2018 La Fleche Wallonne

[Jagartrott]

Re: Re:

Lotto rode like morons. Lost all respect for Benoot and Wellens.

Lol stop crying. They would've been 8th or so if they didn't try to close the gap with Benoot. Now they are 3th, what do you think they prefer?

The real mistake was to ride for Wellens and not for Vanendert, but who could've known Vanendert was gonna be this strong.

He was great in Itzulia and has a track record of peaking right for the Ardennes.
He's probably the best puncheur on the team, when he's in shape (only 3 weeks durning the whole season).

Perhaps it was actually good that Vanendert was able to ride his own tempo on that climb the whole time (and not fight for position etc.). Only the bit at the foot may have cost him second - I don't think he would've beaten Julian.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Great edition of Fléche. The hard edition and the fact that Huy was climbed differently probably made the difference today, Alaphilippe was mighty strong tho.

Nibali with a great attack, but still a disappointing performance psychically. Definitely not winning Liege.

 

[Yingge]

No break is safe with the Mur at the end of the race. 30 seconds means nothing at the bottom of that climb. And its far steeper than it looks, walking up it a few years back was hard enough, let alone after 200km of riding.

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

MVP Schachmann, what a ride by him!

What about Haig ?

 

[DFA123]

Re:

Great edition of Fléche. The hard edition and the fact that Huy was climbed differently probably made the difference today, Alaphilippe was mighty strong tho.

Nibali with a great attack, but still a disappointing performance psychically. Definitely not winning Liege.

Yeah, this was a really enjoyable edition. Lots of tension, action from afar, a break which looked like it might make it at one point. But we also still got the showdown between the big names on the Mur. A near perfect edition of Fleche, imo.

 

[El Pistolero]

Re: Re:

wait, wait, it turns out that the best puncheurs in the world know what they are doing when they wait for the Mur? But everyone here assured us that they are suicidal morons riding for Valverde?

QS never rode on the front of the peloton: UAE, Dimension Data and Lotto did.

Yes they did. They pushed a ferocious pace in the last 5km of the race - especially Jungels, shaving about 20 seconds off the advantage of the break. Even chasing down their own team-mate (who may have won otherwise!).

They clearly would have done that move at whatever point they deemed it necessary to get Alaphilippe into a winning position.

The break was already doomed by that point. They were riding on front to be in a good position once they hit the Mur. Basically QS rode a brilliant race. Kudos to them.

 

[jaylew]

When I saw Valverde sitting a little far back near the end of the steep bit you could tell he didn't have it to win. Usually he would have been right near the front without having to close a gap. Honestly, when I saw that, I thought he would finish around 5-7th and I was surprised to see him take 2nd. Alaphillipe was simply stronger today.

 

[Jagartrott]

Re: Re:

wait, wait, it turns out that the best puncheurs in the world know what they are doing when they wait for the Mur? But everyone here assured us that they are suicidal morons riding for Valverde?

Erm, Valverde still beat everyone else.
So there's one guy for whom waiting for the Mur really worked well.

Yeah, and zero riders for whom an early attack worked.

Exactly.

Any tactic can only ever produce one winner. Riders select a tactic to maximize their chances of being that winner. If you are one of the best puncheurs in the world, that tactic is waiting for the Mur. If you aren’t one of the best puncheurs in the world you may have to get more creative, but your chances are very slim.

Schachmann ended at c. 10 seconds from the winner, and he was in the break.

 

[El Pistolero]

Re:

Great edition of Fléche. The hard edition and the fact that Huy was climbed differently probably made the difference today, Alaphilippe was mighty strong tho.

Nibali with a great attack, but still a disappointing performance psychically. Definitely not winning Liege.

Nibali probably just let go once he saw the break was doomed.

 

[DFA123]

Re:

No break is safe with the Mur at the end of the race. 30 seconds means nothing at the bottom of that climb. And its far steeper than it looks, walking up it a few years back was hard enough, let alone after 200km of riding.

