually advantage Kruijswijk again, but considering the situation in the gc right now I can even imagine that something will happen on the Agnello and then stage 20 should be one big firework (except Kruijswijk gains another two minutes on everyone else until then, then there will only be fights for the podium)

Those stages are easy for LottoJumbo, just send as many in the break as you can. Especially the stage to Risoul. They can control that until the Agnel with the flat road domestiques. What happens on Col de Vars will be crucial

Those big guys will be worthless up the road in the high mountains. IMO.

Battaglin and Roglic should be the ones up the road in that stage. Tjallingi, Tankink and the likes can control things until they hit the foot of the Agnello

 

[Brullnux]

Re: Re:

It's amazing how salty people get whenever a Russian rider wins something. Dry your eyes, please.

Please don't begin with nationalism/patriotism.

You are the absolute LAST person on this forum (now that Auscyclefan94 doesn't frequent it anymore) that should be saying that.

We obviously have different ideas on what nationalism or patriotism is and of COURSE mine idea is the right one for me
I just choosed random word to be written big font size because it's funny the hysterical big types

No, you are definitely one of the most nationalist/patriotic people on here. One bad thing about König, Kreuziger or in the biathlon thread Soukalova then you are immediately there to shout them down, ignoring the criticism entirely.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

It's amazing how salty people get whenever a Russian rider wins something. Dry your eyes, please.

Please don't begin with nationalism/patriotism.

You are the absolute LAST person on this forum (now that Auscyclefan94 doesn't frequent it anymore) that should be saying that.

We obviously have different ideas on what nationalism or patriotism is and of COURSE mine idea is the right one for me
I just choosed random word to be written big font size because it's funny the hysterical big types

Well, following people from your own nation to the exclusion of all else (with the sole exception of Peter Sagan) is a good place to start.

If exclusively following people from your own country solely because they're from your country doesn't count as patriotism to you, we have an irreconcilable difference in interpretation, and should leave this train of discussion in the station before we turn this into the XC skiing thread again

What are you talking about? Konig will win the Tour and if Kreuziger was let loose in 2013, he would probably have done the same.

Exaggerations aside (you are not that bad, Kokoso), your nationalism tends to be some of the more extreme on this forum.

 

[bassano]

Strange that Nibali lost so much, MTT should be one of his domain according to past but legs probably do not work or somethink else is wrong
it would be nice to see him attack from long distance in last week but first he need to have legs for that, right now I do not see it happening

 

[DFA123]

Re: 2016 Giro d'Italia - Castelrotto – Alpe di Siusi 10.8 km

So, 6 more stages, 2 flat, one very interesting medium mountain stage and 3 mountain stages.

Tuesday probably not as important as the other two since the final climb just isnt super hard, the Pinerolo stage could be great but the advantage for Kruijswijk is that there is only one climb so it will only be about strength and Nibali can't use his team as effectively as in the other stages, stage 19 is a mtf so actually advantage Kruijswijk again, but considering the situation in the gc right now I can even imagine that something will happen on the Agnello and then stage 20 should be one big firework (except Kruijswijk gains another two minutes on everyone else until then, then there will only be fights for the podium)

I have a feeling this could be a really epic stage. 250km long, with tired riders, but the last climb making it too hard for the sprinters teams to offer any real assistance.

Lotto-NL will struggle to control this after two days of having to defend the MR. We could even get an Oscar Pereiro moment with some breakaway rider gaining about 30 minutes and launching themselves into the GC frame.

 

[Squire]

Re: Re:

This is hilarious. Nibali what the **** were you doing?

He still has a chance to win it, let's just hope the cycling gods won't give him another break with a kruiswijk crash but i've a feeling something bad is gonna happen to kruiswijk. Hope i'm wrong

Nibali preparation was underdone according to Slongo probably to try for Giro-Tour double. Really stupid of Astana o underestimate their rivals. Vino had already stated that Nibali would win.

if this is true. Even if Nibali wins the Giro, he will arrive in the Tour just like Contador. He got drained by dealing w/ Landa + Aru and the rest of Astana team. Nibali will have to deal with the stubborn Chavez and Kruiswijk. Seeing him yesterday and today, he looked like he has been laboring and seem that he need to dig deep to chase those two youngster. Aside from his mech issue, Chavez and Kruiswijk are still putting a good number after leaving Nibali in the dust the day before. And I still think at the end of TT w/ his mec, Nibali still looses time to Kruiswijk.

It's funny how a lot of people call Kruijswijk a "youngster". He's one year younger than Kreuziger and older than Kristoff.