Giro d'Italia 2023 Giro d'Italia: Who is going to win? Pre-race poll.

[Rob5091]

Remco to win on the flat, Roglic to win on the climbs. Team strength might well decide it in the end. UAE with Almeida, Vine and Ulissi could be interesting. Otherwise, I'm rooting for Pozzovivo - Go Domenico!

 

[Põhja Konn]

No issue whatsoever. The route favours Remco. It was designed with him in mind. Remco fanboys call it an excuse in the making in case he wins or something made up by haters. The usual.

Two flattish ITTs do favour Remco, but let's not pretend RCS has put up Tour 2012-esque course for this Giro. The super hard last week is something Remco's yet to deal with in a GT environment. He can lose far more than he gains in ITTs in that last week, if his climbing ability and/or recovery proves inadequate for a challenge like that. This is a completely different type of GT than last years Vuelta he won, filled with far more potential pitfalls for a rider who cannot yet fully know his own real limits as a GT rider.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Roglic is not going to lose time to remco in the first 2 TTs. Mark my words.

On two flat time trials? Somewhat delusional IMO.

 

[Andre]

I find it ridiculous when the haters say the route was designed for Remco. It's probably the other way around...Remco is designed for this particular route. It's always the same...La Vuelta, they said was designed for Remco as well...so too shall the next Tour? Remco for the victory.

 

[EddyMazzoleni]

No issue whatsoever. The route favours Remco. It was designed with him in mind. Remco fanboys call it an excuse in the making in case he wins or something made up by haters. The usual.

Lol you call other people fanboys, yet you support the literal ITT olympic champ and cry about the time trials in the Giro like a 12 month old who lost his pacifier.

 

[Riek s]

No issue whatsoever. The route favours Remco. It was designed with him in mind. Remco fanboys call it an excuse in the making in case he wins or something made up by haters. The usual.

So in 2019 the parcour was made tailored for Roglic. with 8km, 34.8km and 17km ?

And it seems that adding 11km to the first TT makes it completely written for Remco ?

now imagine a Giro made for Pantani... a pure climber... with 7km, 40km and 34km. (1998).

at least i bring up examples of actual Giro's with more TT km. (e.g. based on factual data) which adds more to the conversation than namecalling.

 

[frisenfruitig]

That's why a balanced cycling fan in general should stand up against GT routes designed for the (outstanding) features of one single rider. Roglic or other rider winning would do cycling in general and Remco a favor (and also to his fans).

In my opinion being a good GT rider includes being very good at TT's as well so in that respect this Giro was just designed for a complete GT rider and not a mountain goat. I'm not a fan of the current trend where the organizers pander to pure climbers. I'm pretty sure ASO did this purely because they figured it gave french riders like Pinot and Bardet a chance to win a GT.

This giro is hard enough to also make a difference in the mountain stages but if you lose minutes in a TT then perhaps you are not worthy of winning a GT.

 

[Elos Anjos]

The trend in last years is that mountain goats have more trouble becoming good TTers than good TTers becoming good in the mountains.

Roglic is not as good in flat TTs as Remco. Giro 2023 has an abnormal amount of kms.

I would say to Remco fans please grow up if you want to have a discussion but I'm not here to preach to little kids.

 

[Netserk]

Head doesn't know (care)
Heart says "Let the rider with the most annoying fans be defeated"

These pictures are the same.

 

[Netserk]

Who are "by default" the top GC riders now? Let's say top two levels

Level 1: Definitely Pog, Vingegaard and Remco. Roglic?
Level 2: Definitely Mas, Thomas and probably Hindley. Gaudu? And Roglic if not on level 1.

Bernal would very probably be at least level 2 if not for being very injury plagued. Can't see many others. Carapaz seem to be declining. Don't think neither Landa, Vlasov, Almeida, O'Connor or other are on this level.

When did Carapaz decline? *** has been one steady motherfucker.

Hilarious autocorrect. R-tard->genius. N-word->dear friend.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

The trend in last years is that mountain goats have more trouble becoming good TTers than good TTers becoming good in the mountains.

How is that a trend? Hasn‘t that always been the case?

 

[EddyMazzoleni]

The trend in last years is that mountain goats have more trouble becoming good TTers than good TTers becoming good in the mountains.

Roglic is not as good in flat TTs as Remco. Giro 2023 has an abnormal amount of kms.

I would say to Remco fans please grow up if you want to have a discussion but I'm not here to preach to little kids.

Sure, keep lying to yourself.
It's so hard for climbers to become good TTers that last year Vingegaard, who had never done a good TT prior to 2021, almost beat the whole TdF peloton in a 40km rolling TT.
Also 50km of flat TT is not an abnormal amount, it's reasonable at worst. Pantani, Delgado, Fuente, Bartali, heck even Sastre, won GTs with similar if not more kilometers against the clock.
The reason why todays climber cannot win GTs is that they are bad and scared to put their nose in the wind for more than 500 meters.
Rogla is an incredible rider and definitively has a shot at the Giro, and child like you crying at the route does not do him any justice.

