2022 National Championships

[Samu Cuenca]

GB course is fairly flat so no climbers, and no TDF participants, but hopefully enough attacking riders to make it a good race;

Cavendish
Hayter
Turner
Tulett
Swift
Swift
Wright
Walls
Stewart
Doull

Askey and Leo Hayter are riding the U23 time trial, so sill presumably be allowed to enter as well?

Women;

Georgi
Henderson
Shackley
Smith
Nelson
Barnes

Isn't the RR a combined U23 and elite race?

 

[postmanhat]

Isn't the RR a combined U23 and elite race?

Yes. But there's no separate listing yet (that I can find) for the U-23 riders.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Structural problems mainly. General lack of resources and investments in cycling, no Italian WT teams, old school mentality in the u23 / Jr teams...
The way I see it, things have improved since Cassani was named the Italian NC, with a focus on different disciplines and young riders having a chance to compete abroad and in Italian professional races with the NT. But this process requires time and continuity.

There might be some clinic related issues as well, but I don't think we have enough info to make any clear assumption about it.

The loss of some of the lower level Italian pro stage races could also be an issue, with races like the Settimana Lombarda, Giro di Calabria and the Brixia Tour disappearing (plus the Giro di Padania, but nobody misses that). There was once enough on the stage racing domestic calendar for Przemysław Niemiec to reach age 31 without ever going above Continental Pro.

There's always been a lot of one-dayers on that calendar - hence Murilo Fischer's crazy 2005 - but there used to be a decent number of stage races too. Paradoxically I think the paucity of doping scandals has probably been a catalyst for that. The Coppa Italia used to be very keenly fought and the number of high profile riders coming off doping suspensions or aging out and riding in the domestic teams - di Luca, Sella, Riccò, Pellizotti, Scarponi, Simoni, Garzelli - meant these smaller races were keenly fought out. Look at the 2010 Italian pre-Giro season with the likes of Ceramica Flaminia, Androni Giocattoli, CarmioOro, Farnese Vini, Colnago-CSF and Acqua e Sapone all producing contenders to all of these races - they aren't being invited to the WT races of the time but they need Giro form for those who are invited, and they need Coppa Italia points for those that aren't, and so you got a lot of hard racing which helped develop stage racers, even if they might not have been fighting for the win, they were competing with or alongside these veteran stage racers at that Continental level.

 

[RedheadDane]

Yes. But there's no separate listing yet (that I can find) for the U-23 riders.

Can't you just check the ages? Or would a rider like Tullett not be allowed to ride for a U23 title because he's on a WT team?

 

[postmanhat]

Can't you just check the ages? Or would a rider like Tullett not be allowed to ride for a U23 title because he's on a WT team?

I was just going by an article on the British Cycling website, which only gave the 'star names' and some brief details, with no full listing for any races. I have no idea if WT riders aren't allowed to compete for the U-23 race? Was more interrested in if Askey was racing as he could have a chance in the elite, depending on how it's ridden.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

I was just going by an article on the British Cycling website, which only gave the 'star names' and some brief details, with no full listing for any races. I have no idea if WT riders aren't allowed to compete for the U-23 race? Was more interrested in if Askey was racing as he could have a chance in the elite, depending on how it's ridden.

I don't think there are any restrictions. Both Hayter and Askey rode the race last year, where Fred Wright won the silver medal in the elite and got the U23 jersey. Georgi also won both titles in the women's race.

 

[BR2]

Is there an overview of the main riders doing the national championships somewhere?

 

[RedheadDane]

Is there actually a limit to have many riders each team can enter for the ITT? I'm guessing it would take a bit of a while if every single French Ag2R rider rode, and quite a few of those probably wouldn't be anywhere near the funny results anyway.
At least I'm assuming their crazy long list was for the RR...

 

[janraaskalt]

Is there actually a limit to have many riders each team can enter for the ITT? I'm guessing it would take a bit of a while if every single French Ag2R rider rode, and quite a few of those probably wouldn't be anywhere near the funny results anyway.
At least I'm assuming their crazy long list was for the RR...

There's no limit. Uno-X limits their participation in Norway, though, to make the Nat Champs more fair/interesting.

