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Giro d'Italia 2023 Giro d'Italia, Stage 5: Atripalda - Salerno 171 km (Wednesday, May 10th)

Page 18 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Some people saying that Remco should not have been looking back. Yes you are right and that's his fault. However, he would have been taken down regardless because of the bad maneuver by the other rider. Very difficult to avoid even if he was looking forward. Think about the sprints as well. The riders that make drastic changes of their lines are at fault and usually take down the other riders regardless of anything. very hard to avoid.
 
Some people saying that Remco should not have been looking back. Yes you are right and that's his fault. However, he would have been taken down regardless because of the bas manuever by the other rider. Very difficult to avoid even if he was looking forward. Think about the sprints as well. The riders that change their path are at fault and usually take down the other riders regardless of anything. very hard to avoid.
Biased Remco lover.
 
Indeed. You can overlay both images if you want. They are scaled to size and pinned to match with the rider to Evenepoel's left as reference. Does it not fit your desired outcome?
The rider to Evenepoel's right seems to move ever so slightly to the right based on the actual video, so it's difficult to verify. In any case, even if we take both pictures to be equally central and therefore assume we can draw accurate conclusions, they suggest that Evenepoel drifts clearly more than the 0.5 metres you were claiming earlier (there is no space between him and the rider to his left in picture 1, and at least 1.5 rider widths in picture 2), and instead (just about) in the range of 1-2 metres that I said would have been the margin otherwise. Yes, Kirsch could have cut in less diagonally, but 19 times out of 20, what he does passes without incident, and the 20th time is when someone veers into his path without looking. And so, as I again said previously, it's almost entirely the fault of the rider veering, i.e. Evenepoel.

Okay, that post was actually far more attention than those images are worth :')
 
I am puzzled about it TBH.
Probably because the organization gathered evidence that they were behind when the crash inside the 3k happened. I remember that only a portion of the group that was affected by the earlier crash was able to connect to the front just 500 meters before the crash with Evenepoel, I remember seeing in that group Roglic and Almeida, not sure who were the other GC guys like Uran and Vine 🤷‍♂️
 
The rider to Evenepoel's right seems to move ever so slightly to the right based on the actual video, so it's difficult to verify. In any case, even if we take both pictures to be equally central and therefore assume we can draw accurate conclusions, they suggest that Evenepoel drifts clearly more than the 0.5 metres you were claiming earlier (there is no space between him and the rider to his left in picture 1, and at least 1.5 rider widths in picture 2), and instead (just about) in the range of 1-2 metres that I said would have been the margin otherwise. Yes, Kirsch could have cut in less diagonally, but 19 times out of 20, what he does passes without incident, and the 20th time is when someone veers into his path without looking. And so, as I again said previously, it's almost entirely the fault of the rider veering, i.e. Evenepoel.
Evenepoel is not as skinny as the line i drew. So you should look at the position of his bike/wheels. Even if it is more than half a meter, it is certainly not more than 1 meter, and not even close to half of the distance Kirsch travels sideways. Yet you label Evenepoel as the veering rider, while it is clear Kirsch travels more sideways and is more aggressive in cutting inside at a higher speed, but you don't label his move as "veering" so you can stay by your initial opinion that it is Evenepoel's fault. lol

Evenepoel moves to the right. Kirsch moves to the left, faster and further. Even if Evenepoel had not looked sideways right before, he would not have seen Kirsch coming. Kirsch on the other hand came from behind and had a better view of the situation. But it is 100% Evenepoel's fault and i am the one who is biased.
 
First of all, Evenepoel's swerve is not that severe untill the Trek rider clips him. He only moves to the side maybe half a meter. And as you noted, the Trek rider is coming from behind with more speed so he is the one with a better view as it happens in front of him. The Trek rider's cutting in swerve is also harder and faster. Evenepoel is not without blame, he should have been looking to the side he wanted to peel off to, but the blame does not fall solely on him, as people here are trying to portray it.
We will disagree, but the more i think about it the more i am reminded of the incident at the Vuelta last year. Some guy from some small team took position in front of Remco. Remco was pissed and just stared at him, even though he didn't do anything wrong.

Today, I kind of feel Remco again showed his frustration by looking/staring to his left at the rider/incident that annoyed him. Unprofessional because it was a stressful point in the race and he needs to be concentrating.

But as I said, we will let chris horner decide :p
 
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Nice win for Groves and Milan very good once again.

