2023 World Championships team selections

[Peter von]

Totally agree. He wouldn't have a chance on this years route. Almost flat and at 48 km. will favour bigger engines. Of course he is saying no way, wait for a better oppertunity and leave the space for a rider who might have a chance.
His focus is and have always been the Tour and (almost) nothing else.

Agreed. I also think mentally for Vingegaard to go into the Tour knowing the worlds is coming up. It would do his head in. The tt yesterday makes it look easy but it requires 100% focus to win a tour no matter what. If Jonas for an instance thinks he need to adjust his efforts in the Tour because he needs to make a mark in Glasgow, then Pogi beats him in France.

This short a turnaround and Jonas is not a one day racer, though he probably will start having a look at Liege in the near future I reckon.

If he Finish 20th on the itt, he would get *** for stealing Asgren or Bjerg’s spot. Doing the road race as a glorified bottle carrier he would also get questions about what he is even doing there because Honore could have done that job better.

I firmly believe that this year in this route on this calendar date. The Danish NT is better off without Vingegaard there. Except if you look at the sponsorship deals and press handling and that sort of thing.

There is a risk that Vingegaard is just empty after Paris. Last year he finished second in Cro Race and 16th in Lombardia, not exactly anything to suggest he is flying post-TdF.

Asgren and Bjerg are better at rested flat TT’s and if Vingegaard isn’t flying he won’t be of much use in the road race either.

 

[Martinstranger]

Yeah, sure. How would the guy that just destroyed everyone until T2, ridden at ~50km/h speed:

Preliminary results at T2

1	VINGEGAARD Jonas	19.05	50.620
2	POGAČAR Tadej	19.36	49.286
3	CAVAGNA Rémi	19.56	48.462
4	KÜNG Stefan	19.58	48.381
5	PEDERSEN Mads	20.09	47.940
6	VAN AERT Wout	20.16	47.664
7	ASGREEN Kasper	20.21	47.469
8	CASTROVIEJO Jonathan	20.21	47.469
9	YATES Adam	20.23	47.392
10	YATES Simon	20.25	47.314

Ever have a chance on a course expected to be ridden at slightly above 50km/h speed?

nk	Rider	Team	UCI	Pnt		Time	Avg
1	CAMPENAERTS Victor	Belgium	70	20		0:53:38	51.125
2	CASTROVIEJO Jonathan	Spain	55	14		0:01	51.109
3	SCHACHMANN Maximilian	Germany	40	8		0:28	50.684
4	LAMPAERT Yves	Belgium	30	7		0:31	50.637
5	DOWSETT Alex	Great Britain	25	6		0:35	50.575
6	MULLEN Ryan	Ireland	20	5		0:41	50.482
7	KÜNG Stefan	Switzerland	15	4		0:45	50.420
8	VAN EMDEN Jos	Netherlands	10			0:55	50.266
9	QUAADE Rasmus	Denmark	5			0:56	50.250
10	VAN BAARLE Dylan	Netherlands	3			1:04	50.128

The T2 results above are for 16 km's and the worlds are x3 in lenght. On the other hand - have we ever seen him do a ITT with that lenght?

Sorry to spoil the fun, but I would not expect him to have a chance to finish in top 3 and then why would he go.

 

[ppanther92]

The T2 results above are for 16 km's and the worlds are x3 in lenght. On the other hand - have we ever seen him do a ITT with that lenght?

Sorry to spoil the fun, but I would not expect him to have a chance to finish in top 3 and then why would he go.

In the mountains endurance is his pro argument, excelling in long/hard stages and in the ITT it would be his weak point? I don't see that.

Length-wise last years final TdF ITT was similar (40.7km). There he did well, rather giving the impression the win was gifted to WvA tbh.

The only point I see is why he wouldn't do excellent at the Worlds ITT is that racing for a GC is maybe not optimal prep (and Ganna and Evenepoel will be rested).

 

[RedheadDane]

At the end of the day, it's an irrelevant conversation.
He doesn't want to ride, and luckily UCI hasn't implemented some BS rule that all riders have to want to ride the World Championship.

 

[Martinstranger]

The only point I see is why he wouldn't do excellent at the Worlds ITT is that racing for a GC is maybe not optimal prep (and Ganna and Evenepoel will be rested).

Thats exactly the point i expect would do the difference.

I presume Jumbo Visma/Jonas is full aware of his capabilities vs. example wva and do not want to excell in this discipline unless he can go for the win. All year he is preparing for the Tour and almost nothing else - I do not expect that to change.