 

[Mayomaniac]

The loss of some of the lower level Italian pro stage races could also be an issue, with races like the Settimana Lombarda, Giro di Calabria and the Brixia Tour disappearing (plus the Giro di Padania, but nobody misses that). There was once enough on the stage racing domestic calendar for Przemysław Niemiec to reach age 31 without ever going above Continental Pro.

There's always been a lot of one-dayers on that calendar - hence Murilo Fischer's crazy 2005 - but there used to be a decent number of stage races too. Paradoxically I think the paucity of doping scandals has probably been a catalyst for that. The Coppa Italia used to be very keenly fought and the number of high profile riders coming off doping suspensions or aging out and riding in the domestic teams - di Luca, Sella, Riccò, Pellizotti, Scarponi, Simoni, Garzelli - meant these smaller races were keenly fought out. Look at the 2010 Italian pre-Giro season with the likes of Ceramica Flaminia, Androni Giocattoli, CarmioOro, Farnese Vini, Colnago-CSF and Acqua e Sapone all producing contenders to all of these races - they aren't being invited to the WT races of the time but they need Giro form for those who are invited, and they need Coppa Italia points for those that aren't, and so you got a lot of hard racing which helped develop stage racers, even if they might not have been fighting for the win, they were competing with or alongside these veteran stage racers at that Continental level.

Great post and at the situation is the same in the u23, but mainly in the junior ranks and below. Lots of stage races have died out and if you're from the wrong region you won't get any chance to ride stage races and/or one day races that actually suit a proper climber. Tons of crit style races (who are not useless for lightweight climbers, as they learn to cope with higher speeds on the flat) and once day races that suit punchy guys with a decent sprint. Most of the so called "cronoscalate" that we have in the junior ranks are actually short tts with a bit of flat and a short tempogrinder at the end, the average speeds of the winners are usually above 30 km/h even in the junior ranks.

Nowadays guys like Pozzovio, Caruso, Nibali and Visconti would struggle even more to emerge because the economic crisis and various doping scandals have killed off lots of races for juniors and younger riders in Southern Italy.

 

[Mayomaniac]

There's no limit. Uno-X limits their participation in Norway, though, to make the Nat Champs more fair/interesting.

This kind of stuff used to be interesting in Austria, when pre-Bora you had very few WT riders and mostly on different teams, while the CT teams could field huge sized teams. So on a route that wasn't super hard the CT teams would usually try to play the numbers game to outplay the WT riders, while those would often from alliances with eachother to have a chance against the CT armadas.

 

[RedheadDane]

There's no limit. Uno-X limits their participation in Norway, though, to make the Nat Champs more fair/interesting.

I was just wondering, since I don't think I can recall an example of any teams entering 20ish riders for the ITT.

This kind of stuff used to be interesting in Austria, when pre-Bora you had very few WT riders and mostly on different teams, while the CT teams could field huge sized teams. So on a route that wasn't super hard the CT teams would usually try to play the numbers game to outplay the WT riders, while those would often from alliances with eachother to have a chance against the CT armadas.

How do you make an alliance in an ITT?

I know there's no limit for the RR, some team's entry list is basically like:

 

[Samu Cuenca]

How do you make an alliance in an ITT?

Ask Stefan Küng. Apparently he had made some kind of deal with Cavagna so he could destroy Ganna and Evenepoel at the EC

 

[RedheadDane]

Ask Stefan Küng. Apparently he had made some kind of deal with Cavagna so he could destroy Ganna and Evenepoel at the EC

So, now they're even making alliances across countries!

 

[Samu Cuenca]

So, now they're even making alliances across countries!

Sure.

If you have 20 riders in an ITT, then you could obviously have 19 of them ride very slowly and only speed up when their leader was approaching to create some legal drafting.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Tons of crit style races (who are not useless for lightweight climbers, as they learn to cope with higher speeds on the flat) and once day races that suit punchy guys with a decent sprint.

And all those crit style junior and espoir races in the Po Valley just lead to the time-honoured tradition of the Italian sprinter that can't get over a speedbump, like Ivan Quaranta, Danilo Napolitano, Angelo Furlan, Andrea Guardini, Matteo Pelucchi and Jakub Mareczko, who can look a million bucks crushing people in those pan flat races but often get found out quite quickly in the pro ranks, often only achieving a fraction of what their earlier results suggest they should.