Regarding the crahses of Remco, Roglic and also Bernal in Hungary among others and taking into account that cycling is a risky sport that will always have riders crashing, I think that we absolutely need to some changes to ensure that these become less common. I know that some will probably say that is lack of bike handling or whatever but regardless of that when me and I suppose most viewers turn up the TV to watch Grand Tours they want the best riders to fight out for the win day after day and not having the GC decided by crashes and several of the contenders crashing out in the process (we already have things like illnesses that are impossible to control and that will always take out a few riders).

Races like the Giro, Tour or Vuelta will always remain very important races but if we start to have Grand Tours decided by crashes more often than not and becoming races in which only a few of the GC riders manage to finish the race then one-day races, like the World Championships, Olympics and the monuments will be the most interesting races to follow atleast for me (the cobbled monuments already are for me anyway) and they will continue to attract the best riders instead of the Giro or the Vuelta (it explains why someone like Pogacar only rode one GC per season so far).
 
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Evenepoel is not as skinny as the line i drew. So you should look at the position of his bike/wheels. Even if it is more than half a meter, it is certainly not more than 1 meter, and not even close to half of the distance Kirsch travels sideways. Yet you label Evenepoel as the veering rider, while it is clear Kirsch travels more sideways and is more aggressive in cutting inside at a higher speed, but you don't label his move as "veering" so you can stay by your initial opinion that it is Evenepoel's fault. lol

Evenepoel moves to the right. Kirsch moves to the left, faster and further. Even if Evenepoel had not looked sideways right before, he would not have seen Kirsch coming. Kirsch on the other hand came from behind and had a better view of the situation. But it is 100% Evenepoel's fault and i am the one who is biased.
There is at least one Evenepoel between the red line (i.e. his centre in picture 1) and his left side on picture 2, which comes to at least 1.5 Evenepoels of veering. And then I'd guesstimate anything between 0 and 40 centimetres of changed camera position/cropping, which is a big margin in a sprint.

Never said Kirsch didn't move more, but when he starts to move there's relatively speaking acres of space to do so, it's an entirely normal move in a sprint finale to boot, and only when Evenepoel veers blindly after Kirsch is well into the process of moving position does that space disappear. Hence why it's mostly on Evenepoel. Not particularly dangerous riding, just an error, but certainly no grounds to blame Kirsch.
 
We will disagree, but the more i think about it the more i am reminded of the incident at the Vuelta last year. Some guy from some small team took position in front of Remco. Remco was pissed and just stared at him, even though he didn't do anything wrong.

Today, I kind of feel Remco again showed his frustration by looking/staring to his left at the rider/incident that annoyed him. Unprofessional because it was a stressful point in the race and he needs to be concentrating.

But as I said, we will let chris horner decide :p
This is not what i am discussing. I didn't say anything about that. I already said he should have been looking to his right before moving instead of looking to his left. I am not saying he isn't to blame. The only thing i am saying is that he is not the only one to blame. For me personally, considering Kirsch makes the harder swerve, he is more at fault. But whether that is 45-55% or 60-40%, i don't care that much. The thing is that it is laughable how everybody claims to be completely impartial and neutral, while blaming him for 100% and debating (even disproving some claims with images) that, only gets you labelled as biased.
 
Anyone who understands logic would read everything. As i said, the Trek rider travels sideways harder and faster.


Here is how demonstrably false they are:

rev-trek-girozydo3.jpg
sorry but this does not exonerate Remco. The trek guy is accelerating ahead of Remco and there is lots of room had Remco held his line. Remco rides into his back wheel
 
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Was it Bouwman who casually decided to take a piss against a wall while waiting for a bike after giving it to Roglic?

Yep, that was him.

There are crashes and crashes. For Primoz, who fell on the largest ski flying hill in the world, hardly anything is considered a real crash. He's a tough son of a b**ch.

Today's 'crash' was not a real crash. The ultimate Rogla crash will forever be (& some people might have forgotten this one) the no risk, no glory Vuelta 2021 crash.

That was a legendary slide.
 
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No... because after he slipped he is looking back and swerving a few meters into the others. Dainese has no room.
View: https://youtube.com/shorts/eOe9UkKYLdk?feature=share



Cav looked over his shoulder to see if there was room to go back into his spot and there was. He was looking forward, slid back into position and Dainese started moved from the right all the way to the left and took out his front wheel. Dainese had plenty of room if he stayed where he was but he swerved out to try and get better placing.