 

[tobydawq]

At the end of the day, it's an irrelevant conversation.
He doesn't want to ride, and luckily UCI hasn't implemented some BS rule that all riders have to want to ride the World Championship.

Why is it so important to defend him and his choices of races all the time?

They absolutely suck and a little more flavour to his racing programme probably would do wonders for his popularity. Whether or not he wants to.

 

[RedheadDane]

Why is it so important to defend him and his choices of races all the time?

They absolutely suck and a little more flavour to his racing programme probably would do wonders for his popularity. Whether or not he wants to.

He's doing quite well in the races he do. Some people are too stuck on the old "The top riders should do every races!" mantra.

 

[tobydawq]

He's doing quite well in the races he do. Some people are too stuck on the old "The top riders should do every races!" mantra.

Not participating in cycling during the season to then descend from a volcano once a year and destroy everything... Hmm, I wonder why people don't like that.

And by the way, that's a perfectly good mantra.

 

[RedheadDane]

Not participating in cycling during the season to then descend from a volcano once a year and destroy everything... Hmm, I wonder why people don't like that.

And by the way, that's a perfectly good mantra.

The aim is to win! Not ride as many races as possible.

It's an old-fashioned way of thinking.

 

[tobydawq]

The aim is to win! Not ride as many races as possible.

It's an old-fashioned way of thinking.

But he can win so many races. He decides not to. Because God knows why.

If Pogacar didn't exist, he probably would do more races, because there's no reason to be able to beat your opposition by 10 minutes in the Tour.

I have heard him say, though, that he would be able to feature in the Ardennes Classics if he is at the top of his game. Which is pretty obvious. So, hopefully he will do them at least next year.

And don't even get me started on him not riding the Tokyo Olympics...

 

[SafeBet]

The aim is to win! Not ride as many races as possible.

It's an old-fashioned way of thinking.

Why is it old fashioned?
It's more common for top riders to diversify their calendar now than 30 years ago.

 

[RedheadDane]

Why is it old fashioned?
It's more common for top riders to diversify their calendar now than 30 years ago.

People always use the excuse of "Oh, back in the days of Merckx, they used to do all races, even the onces that were held at the same time!"

At the end of the day, I just think every rider should get to decide how many races they want to do.
Focus on a few races? Cool.
Ride every race possible? Cool.

 

[Trofonios]

I believe Vinge could do a good flat tt, reaching top 8, but winning? I doubt it. He hasn't shown he is Remco on the flat. Would say he is probably more in the league of prime Froome and Contador on a flat tt.

Vinge actually didn't take much time on the flat part yesterday, from 1st to 2nd timecheck he took most of the time on the downhill. You can go back and check, a couple of kilometers before the 2nd timecheck they showed that Vinge was 30s ahead of Pog like he was at the timecheck. Vinge however said that he took it a little bit "easier" on the flat part before the climb, but maybe Pog did that also. Pog lost time on the climbs, in the technical corners and on the downhill.

Vinge didn't take much time on Cavagna either from 1st to 2nd. Curious thing was that both Küng and van Aert lost quite a bit of time between 1st and 2nd timecheck, but they didn't just lose to Vinge but Cavagna also.

 

[Peter von]

I believe Vinge could do a good flat tt, reaching top 8, but winning? I doubt it. He hasn't shown he is Remco on the flat. Would say he is probably more in the league of prime Froome and Contador on a flat tt.

Vinge actually didn't take much time on the flat part yesterday, from 1st to 2nd timecheck he took most of the time on the downhill. You can go back and check, a couple of kilometers before the 2nd timecheck they showed that Vinge was 30s ahead of Pog like he was at the timecheck. Vinge however said that he took it a little bit "easier" on the flat part before the climb, but maybe Pog did that also. Pog lost time on the climbs, in the technical corners and on the downhill.

Vinge didn't take much time on Cavagna either from 1st to 2nd. Curious thing was that both Küng and van Aert lost quite a bit of time between 1st and 2nd timecheck, but they didn't just lose to Vinge but Cavagna also.

I think you are correct here. a flat-ish ITT in 3rd week of the Tour, maybe he could win, maybe. But at a championship where the heavier specialists haven't dragged their extra kgs over several big climbs over the past weeks, I doubt it. Better chance of Asgren just having the best day of his life, also because he can be more focussed througout the year for that, whereas JOnas has to spend his reckon energy on the Tour.