 

[Riek s]

Average number of TT km in Giro between
2000 and 2010 = 78km
2011 and 2020 = 70km

2023: 73km --> abnormal amount of TT. its below a 21 year average

 

[Andy schleck]

On two flat time trials? Somewhat delusional IMO.

Like i said, 14 may we can talk again.
People here are underestimating the olympic TT champion, a guy that already beat remco in a TT at pays basque, and a guy that just lost 45 seconds to remco on last year's TT at the vuelta, when he wasn't in his best shape, after his crashes at the tour.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Can somebody explain to me in plain English on what the debate is about ATM. You seem to be arguing. But for the life of me i don't get about what.

 

[Berniece]

Can somebody explain to me in plain English on what the debate is about ATM. You seem to be arguing. But for the life of me i don't get about what.

People are saying the route is made specifically for riders who are good in TT because there are +70km's of TT in it.

Others are saying that such an amount of TT in a GT is actually normal, and a GT should be won by a complete rider, not pure climbers.

 

[Netserk]

Average number of TT km in Giro between
2000 and 2010 = 78km
2011 and 2020 = 70km

2023: 73km --> abnormal amount of TT. its below a 21 year average

Did you count TTTs?

 

[KZD]

Like i said, 14 may we can talk again.
People here are underestimating the olympic TT champion, a guy that already beat remco in a TT at pays basque, and a guy that just lost 45 seconds to remco on last year's TT at the vuelta, when he wasn't in his best shape, after his crashes at the tour.

The problem with using the Olympic TT and the last year's Basque country TT as an example is that none of those resembled the flat TTs on stages 1 and 9 of the Giro because they were both hilly and on those courses Roglič is one of the best in the world.

I think Roglič losing one second per km in the first two TTs would be quite good for him, better than in last year's Vuelta and he would still be within a minute of Remco.

For the overall, I give the same chances to Remco and to Roglič actually, though I voted Remco.

 

[johnymax]

Like i said, 14 may we can talk again.
People here are underestimating the olympic TT champion, a guy that already beat remco in a TT at pays basque, and a guy that just lost 45 seconds to remco on last year's TT at the vuelta, when he wasn't in his best shape, after his crashes at the tour.

Roglič is an amazing TT rider, but excels in hilly terrain the most. He is probably the best hilly TT rider in the world of the last 5 years. But in flat ITTs he is behind the likes of Ganna, Van Aert, Remco, Kung... He can defend well himself, but usually loses to them on a flat course.

That's why if everything goes according to plan, it will be very dificult for him not to lose time to Remco in the first two ITTs. How much time, who knows? It's true that the first TT finish with a 1,2km climb at 5% that will help Rogla, but it certainly won't penalise Remco imo. So I'm expecting anywhere from 30s to 1min 30s gap between the two in both the ITTs altogether in Remco's favor.

 

[Eshnar]

Great to read you guys but where is @Eshnar 's preview?

coming soon™

 

[Riek s]

Did you count TTTs?

Yes, the list i parsed didn't contain the difference between prologue/ITT or TTT, it was just listed as TT.

 

[topcat]

coming soon™

Remco will get a lead in the tts, Roglic will attack in the mountains and look like he's going to turn it around, Roglic will have a mishap, Remco will burn out and Caruso will win.
(Eshnar is overworked.)

 

[Extinction]

People are saying the route is made specifically for riders who are good in TT because there are +70km's of TT in it.

Others are saying that such an amount of TT in a GT is actually normal, and a GT should be won by a complete rider, not pure climbers.

This should not even be an issue, as the last TT is up a mountain and there are so many mountains to scale in the last week that, once again, the Giro is a climber-friendly race. RCS sport wasn't only thinking of Evenepoel with the other two TTs, but Ganna, while they were also hoping to attract Pogacar, but that obviously didn't work.

 

[Elos Anjos]

Keep ignoring the elephant in the room. Even if journalists have already addressed the issue.

 

[EddyMazzoleni]

Deleted by mod

I'm sorry, but you seem to have some trouble understanding what i wrote.
I used Vingegaard as an example of a rider who improved is time trialing ability drastically in a relatively short amount of time. I never said that he could do so because of is willingness to "put is nose in the wind".
I, however, said that in the past many riders were able to win GTs even if they lost time in the TTs, thanks to their ability to attack and gain back said time in the mountains, while todays climber are unable of winning GTs because they are unwilling to take the risks necessary perform such feats, rather than due to the excessive amount of TTs miles.
I find it also quite funny that you name a number of climbers that are bad TTers and state that no matter what they do, they will never be able to improve their TT ability, when, in fact, some of them have won professional TTs in the past, showing that, in the right context, even pure climbers can perform decently against the clock.
And, while i agree with you that route desing plays a significant part in the GT choice of riders, and that routes may be designed to attract some riders, this is no 2012 Tour de France, and if Remco was not at the start, people could apply the same exact logic you are applying to the belgian to Primoz himself, since he is also a big star (maybe not at the level of Pogacar or Evenepoel but still much more recognizable than Vlasov and Almeida) and a really good TTer.