 

[Mayomaniac]

And all those crit style junior and espoir races in the Po Valley just lead to the time-honoured tradition of the Italian sprinter that can't get over a speedbump, like Ivan Quaranta, Danilo Napolitano, Angelo Furlan, Andrea Guardini, Matteo Pelucchi and Jakub Mareczko, who can look a million bucks crushing people in those pan flat races but often get found out quite quickly in the pro ranks, often only achieving a fraction of what their earlier results suggest they should.

Yeah, never sign a pure sprinter who only rode for an Italian u23 team, because they only care about the number of wins, even if it was just some small fry crit around your local town square.
Guys like Dainese and Moschetti signed with other teams and became much better riders.

Someone like Consonni already showed that he was more than just a pure sprinter in the u23 ranks, when he finished 2nd in the Richmond u23 WC, but yet again, a track guy. The funny thing is that Quaranta is actually doing a good job as a track cycling coach at Colpack, where he's working with the national team to develop the track guys. Luca Colnaghi is another younger Italian guy who is fast, but can actually climb. Last year he finished 2nd in the Trofeo Piva, a race with over 3,000m of altitude gain behind Ayuso.

Overall the lack of stage races in the junoir ranks and below is a big problem, the Giro della Basilicata juniores hasn't been ridden since 2017, when Donovan won the race and on top of my head the Giro della Lunigana is the only real MJ stage race in Italy and that one is raced with regional teams, so you often get picked (or not) because of your results as a one day racer, not as a stage racer.

 

[lemon cheese cake]

GB course is fairly flat so no climbers, and no TDF participants, but hopefully enough attacking riders to make it a good race;

Cavendish
Hayter
Turner
Tulett
Swift
Swift
Wright
Walls
Stewart
Doull

Askey and Leo Hayter are riding the U23 time trial, so sill presumably be allowed to enter as well?

Women;

Georgi
Henderson
Shackley
Smith
Nelson
Barnes

The under 23 mens race is included within the elite race. Hayter and Askey are on the start list as are other u23 riders on good form currently, like Sean Flynn andf Sam Watson. Must say I do find it quite weird looking down the start list and seeing more riders riding for Groupama FDJ (5) than Ineos (4)!

 

[Samamba]

Is Ganna riding the Italian TT tmrw?

 

[SafeBet]

Is Ganna riding the Italian TT tmrw?

Unless there has been a sudden change of plans he should be riding.

 

[RedheadDane]

I have a bit of a weird question about people with double citizenship.
They're definitely allowed to race the championship of their "other" country; Benedetti rode the Italian after he became Polish, there's an Aussie-Danish guy who's been riding both (didn't do the Danish U23 race this year, though). So, what would prevent Haussler from starting the German race in order to help Bauhaus?
Obviously, it would have to be countries like that. Carr - he's got French citizenship as well, right? - couldn't do it.

 

[Earns1985]

Any information if Kämna will ride? Parcours should suit him.

Accoring to the startlist, Kämna will ride both TT and RR, also Schachmann. Buchmann will only ride the RR.

https://www.sauerlandrundfahrt.de/w...06/Meldungen-DM-1er-Strasse-Elite-Männer.pdf

https://www.sauerlandrundfahrt.de/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/Meldungen-DM-EZF-Elite-Männer.pdf

 

[janraaskalt]

I have a bit of a weird question about people with double citizenship.
They're definitely allowed to race the championship of their "other" country; Benedetti rode the Italian after he became Polish, there's an Aussie-Danish guy who's been riding both (didn't do the Danish U23 race this year, though). So, what would prevent Haussler from starting the German race in order to help Bauhaus?
Obviously, it would have to be countries like that. Carr - he's got French citizenship as well, right? - couldn't do it.

Isn't that a matter of where you have your license?

 

[King Of The Wolds]

Isn't that a matter of where you have your license?

I think so. In Carr's case, I know he considers himself more French than British, but he's down to ride in Scotland this weekend.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Unless there has been a sudden change of plans he should be riding.

Yes, Ganna, Sobrero, Affini and Cattaneo are all riding, a stacked field.