2018 La Fleche Wallonne

[trucido]

Nice Julian! It's a been a long time coming.

 

[DFA123]

Re:

The point is that chasing to get most surely beaten is just plain stupid, and that is why you should get riders in a strong break and try your luck, before being already with your back to the wall...

They are not mutually exclusive options though. Pretty much every team tried to get into a break after the first ascent of the Huy, but many were reeled back by the peloton before one finally stuck. So there was an element of luck in getting in the right one.

Then, once you haven't got in the break and it has established a 30-40 second gap, it is absolutely the best strategy for anyone who has missed the break to chase it down. If the break succeeds there is zero chance of winning - and most probably no chance at even a top 5 finish. If the break is chased down then you may have options for a late attack, or at least have an outside chance of winning on the final climb. What would have been absolutely pathetic, is for all the other teams to just lean on Landa for 20km, until the break has a 1-2 minute gap and is impossible to catch. Kind of like what we have seen from the tactical masterminds in the cobbled races this season.

Also, some fans seem to find this hard to understand, but riders care about podium and top 10 placings. A lot.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

It’s hilarious. Some posters here are so emotionally attached to the argument that even the best puncheurs in the world are fools for thinking that they can beat Valverde on the Mur that they can’t let it go even in the immediate aftermath of one of the top puncheurs in the world beating Valverde after waiting for the Mur.

:lol: Indeed. The twisting of the facts to fit a pre-conceived narrative has plumbed new depths in this thread.

Meanwhile the most celebrated of the daring attackers - Nibali - ended up finishing behind Landa, over two minutes off the pace.

Nibali only cares for victory, but I don't expect you to understand that.

He should have kept his powder dry for the last climb, or a very late attack then. Everyone knows the break never stays away at Fleche.

 

[jaylew]

Re: Re:

I don't think saying Alaphillipe was stronger and was going to beat Valverde on the Mur today is a controversial statement.

My statement is self-evident, yours is informed speculation.

You're speculating every bit as much as I am. More, in my opinion.

 

[El Pistolero]

Re: Re:

It’s hilarious. Some posters here are so emotionally attached to the argument that even the best puncheurs in the world are fools for thinking that they can beat Valverde on the Mur that they can’t let it go even in the immediate aftermath of one of the top puncheurs in the world beating Valverde after waiting for the Mur.

:lol: Indeed. The twisting of the facts to fit a pre-conceived narrative has plumbed new depths in this thread.

Meanwhile the most celebrated of the daring attackers - Nibali - ended up finishing behind Landa, over two minutes off the pace.

Nibali only cares for victory, but I don't expect you to understand that.

He should have kept his powder dry for the last climb, or a very late attack then. Everyone knows the break never stays away at Fleche.

That's what they call a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Schachmann only finished 6 seconds down in the end. If Nibali wasn't in that break he would've probably won (the peloton kept a short leash on the breakaway group because they feared Nibali).

 

[hrotha]

Re: Re:

I don't think saying Alaphillipe was stronger and was going to beat Valverde on the Mur today is a controversial statement.

My statement is self-evident, yours is informed speculation.

You're speculating every bit as much as I am. More, in my opinion.

Please point out where I speculated?

 

[Rollthedice]

The shock is Valverde's time on Huy was the same as in four of his wins, including last year. Alaphilippe was just faster ( thanks climbing records, jens attacks)

 

[El Pistolero]

Re:

The shock is Valverde's time on Huy was the same as in four of his wins, including last year. Alaphilippe was just faster ( thanks climbing records, jens attacks)

I still think Valverde is the top favorite for LBL though. Hopefully they don't underestimate him now. QS needs to race aggressively.

 

[yaco]

I still worry about Movistar's unbalanced roster - It's crazy to have Landa heading the peleton on the flat - Where are the rouleurs ?

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

I still worry about Movistar's unbalanced roster - It's crazy to have Landa heading the peleton on the flat - Where are the rouleurs ?

Sorry, this is just so uninformed and kinda ignorant tbh. They just climbed Mur de Huy and several really strong riders were dropped including Martin, Kruijswijk, Ion Izagirre etc. Landa was the only one left since all the others were used up earlier and simply couldn't climb the Mur fast enough to pull the peloton at an respectable pace.

