2016 Vuelta a España, stage 14: Urdax > Col d'Aubisque 196km

[carton]

Re:

Chaves, Talansky and Konig somehow gained half a minute on Froome and Quintana

Froome and Quintana don't really mind the others.

Today stoked my suspicions that Froome might've won the Tour by 10 minutes had he known Quintana wasn't a threat. Not saying that definitely or even probably the case, but maybe something worth putting out there. Despite what he says Quintana is the only rider Froome fears. They just can't seem to be able to drop each other on most days, though Froome tends to leave bigger gaps. Yates lost a bit of steam at the end.

P.S. Cheapau, Gesink!

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Gesink WINS!
And I saw the stage LIVE. WTF. The universe must have cracked today. We're doomed.

 

[Big Doopie]

Re: 2016 Vuelta a España, stage 14: Urdax > Col d'Aubisque 1

talansky attacked fairly early on the aubisque - before sanchez (and well before chavez). eurosport showed him coming towards the camera and passing by but neither commentator said anything. lol.

however, he is now in 8th (!!).

if he comes on stronger in the third week as he used to and is in his best TT form (see california tour), he could succeed even at bettering his 7th from a few years back - his pre-race goal.

:surprised:

 

[Springveldt]

Re: Re:

I hope Froome isn't relying on his ITT. Otherwise today might be a missed opportunity for him.

Do you really think that if he could drop Quintana that he wouldn't do that? Froome would never let an opportunity like that go. He was on the limit as well, obviously.

I think today was more of Quintana's day to drop Froome, rather than the other way 'round.

If, Quintana's (supposed) greatest advantage against Froome is multiple-climb, high mountain stages, then this is the best stage for that in the Vuelta. Therefore, the burden is on Quintana to capitalize on his strength.Froome needed to do no more than simply hold Quintana's wheel and attack if Quintana was uncharacteristically weak.

The remaining summit finishes, because of their relative lack of climbing before, suit Froome. And the ITT obviously favors Froome as well.

Spot on imho. After blowing up and giving away 30 seconds earlier I think Froome was a little gun shy today. He now knows he can take everything Nairo can throw at him, if it's the same situation tomorrow I'd place money on Froome attacking him at some point.

With a long flat ITT, Froome knows he will take way more than 54 seconds on Nairo so he is in the driving seat now imho.

 

[Põhja Konn]

Re: Re:

Great win by Gesink. He is so great to watch. I could feel the pain, and I was on my couch.
Anyway, clearly Froome was on his limit as well, otherwise he would try to at least gain a few seconds on the final.

What's next?

Froome didn't need to waste any energy, he'll pick it up in the ITT.

He has shown repeatedly, that he does counterattacks when he has the legs. Even with a small time gain, the psychological blow of successful counterattack to Quintana would have been huge. The fact Froome didn't even try shows quite unequivocally that he was at his limit.

 

[SafeBet]

Bobby almost made me cry with his slow-mo 400 metres sprint. Great to see him back on the podium!

Also, finally a good performance from Formolo.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

I hope Froome isn't relying on his ITT. Otherwise today might be a missed opportunity for him.

Do you really think that if he could drop Quintana that he wouldn't do that? Froome would never let an opportunity like that go. He was on the limit as well, obviously.

I think today was more of Quintana's day to drop Froome, rather than the other way 'round.

If, Quintana's (supposed) greatest advantage against Froome is multiple-climb, high mountain stages, then this is the best stage for that in the Vuelta. Therefore, the burden is on Quintana to capitalize on his strength.Froome needed to do no more than simply hold Quintana's wheel and attack if Quintana was uncharacteristically weak.

The remaining summit finishes, because of their relative lack of climbing before, suit Froome. And the ITT obviously favors Froome as well.

Spot on imho. After blowing up and giving away 30 seconds earlier I think Froome was a little gun shy today. He now knows he can take everything Nairo can throw at him, if it's the same situation tomorrow I'd place money on Froome attacking him at some point.

With a long flat ITT, Froome knows he will take way more than 54 seconds on Nairo so he is in the driving seat now imho.

Not sure where this myth has come from, but this TT is far from flat. It's rolling throughout, with a couple of more sustained climbs. Plus it's fairly twisty and technical in places, with a lot of tightish bends before climbs which break rhythm.

 

[Sky train]

Chris has executed perfect defense today without showing any sign of weakness today.
I guess we already know this race winner's name.
On Quintana's place I would rather consentrated on defending 2nd position, 2 minutes advantage over Konig/Yates not that comfortable considering his TT level.