Not sure about that. Schachmann wasn't too far from holding on with only about 10 seconds advantage. How hard the edition is raced is clearly a factor that has to be considered - because the peloton looked pretty cooked today. A strong puncheur would have won with a 30 second gap today I think.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

wait, wait, it turns out that the best puncheurs in the world know what they are doing when they wait for the Mur? But everyone here assured us that they are suicidal morons riding for Valverde?

QS never rode on the front of the peloton: UAE, Dimension Data and Lotto did.

Yes they did. They pushed a ferocious pace in the last 5km of the race - especially Jungels, shaving about 20 seconds off the advantage of the break. Even chasing down their own team-mate (who may have won otherwise!).

They clearly would have done that move at whatever point they deemed it necessary to get Alaphilippe into a winning position.

The break was already doomed by that point. They were riding on front to be in a good position once they hit the Mur. Basically QS rode a brilliant race. Kudos to them.

The point is that they would have started riding earlier if other teams hadn't picked up the chase. It's obvious from the way they chased down Schachmann, that they were all in for Alaphilippe today - and that the plan was to go mano a mano with Valverde on the Mur.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

Great edition of Fléche. The hard edition and the fact that Huy was climbed differently probably made the difference today, Alaphilippe was mighty strong tho.

Nibali with a great attack, but still a disappointing performance psychically. Definitely not winning Liege.

Nibali probably just let go once he saw the break was doomed.

Maybe, but thats irrelevant. A good Nibali wouldn't have pulled that weak ass attack on top of Cherave and looking this mediocre

 

[Breh]

Re: Re:

Great stuff by Julian. Very well deserved. Impressive stats in FW, 2nd, 2nd and 1st.

Glad to see the sealions are still there.

 

[jaylew]

Re: Re:

Turns out waiting for Valverde to launch his attack from his ideal distance was not smart. Who knew.

Indeed. Courtesy of Nibali & Co for smoking Valverde's team.

Alaphillipe was going to win today no matter what. He was simply stronger than Valverde.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

Great edition of Fléche. The hard edition and the fact that Huy was climbed differently probably made the difference today, Alaphilippe was mighty strong tho.

Nibali with a great attack, but still a disappointing performance psychically. Definitely not winning Liege.

Nibali probably just let go once he saw the break was doomed.

Nothing wrong with Nibali's ride. He and Haig seemed to be doing a lot of work in the break. Best edition for a long time.

 

[El Pistolero]

Re: Re:

wait, wait, it turns out that the best puncheurs in the world know what they are doing when they wait for the Mur? But everyone here assured us that they are suicidal morons riding for Valverde?

QS never rode on the front of the peloton: UAE, Dimension Data and Lotto did.

Yes they did. They pushed a ferocious pace in the last 5km of the race - especially Jungels, shaving about 20 seconds off the advantage of the break. Even chasing down their own team-mate (who may have won otherwise!).

They clearly would have done that move at whatever point they deemed it necessary to get Alaphilippe into a winning position.

The break was already doomed by that point. They were riding on front to be in a good position once they hit the Mur. Basically QS rode a brilliant race. Kudos to them.

The point is that they would have started riding earlier if other teams hadn't picked up the chase. It's obvious from the way they chased down Schachmann, that they were all in for Alaphilippe today - and that the plan was to go mano a mano with Valverde on the Mur.

They weren't. At that point in the race the pace wouldn't have gone down anymore, no matter what QS did. They were only riding on front to be in the best position once they hit the Mur.

Schachmann rode very strong however. Someone to look out for in the future.

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

When I saw Valverde sitting a little far back near the end of the steep bit you could tell he didn't have it to win. Usually he would have been right near the front without having to close a gap. Honestly, when I saw that, I thought he would finish around 5-7th and I was surprised to see him take 2nd. Alaphillipe was simply stronger today.

Yeah he seemed a bit too far back on the final steep ramp.