I mean, did you watch the race?

 

[El Pistolero]

Re: Re:

I still worry about Movistar's unbalanced roster - It's crazy to have Landa heading the peleton on the flat - Where are the rouleurs ?

Sorry, this is just so uninformed and kinda ignorant tbh. They just climbed Mur de Huy and several really strong riders were dropped including Martin, Kruijswijk, Ion Izagirre etc. Landa was the only one left since all the others were used up earlier and simply couldn't climb the Mur fast enough to pull the peloton at an respectable pace.

I mean, did you watch the race?

I wouldn't call them strong riders, not this season at least. Kruijswijk is a joke outside GTs.

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

It’s hilarious. Some posters here are so emotionally attached to the argument that even the best puncheurs in the world are fools for thinking that they can beat Valverde on the Mur that they can’t let it go even in the immediate aftermath of one of the top puncheurs in the world beating Valverde after waiting for the Mur.

QS never chased. That's all we wanted the other teams to do here: attack (which QS did) and not drag Valverde to the finish-line (which QS did).

Again, your point is invalid. QS did what I wanted them to do today, other teams did not (UAE, Dimension Data, Lotto, Sky).

No pleasing you -Teams are passive and you whinge - Teams attack and you whinge.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

I still worry about Movistar's unbalanced roster - It's crazy to have Landa heading the peleton on the flat - Where are the rouleurs ?

Sorry, this is just so uninformed and kinda ignorant tbh. They just climbed Mur de Huy and several really strong riders were dropped including Martin, Kruijswijk, Ion Izagirre etc. Landa was the only one left since all the others were used up earlier and simply couldn't climb the Mur fast enough to pull the peloton at an respectable pace.

I mean, did you watch the race?

I wouldn't call them strong riders, not this season at least. Kruijswijk is a joke outside GTs.

But you get the point, don't you? There were only 40 riders left in the peloton, you don't just bring big engines over that climb when you have controlled the race the whole day. Its just.. stupid to expect that, wouldn't you agree?

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

I still worry about Movistar's unbalanced roster - It's crazy to have Landa heading the peleton on the flat - Where are the rouleurs ?

Sorry, this is just so uninformed and kinda ignorant tbh. They just climbed Mur de Huy and several really strong riders were dropped including Martin, Kruijswijk, Ion Izagirre etc. Landa was the only one left since all the others were used up earlier and simply couldn't climb the Mur fast enough to pull the peloton at an respectable pace.

I mean, did you watch the race?

I have posted the same for the six last months once I learnt Movistar's roster for 2018 - The roster doesn't have enough rouleur types which will bite you in some races.

 

[El Pistolero]

Re: Re:

I still worry about Movistar's unbalanced roster - It's crazy to have Landa heading the peleton on the flat - Where are the rouleurs ?

Sorry, this is just so uninformed and kinda ignorant tbh. They just climbed Mur de Huy and several really strong riders were dropped including Martin, Kruijswijk, Ion Izagirre etc. Landa was the only one left since all the others were used up earlier and simply couldn't climb the Mur fast enough to pull the peloton at an respectable pace.

I mean, did you watch the race?

I wouldn't call them strong riders, not this season at least. Kruijswijk is a joke outside GTs.

But you get the point, don't you? There were only 40 riders left in the peloton, you don't just bring big engines over that climb when you have controlled the race the whole day. Its just.. stupid to expect that, wouldn't you agree?

Sure, Movistar wasn't bad, but they did kill them-self trying to reel back Nibali in. Schachmann was also a lot stronger than anyone expected, but that would have been impossible to factor in for other teams. His performance was really impressive imo, only finishing 6 seconds down after being in the break for that long.

Landa did very well today, he should try to anticipate in LBL imo. If someone like Nibs goes he should follow.

 

[hrotha]

There were "only 40 riders left in the peloton", Movistar only managed to have one domestique among those 40, and you think that doesn't show their lack of depth, which many people have commented on since before the season even started? Hmm.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Re:

Gaudu DNF, did he crash or something? Not exactly been his season yet.