 

[Billie]

Re:

Big Chris has executed perfect defense today, I guess you agree that we know this race winner's name.
On Quintana's place I would rather consentrated on defending 2nd position, 2 minutes advantage over Konig/Yates not that comfortable considering his TT level.

july fans in september

 

[MatParker117]

Re: Re:

I hope Froome isn't relying on his ITT. Otherwise today might be a missed opportunity for him.

Do you really think that if he could drop Quintana that he wouldn't do that? Froome would never let an opportunity like that go. He was on the limit as well, obviously.

I think today was more of Quintana's day to drop Froome, rather than the other way 'round.

If, Quintana's (supposed) greatest advantage against Froome is multiple-climb, high mountain stages, then this is the best stage for that in the Vuelta. Therefore, the burden is on Quintana to capitalize on his strength.Froome needed to do no more than simply hold Quintana's wheel and attack if Quintana was uncharacteristically weak.

The remaining summit finishes, because of their relative lack of climbing before, suit Froome. And the ITT obviously favors Froome as well.

Spot on imho. After blowing up and giving away 30 seconds earlier I think Froome was a little gun shy today. He now knows he can take everything Nairo can throw at him, if it's the same situation tomorrow I'd place money on Froome attacking him at some point.

With a long flat ITT, Froome knows he will take way more than 54 seconds on Nairo so he is in the driving seat now imho.

Not sure where this myth has come from, but this TT is far from flat. It's rolling throughout, with a couple of more sustained climbs. Plus it's fairly twisty and technical in places, with a lot of tightish bends before climbs which break rhythm.

You mean like the rolling TT at the tour where Froome put 2:05 on him?

 

[AlexNYC]

Re:

Big Chris has executed perfect defense today, I guess you agree that we know this race winner's name.
On Quintana's place I would rather consentrated on defending 2nd position, 2 minutes advantage over Konig/Yates not that comfortable considering his TT level.

LOL let's all thank god you're nowhere near his place

 

[Sky train]

Re:

Bennett 12th on GC, Molard 20th.

WTF?

cause Bennett finished only minute before Froome

 

[Gloin22]

Re: Re:

Do you really think that if he could drop Quintana that he wouldn't do that? Froome would never let an opportunity like that go. He was on the limit as well, obviously.

You mean like the rolling TT at the tour where Froome put 2:05 on him?

Pointless to include any TT's from this year Tour, Quintana was just in bad shape altogether

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

Orica's strategy today is a real mystery.

Perhaps they just want to make Sky work hard and isolate Froome for the final climb. Seems pretty ambitious to think Chaves could distance him, but not much else makes sense.

The plan was to make Sky work hard in the peleton - It was helped by Moreno being in the break - And they are also looking ahead to further stages.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

You mean like the rolling TT at the tour where Froome put 2:05 on him?

Not too dissimilar, although the hills in the Tour TT were a bit longer.

Obviously no-one in their right mind would expect Froome to put in the same gap to Quintana on current form though. The level between them is way, way closer now than during the Tour.

 

[Ataraxus]

Re: Re:

I hope Froome isn't relying on his ITT. Otherwise today might be a missed opportunity for him.

Do you really think that if he could drop Quintana that he wouldn't do that? Froome would never let an opportunity like that go. He was on the limit as well, obviously.

I think today was more of Quintana's day to drop Froome, rather than the other way 'round.

If, Quintana's (supposed) greatest advantage against Froome is multiple-climb, high mountain stages, then this is the best stage for that in the Vuelta. Therefore, the burden is on Quintana to capitalize on his strength.Froome needed to do no more than simply hold Quintana's wheel and attack if Quintana was uncharacteristically weak.

The remaining summit finishes, because of their relative lack of climbing before, suit Froome. And the ITT obviously favors Froome as well.

Spot on imho. After blowing up and giving away 30 seconds earlier I think Froome was a little gun shy today. He now knows he can take everything Nairo can throw at him, if it's the same situation tomorrow I'd place money on Froome attacking him at some point.

With a long flat ITT, Froome knows he will take way more than 54 seconds on Nairo so he is in the driving seat now imho.

Not sure where this myth has come from, but this TT is far from flat. It's rolling throughout, with a couple of more sustained climbs. Plus it's fairly twisty and technical in places, with a lot of tightish bends before climbs which break rhythm.

1- The Calp TT is one of the flattest TTs introduced in the Vuelta recently (only last year Burgos was SLIGHTLY flatter)
2- The bends is a 3km segment in la Fustera and its not that tight. Plus bends might favor Froome more than Quintana leaving the quality gap in TT almos unchanged.
3- If you want Quintana to have increasing chances you better start praying for a no-wind day, which, given the location of Xabia and Calp, Cycling Poseidons won't listen to you most probably.

 

[TI-Raleigh]

Re: Re:

I hope Froome isn't relying on his ITT. Otherwise today might be a missed opportunity for him.

