2023 World Championships team selections

[ManicJack]

At some point, it would be fun to see an absolutely peak Vingegaard in Liege. I think he does have an outside chance if Pogacar is slightly weaker than now and crashes out.

No words other than LAME.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Hows it lame? Pogacar needs to not be at 100% or crash out like this year for him to win the race. Thats my analysis, and I think thats pretty sound given what we know about these two riders in one day races.

 

[tobydawq]

At some point, it would be fun to see an absolutely peak Vingegaard in Liege. I think he does have an outside chance if Pogacar is slightly weaker than now and crashes out, and the same thing about Remco. But right now its hard to justify from his perspective going full throttle into the Ardennes - I do think it means a lot basically finishing your early season in Pais Vasco and focus 100% on TdF from there. You can get a big block of rest, go to a vulcano, work on your TT, recon TdF etc etc. It gets a lot more packed if you finish late April. I don't think we should ignore the mental aspect of it either.

I'd keep this schedule and add the Vuelta. Try to win either Paris-Nice or T-A. Maybe throw in Catalunya at some point as well. Try winning Tour de Suisse at some point.

Does Pogacar really need to both be weaker than now AND crash out?

 

[Netserk]

Does Pogacar really need to both be weaker than now AND crash out?

I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

 

[Peter von]

Hows it lame? Pogacar needs to not be at 100% or crash out like this year for him to win the race. Thats my analysis, and I think thats pretty sound given what we know about these two riders in one day races.

Once there are multiple monsters, tactics comes into it, not always Jumbo’s strong suit, but broken clocks and twice a day.

Liege could be the great battleground between Jonas, Remco, Pogi and Roglic.

 

[Red Rick]

Not participating in cycling during the season to then descend from a volcano once a year and destroy everything... Hmm, I wonder why people don't like that.

And by the way, that's a perfectly good mantra.

Literally destroying races since February

 

[Valv.Piti]

Does Pogacar really need to both be weaker than now AND crash out?

Aight, I phrased that pretty poorly. Obviously one of the two.

Peter von: Sure, I see that. But until I see Vingegaard actually being able to follow Remco and Pogacar on La Redoute or Roche Aux Faucon, or follow Pogacar in Lombardia, this is how I feel.

 

[Riek s]

Once there are multiple monsters, tactics comes into it, not always Jumbo’s strong suit, but broken clocks and twice a day.

Liege could be the great battleground between Jonas, Remco, Pogi and Roglic.

I wouldn't count on Jonas or Roglic for Liege. (Roglic prefers stage races, and Jonas hasn't proven one yota in a hilly classic and he has ridden a few which suite him more than Liege).

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Regarding the WC ITT, i think its of the same measure. Pog is also almost unbeatable in the tour TT, but he has never been close to even a podium in the worlds.
Last year should have suited Pogacar and he was 6th (40 seconds away from podium). So i think for Vingegaard the same will be true, they need to rely on fatigue or a very tailor made parcour to go for podium.

For the RR, Pog is more versatile than Vingegaard, so I understand him not being a pick for the win. ( but given his engine, he can work for some other Denmarkians who are capable of going for the win. I think helping his country can be done without needing to win it.).

 

[RedheadDane]

(Lame attempt at getting this thread back on track)

Here are some more riders eligible for the U23 Women Sub-Category.

New Zealand:
Ella Wyllie (though, I'm pretty sure they'll only bring one.)
Kim Cadzow
Ally Wollaston

Czech Republic:
Eliska Kvasnikoá
Krystýna Burlová

 

[Peter von]

Peter von: Sure, I see that. But until I see Vingegaard actually being able to follow Remco and Pogacar on La Redoute or Roche Aux Faucon, or follow Pogacar in Lombardia, this is how I feel.

And that’s quite logical to see it that way.

And even if he follows Pogi he still looses a sprint.

We’ll never know until he tries and neither will he. i hope he gives it a go, but yeah it’s his choice.

 

[jaylew]

I wouldn't count on Jonas or Roglic for Liege. (Roglic prefers stage races, and Jonas hasn't proven one yota in a hilly classic and he has ridden a few which suite him more than Liege).

I don't understand why Roglic doesn't race more one days. He could win another Liège or a Lombardia, I'm sure.

 

[ManicJack]

Hows it lame? Pogacar needs to not be at 100% or crash out like this year for him to win the race. Thats my analysis, and I think thats pretty sound given what we know about these two riders in one day races.