No he was dropped in view. Then probably gave up.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

There were "only 40 riders left in the peloton", Movistar only managed to have one domestique among those 40, and you think that doesn't show their lack of depth, which many people have commented on since before the season even started? Hmm.

There's a difference between the fact that their roster isn't well balanced (which is obvious) and expecting to bring strong rouleur types over Huy after such a hard race when the team has controlled the race the whole day.

 

[jaylew]

Re: Re:

I don't think saying Alaphillipe was stronger and was going to beat Valverde on the Mur today is a controversial statement.

My statement is self-evident, yours is informed speculation.

You're speculating every bit as much as I am. More, in my opinion.

Please point out where I speculated?

I thought that you were speculating that Alaphillipe's win was due to the finale being raced slightly differently than the last few years. Did I get that wrong?

 

[DNP-Old]

Re: Re:

Gaudu DNF, did he crash or something? Not exactly been his season yet.

No he was dropped in view. Then probably gave up.

Thanks, I was only able to catch the last +/- 5k on my phone. He's been very, very underwhelming thus far in this season and I wonder what the reason behind it is.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Re: Re:

Gaudu DNF, did he crash or something? Not exactly been his season yet.

No he was dropped in view. Then probably gave up.

Thanks, I was only able to catch the last +/- 5k on my phone. He's been very, very underwhelming thus far in this season and I wonder what the reason behind it is.

I'm guessing training too hard. Often happens with young riders after breakthrough year. They want to make another step up. Train more and more, and become tired/bad without realizing it

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Mollema said this years edition was much harder than normal, but also on the final climb. He said the first 500m were ridden much faster than the last time he participated. Might be why Valverde didn't have anything left either

 

[Gigs_98]

Mollema said this years edition was much harder than normal, but also on the final climb. He said the first 500m were ridden much faster than the last time he participated. Might be why Valverde didn't have anything left either

I was just looking at previous results and this year was actually the first time since 2014 that the top ten did not finish within 10 seconds. And looking further back you can see that before 2014 the top 10 all within 10 seconds used to be the exception rather than the rule.
I still think that Valverde isn't as strong on this climb is it sometimes seems and that he only became so dominant in this race because riders stopped attacking right at the bottom. Seriously, look at todays race and compare it to previous year. Valverde did precisely what he did every year. Just riding his own pace and something like 200 meters from the finish accelerating and riding everyone off his wheel. His pace on the first kilometer of the mur was probably as high as in previous year is acceleration was as good as in previous years, but in previous year there wasn't anyone as far in front as Alaphilippe this year.
No doubt, this finish suits Valverde very well, probably better than anyone else, but in the last few years the competition made it too easy for him.

 

[DFA123]

Mollema said this years edition was much harder than normal, but also on the final climb. He said the first 500m were ridden much faster than the last time he participated. Might be why Valverde didn't have anything left either

I was just looking at previous results and this year was actually the first time since 2014 that the top ten did not finish within 10 seconds. And looking further back you can see that before 2014 the top 10 all within 10 seconds used to be the exception rather than the rule.
I still think that Valverde isn't as strong on this climb is it sometimes seems and that he only became so dominant in this race because riders stopped attacking right at the bottom. Seriously, look at todays race and compare it to previous year. Valverde did precisely what he did every year. Just riding his own pace and something like 200 meters from the finish accelerating and riding everyone off his wheel. His pace on the first kilometer of the mur was probably as high as in previous year is acceleration was as good as in previous years, but in previous year there wasn't anyone as far in front as Alaphilippe this year.
No doubt, this finish suits Valverde very well, probably better than anyone else, but in the last few years the competition made it too easy for him.

Nice aftertiming. If you don't think Valverde isn's as strong on this climb as it sometimes seems, why were you calling teams pathetic for chasing down the break?

 

[El Pistolero]

Re: Re:

What happened to Martin?

he' a donkey...always was...

Mark L

No, no, no. The donkey nickname is reserved for Froome.

As of this day I give Dan Martin the nickname of Yamcha.