Do you really think that if he could drop Quintana that he wouldn't do that? Froome would never let an opportunity like that go. He was on the limit as well, obviously.

I think today was more of Quintana's day to drop Froome, rather than the other way 'round.

If, Quintana's (supposed) greatest advantage against Froome is multiple-climb, high mountain stages, then this is the best stage for that in the Vuelta. Therefore, the burden is on Quintana to capitalize on his strength.Froome needed to do no more than simply hold Quintana's wheel and attack if Quintana was uncharacteristically weak.

The remaining summit finishes, because of their relative lack of climbing before, suit Froome. And the ITT obviously favors Froome as well.

Eh? He's lost a minute to Quintana on these type of finishes already in the race. They are the climbs Quintana has been capitalising on so far, and there are plenty more to come.

Generally, the conclusion I have drawn about Froome from his general body of work,is that he is at his best relative to others on summit finishes that are ____/. Surely, you would not disagree with that?

The weaknesses Froome has shown, especially relative to Quintana, are on multiple-climb, high mountain stages late in GTs. SO, logically it follows that if Quintana cannnot capitalize on his strength relative to Froome in this Vuelta, that the advantage goes to Froome.

Now, I do concede that the Vuelta may digress from the pattern of old for several reasons. However, I still believe Froome is in a great position going forward to utilize his strengths relative to Nairo.

 

[dacooley]

Re: Re:

Big Chris has executed perfect defense today, I guess you agree that we know this race winner's name.
On Quintana's place I would rather consentrated on defending 2nd position, 2 minutes advantage over Konig/Yates not that comfortable considering his TT level.

july fans in september

the fact that quintana wasn't able to gap froome one the stage that suited him perfectly only confirms how unpredictable the things can unfold given both of them already have gt in the legs, so froome gaining 1'30''-2' on quintana seems to be in reach.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Re:

Bobby almost made me cry with his slow-mo 400 metres sprint. Great to see him back on the podium!

Also, finally a good performance from Formolo.

It's funny it looks like a slow mo sprint. It's actually quite fast uphill. It's simply a huge gear he is turning. Same way he outsprinted Froome on La Covadonga. It's not as slow as it looks

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

Cort, Keukeleire and Gerrans would be a strong trio for Yates in the valley before Aubisque if they weren't all cooked from doing seemingly pointless work in the break all day.

Yes, exactly.

Oh, Orica.....

Except it wasn't pointless. They burnt out Sky's domestiques by forcing them to chase all day. Yates attacked as soon as Knees dropped off the front; that's not just a coincidence.

100% correct - This is the type of tactic I've been calling for since the TDF - Life can go on in mountain stages with SKY being allowed a Sunday afternoon ride in the flat/valley parts of the stage and then we wonder why Sky climbers can hit such a high tempo in the mountains.

 

[Billie]

Good move by Orica indeed. Yates very strong. 3 and 4 now in GC they should continue like this

 

[Sky train]

But it would be funny to see if Konig or Contador will spoil their podium party.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

1- The Calp TT is one of the flattest TTs introduced in the Vuelta recently (only last year Burgos was flatter)
2- The bends is a 3km segment in la Fustera and its not that tight. Plus bends might favor Froome more than Quintana leaving the quality gap in TT almos unchanged.
3- If you want Quintana to have increasing chances you better start praying for a no-wind day, which, given the location of Xabia and Calp, Cycling Poseidons won't listen to you most probably.

It may well be one of the flattest TTs used in recent Vuelta's; but, that's not really relevant. The point is, that it's not flat.

And it is way more bendy than you are making out. I ride these roads pretty regularly, and can confidently say that the profile doesn't do it's difficulty justice. It's not the kind of circuit where you can sit into a steady rhythm and just churn a big gear throughout - it's way more stop-start.

Don't think the wind will be much of a factor either, unless la gota fría comes in. Because the prevailing wind comes from the east, and most of the route is shielded by hills in that direction.

 

[SafeBet]

Re: Re:

Bobby almost made me cry with his slow-mo 400 metres sprint. Great to see him back on the podium!

Also, finally a good performance from Formolo.

It's funny it looks like a slow mo sprint. It's actually quite fast uphill. It's simply a huge gear he is turning. Same way he outsprinted Froome on La Covadonga. It's not as slow as it looks

I know, but it's really odd to see.
I gotta say when they crossed the red triangle banner together I was 100% sure he would have won. He's the master of the zombie sprint.

 

[TMP402]

Re:

Maybe Froome didn't attack because Konig was up the road and didn't want to drag anyone to him? Could be a possibility with Sky trying to get another rider high in GC because Vuelta

That would be a very secondary consideration.