 

[hrotha]

Re: Re:

Turns out waiting for Valverde to launch his attack from his ideal distance was not smart. Who knew.

Indeed. Courtesy of Nibali & Co for smoking Valverde's team.

Alaphillipe was going to win today no matter what. He was simply stronger than Valverde.

A 75 m top effort after a slow approach is not the same as a 200, 300 or 400 m top effort after a harder approach, and the balance of strength isn't necessarily maintained unaltered over those different scenarios. I don't think this is a controversial statement.

 

[Leinster]

Re: Re:

No break is safe with the Mur at the end of the race. 30 seconds means nothing at the bottom of that climb. And its far steeper than it looks, walking up it a few years back was hard enough, let alone after 200km of riding.

Not sure about that. Schachmann wasn't too far from holding on with only about 10 seconds advantage. How hard the edition is raced is clearly a factor that has to be considered - because the peloton looked pretty cooked today. A strong puncheur would have won with a 30 second gap today I think.

Would a strong puncheur have been given a 30s advantage, though?

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Turns out waiting for Valverde to launch his attack from his ideal distance was not smart. Who knew.

Indeed. Courtesy of Nibali & Co for smoking Valverde's team.

Alaphillipe was going to win today no matter what. He was simply stronger than Valverde.

I think Alaphilippe changed his tactics a bit as well. He rode it like Valverde has ridden it in recent years - as a pretty steady effort, getting stronger if anything in the final 100m. Previously he was attacking with about 300m to go and fading big time. Although maybe the team dynamics with Martin forced him to waste himself last time he rode it.

 

[Gigs_98]

Re: Re:

wait, wait, it turns out that the best puncheurs in the world know what they are doing when they wait for the Mur? But everyone here assured us that they are suicidal morons riding for Valverde?

QS never rode on the front of the peloton: UAE, Dimension Data and Lotto did.

Yes they did. They pushed a ferocious pace in the last 5km of the race - especially Jungels, shaving about 20 seconds off the advantage of the break. Even chasing down their own team-mate (who may have won otherwise!).

They clearly would have done that move at whatever point they deemed it necessary to get Alaphilippe into a winning position.

What a load of rubbish. What Jungels did on the last kilometers was that he rode as fast as the other helpers besides him. The other option would have been to let Schachmann get caught anyway while Alaphilippe would have had to start the Mur in a horrible position. I don't think there was one moment when QS was the one team in front driving the peloton. Actually there was one moment when they were the one team in front, right at the beginning of the Mur. And at that point Jungels was slowing the peloton down.
And anyway, if QS had really only cared about Alaphilippe why on earth were they only starting to work so late?

 

[Cance > TheRest]

Meh, now I'm going to have to clip out Alaphilippe from the "Valverde wins on Huy - 6 splitscreens" compilation that I was planning to make.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

No break is safe with the Mur at the end of the race. 30 seconds means nothing at the bottom of that climb. And its far steeper than it looks, walking up it a few years back was hard enough, let alone after 200km of riding.

Not sure about that. Schachmann wasn't too far from holding on with only about 10 seconds advantage. How hard the edition is raced is clearly a factor that has to be considered - because the peloton looked pretty cooked today. A strong puncheur would have won with a 30 second gap today I think.

Would a strong puncheur have been given a 30s advantage, though?

Probably not - at least not unless there was a big mis-calculation from the peloton. But the point is more that the Mur isn't *that* hard. A 30 second advantage should be quite comfortably enough for a strong puncheur - especially if they have been in a break, rather than solo for the previous few kilometres.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

It’s hilarious. Some posters here are so emotionally attached to the argument that even the best puncheurs in the world are fools for thinking that they can beat Valverde on the Mur that they can’t let it go even in the immediate aftermath of one of the top puncheurs in the world beating Valverde after waiting for the Mur.

 

[DNP-Old]

Apart from his first few races in Colombia, Checho Henao has been awful this season.