Yesterday, the heavier guys also needed to save more on the flats than Jonas did because they needed more watts to carry their extra weight up the climb. I imagine that if the TT didn't have the climb in the end it would be different.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Would you not send Mezgec, Govekar, Primozic and the likes? Austria 2020 had Schöneberger, Wildauer, Gall, Zoidl, Friedrich, Bayer. Judging by Procyclingstats points for 2020 that was also leaving out their best 8 riders (Konrad, Großschartner, Pernsteiner, Mühlberger, Haller, Brändle, Gogl, Pöstlberger). But I guess you at least try to line up a team.

Likely some other cyclists will get selected yes. For participating. But the truth is ever since the Olympics things are in my opinion only getting worse. That is top riders more and more not participating and i guess everything geared towards Pogi to win the medals. The only problem being there are no medals.

So i fear a bit in regards to 2023/2024 Worlds/Olympics opportunities. If there wont be any medals then objectively Slovenian dream team was poorly managed. And that in the end is a real shame. It's now or never. Hence i hope they get their act together and realize that. People making the selection and people appointing that people. We'll see.

 

[Netserk]

Why is it so important to defend him and his choices of races all the time?

They absolutely suck and a little more flavour to his racing programme probably would do wonders for his popularity. Whether or not he wants to.

What is wrong with his program this year? He has delivered more before the Tour than Contador ever managed.

 

[RedheadDane]

Just imagine the outrage if he hadn't made that announcement, and then hadn't been selected.

And now for something slightly different, but still World Championship related:

 

[Devil's Elbow]

What is wrong with his program this year? He has delivered more before the Tour than Contador ever managed.

Vingegaard is also a significantly better and more dominant rider than Contador ever was, so that’s not exactly a high bar to clear for him…

 

[tobydawq]

What is wrong with his program this year? He has delivered more before the Tour than Contador ever managed.

Okay, fair enough. It's probably hos refusal to ride for the national team that makes me generalise.

 

[Aimar16]

What is wrong with his program this year? He has delivered more before the Tour than Contador ever managed.

This is quite deceptive. Contador's programme was quite similar to Vingegaard's this season

Contador in 2007, 2009 and 2010
https://www.procyclingstats.com/rider/alberto-contador/2007
https://www.procyclingstats.com/rider/alberto-contador/2009
https://www.procyclingstats.com/rider/alberto-contador/2010

Vingegaard in 2023
https://www.procyclingstats.com/rider/jonas-vingegaard-rasmussen

 

[Peter von]

I think we must also remember that before this season Jonas didn’t have that many wins. Stages and overall on the Tour, but not much more than that; compared to how strong a rider he is.

I think they did the right thing in letting him lead in stage races which is what he is good at and rack up some wins.

 

[Kaptain Kool]

Not everyone has the courage to compete for victories in the biggest one-day races. No shame in that. Ultimately, we're all cowards in the end.

 

[ManicJack]

Not everyone has the courage to compete for victories in the biggest one-day races. No shame in that. Ultimately, we're all cowards in the end.

You forgot to use the word honor

 

[theyoungest]

Why is it so important to defend him and his choices of races all the time?

They absolutely suck and a little more flavour to his racing programme probably would do wonders for his popularity. Whether or not he wants to.

Wow, overreacting much? Maybe take a look at the races he has actually done in the last few years. You'd be surprised.

He's just not very good at one day races, maybe that's why you haven't noticed he was even there. But that's also the reason why some (mainly Danish) posters need to chill out when they demand he participate at the Worlds. He won't add much to your team. He's not going to win, and he's too tiny to keep anyone in position or carry bottles or whatever.

 

[Valv.Piti]

At some point, it would be fun to see an absolutely peak Vingegaard in Liege. I think he does have an outside chance if Pogacar is slightly weaker than now and crashes out, and the same thing about Remco. But right now its hard to justify from his perspective going full throttle into the Ardennes - I do think it means a lot basically finishing your early season in Pais Vasco and focus 100% on TdF from there. You can get a big block of rest, go to a vulcano, work on your TT, recon TdF etc etc. It gets a lot more packed if you finish late April. I don't think we should ignore the mental aspect of it either.

I'd keep this schedule and add the Vuelta. Try to win either Paris-Nice or T-A. Maybe throw in Catalunya at some point as well. Try winning Tour de Suisse at some point.