Talking about riders crashing when it hasn't happened IS lame. Couldn't you have simply said "doesn't finish"?

 

[Riek s]

And that’s quite logical to see it that way.

And even if he follows Pogi he still looses a sprint.

We’ll never know until he tries and neither will he. i hope he gives it a go, but yeah it’s his choice.

he tried 3 times and his best place was 28th

I don't understand why Roglic doesn't race more one days. He could win another Liège or a Lombardia, I'm sure.

Results in monument classics for Primož Roglič

Primož RogliÄ results in Paris-Roubaix, Tour of Flanders, Milan-SanRemo, Liege-Bastogne-Liege and Il Lombardia. His best result is 1st in Liège-Bastogne-Liège 2020.

www.procyclingstats.com

He could, but beside the win in Liege, he hasn't been that successful. I think he has a bigger win rate with stage races and those suite him a bit better it seems.

 

[Aimar16]

Some guys have very short memories. Last year at the TdF, Vingegaard would have won the long flatish ITT easily if he hadn't gifted the stage to Wout. He wrecked everyone on the flat section. But the guy is never going to race at that level the other part of the year, so it's completely pointless to talk about the WC or monument in his case. He'd show up in a mickey mouse race in February, Pog would destroy him in March, come out in god mode in the summer and that was his year. The reason his racing calendar is like this is of course subject for another sub-forum category

 

[QueenStagiaire]

PCS say the Colombian lineup is official and Superman Lopez is in it.

 

[Monte Serra]

PCS say the Colombian lineup is official and Superman Lopez is in it.

Excellent news! Hope they can include some 2000+ meter climbs in the parcours.

 

[tobydawq]

Literally destroying races since February

Yes, yes, I got carried away there, I apologise.

I still don't like his refusal to ride for the national team and his opinion that he will never go for the Giro and Vuelta because he just wants to win the Tour every year. I mean, I guess I get it but yeah, it just doesn't excite me.

 

[The Clogger]

Some guys have very short memories. Last year at the TdF, Vingegaard would have won the long flatish ITT easily if he hadn't gifted the stage to Wout. He wrecked everyone on the flat section. But the guy is never going to race at that level the other part of the year, so it's completely pointless to talk about the WC or monument in his case. He'd show up in a mickey mouse race in February, Pog would destroy him in March, come out in god mode in the summer and that was his year. The reason his racing calendar is like this is of course subject for another sub-forum category

Vingo did pretty well in the Basque Country in april. I remember a few classics taking place in april ...

Or Jumbo could plan Vingo's season like UAE plans Pogi's, but that's for another sub forum as well

 

[Peter von]

I wouldn't count on Jonas or Roglic for Liege. (Roglic prefers stage races, and Jonas hasn't proven one yota in a hilly classic and he has ridden a few which suite him more than Liege).

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www.procyclingstats.com

Regarding the WC ITT, i think its of the same measure. Pog is also almost unbeatable in the tour TT, but he has never been close to even a podium in the worlds.
Last year should have suited Pogacar and he was 6th (40 seconds away from podium). So i think for Vingegaard the same will be true, they need to rely on fatigue or a very tailor made parcour to go for podium.

For the RR, Pog is more versatile than Vingegaard, so I understand him not being a pick for the win. ( but given his engine, he can work for some other Denmarkians who are capable of going for the win. I think helping his country can be done without needing to win it.).

everything you point out is correct and reasonable.
I am just daydreaming of the fun they could have if all the monsters showed up in the same movie, I mean bike race And this year in Basque Country Vingo gave some hope that he is strong around that time and he showed desire to pad his non-Tour Palmares. But if he keeps racing stage races its perfectly understandable since this is what he is good at and he has a much higher chance of winning.
Jumbo keeps sending him to Lombardia as well, I think if it was just for the UCI points, they could send Benoot for the same results, plus keep a domestique happy by giving him captaincy in a big race. But it might as well be that after Tour and the post-tour rest period, Lombardia is the only thing left for Vingo to do and the sponsors want to see him.

He can still have some fun battles with Pogi and Remco in one-week races, but damn it I have work on weekdays!

 

[Aimar16]

Vingo did pretty well in the Basque Country in april. I remember a few classics taking place in april ...

Or Jumbo could plan Vingo's season like UAE plans Pogi's, but that's for another sub forum as well

I have no idea what you are talking about. Of course there are some classics taking place in April, the Basque race is a preparation for either the Ardennes classics or the Giro. Those who finished behind Vingegaard in the Basque race all went to the Ardennes: Landa, Izagirre, Gaudu, Mas, Higuita, Skjelmose..

Vingegaard's season and race calendar is not logical and not normal, which no one uses or very little, and not Pogacar's.

 

[RedheadDane]

I have no idea what you are talking about. Of course there are some classics taking place in April, the Basque race is a preparation for either the Ardennes classics or the Giro.

"A few" basically means "some".

 

[theyoungest]

Some guys have very short memories. Last year at the TdF, Vingegaard would have won the long flatish ITT easily if he hadn't gifted the stage to Wout. He wrecked everyone on the flat section. But the guy is never going to race at that level the other part of the year, so it's completely pointless to talk about the WC or monument in his case. He'd show up in a mickey mouse race in February, Pog would destroy him in March, come out in god mode in the summer and that was his year. The reason his racing calendar is like this is of course subject for another sub-forum category

So much nonsense in this post. Yes, he almost won the long TT in the Tour last year, but that was at the end of a three week stage race. If it's just one day he's not a favourite against guys with more absolute power. In a stage race he hasn't suffered as much as the heavy guys so he gets comparatively better in a flattish TT. Recovery is his main weapon, in a one day TT that weapon doesn't help him.

As for the racing calendar being clinic-related: it is, in a way, if you consider an altitude camp a clinic issue. The theory is that multiple altitude camps (Vingegaard) are better than one (Pogacar). But he still does race quite a lot for a July merchant... and he wins a lot. I don't know if you've seen him in this little preparation race, Pais Vasco, but he was as dominant there as he is now in the Tour. Probably more dominant because Pogacar wasn't there.

 

[Aimar16]

So much nonsense in this post. Yes, he almost won the long TT in the Tour last year, but that was at the end of a three week stage race. If it's just one day he's not a favourite against guys with more absolute power. In a stage race he hasn't suffered as much as the heavy guys so he gets comparatively better in a flattish TT. Recovery is his main weapon, in a one day TT that weapon doesn't help him.

So you're saying that Vingegaard saves more energy by destroying everyone on Hautacam than Ganna does by resting in the gruppetto? Or was he only fast on the flat this year because he was busy breaking EPO era climb records the previous two weeks? Don't be ridiculous the guy would be at least a top 3 contender on any ITT. But he only shows this type of form in 3 weeks a year.

As for the racing calendar being clinic-related: it is, in a way, if you consider an altitude camp a clinic issue. The theory is that multiple altitude camps (Vingegaard) are better than one (Pogacar). But he still does race quite a lot for a July merchant... and he wins a lot. I don't know if you've seen him in this little preparation race, Pais Vasco, but he was as dominant there as he is now in the Tour. Probably more dominant because Pogacar wasn't there.

As I wrote in my other comment, yes, the Basque race is a prep race. Preparation for the Ardennes classics or the Giro. But what was the guy preparing for there? Because he doesn't race for two months afterwards. It's like running the best time in the heats, but not going to the race. It's weird, isn't it?

 

[RedheadDane]

As I wrote in my other comment, yes, the Basque race is a prep race. Preparation for the Ardennes classics or the Giro. But what was the guy preparing for there?

He wasn't preparing for anything! Tour of the Basque Country is a big race in its own right.

 

[theyoungest]

So you're saying that Vingegaard saves more energy by destroying everyone on Hautacam than Ganna does by resting in the gruppetto? Or was he only fast on the flat this year because he was busy breaking EPO era climb records the previous two weeks? Don't be ridiculous the guy would be at least a top 3 contender on any ITT. But he only shows this type of form in 3 weeks a year.



As I wrote in my other comment, yes, the Basque race is a prep race. Preparation for the Ardennes classics or the Giro. But what was the guy preparing for there? Because he doesn't race for two months afterwards. It's like running the best time in the heats, but not going to the race. It's weird, isn't it?

Yes, well, if you disregard any other race where he showed this type of dominance, he indeed only shows this form in July. You're clutching at straws here.

Oh, and Pais Vasco wasn't a prep race for famed Ardennes contenders Mikel Landa, Ion Izagirre (two Basques!), David Gaudu, Enric Mas, Felix Gall, Simon Yates (the latter two weren't even in the Ardennes), ... you're living in the past, these days Pais Vasco is far from a prep race. For Andy Schleck it was, yes.