57th Vuelta al Pais Vasco 3-8 April 2017

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

Ridicolous...

Had more or less won the stage if not for the puncture, that should be punishment enough. I guess they are interpreting the rules super literally since he technically punctured before the 3 km marker. I thought the Basques were better than that.

So I heard Contador crashed again. Whats the count this year?

Do you know or care how offensive that sentence is?

I assume you are the kind of guy who cries after the pretty girl has told you that you have a bad hair day? I could also have said that I thought the jury was better than that, but since the race takes place in the Basque Country...

I fail to see the ''offensive'' statement in here, but enlighten me ferryman!

Edit: Ok, thats maybe a bit harsh, but don't get too sensitive now. I love the Basques. Simply just think the decision is rubbish, thats all.

 

[lenric]

Re: Re:

So I heard Contador crashed again. Whats the count this year?

2

Okay, thats not too bad actually, thought it was 3.

He seems to have acquired a knack for falling in the Tour, so that may very well be the third one. Unfortunately.

 

[yaco]

Alaphalippe punctured with 3.3km to go and the Peleton caught him with 3kms to go - Have no idea how the jury have him at 2m 19s behind.

 

[carolina]

Re:

Alaphalippe punctured with 3.3km to go and the Peleton caught him with 3kms to go - Have no idea how the jury have him at 2m 19s behind.

because he arrived 2m19s after the peloton. he had a puncture before the last 3km, so the rule doesn't apply.

it sucks, I know...

 

[42x16ss]

Disgusting Matthews win... he never has his nose in the wind until the last 150 metres.

Then I expect this reaction after every bunch sprint for the rest of the season...

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

So I heard Contador crashed again. Whats the count this year?

2

Okay, thats not too bad actually, thought it was 3.

He seems to have acquired a knack for falling in the Tour, so that may very well be the third one. Unfortunately.

I think most Contador-fans would sell it just crashing once if that crash isn't too bad in July, like the one i Dubai (?) and especially this one in Vasco. Would be fortunate at this point.

 

[barmaher]

HelloDolly,

Do you think this route is as good as routes we have seen in the last few years in Pais Vasco?

 

[Ricco']

Re: Re:

Alaphalippe punctured with 3.3km to go and the Peleton caught him with 3kms to go - Have no idea how the jury have him at 2m 19s behind.

because he arrived 2m19s after the peloton. he had a puncture before the last 3km, so the rule doesn't apply.

it sucks, I know...

Alaphilippe was victim of his aggressive style and the tv coverage. If he had stayed in the bunch and he managed to stay with the peloton until the final 3k's, losing contact after that mark, no one would know if he punctured before or after the 3 km to go banner and he had been given the same time.

The rule should say that s.t. would be given to someone who lost contact with the group in the final 3 k's due to punctures/crashes.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

Alaphalippe punctured with 3.3km to go and the Peleton caught him with 3kms to go - Have no idea how the jury have him at 2m 19s behind.

because he arrived 2m19s after the peloton. he had a puncture before the last 3km, so the rule doesn't apply.

it sucks, I know...

Alaphilippe was victim of his aggressive style and the tv coverage. If he had stayed in the bunch and he managed to stay with the peloton until the final 3k's, losing contact after that mark, no one would know if he punctured before or after the 3 km to go banner and he had been given the same time.

The rule should say that s.t. would be given to someone who lost contact with the group in the final 3 k's due to punctures/crashes.

Thats actually a good point. Pretty propostious to penalise him like this. Seriously, isn't losing what seemed like a sure stage win enough? No point in putting salt in the wounds...

 

[Tonton]

Well said Valv-Piti.

It is what it is, now Julian won't be marked, maybe a BOD in the Arrate stage. Regardless, he's in good form and I can't wait for him to break the curse in a few weeks: "second place is not good" .

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

Re: Re:

I guess Yates must have crashed as he has delayed finish with same time like contador, strange about Alaphillippe, though he could have swapped bike with a teammate, is it because the puncture happened outside the 3k and he rode on.

No, it is because you get the same time as the riders you're with at the moment the accident occurs. And he was alone when the accident occurred. So he gets his own time. Quite a flaw in the rulebook.

At least I don't think it was because he punctured before the 3 kilometer mark. It would certainly be allowed for him to continue past the 3 km mark if that happened inside the peloton (but it would of course be impossible to prove that the accident happened before) so I think that would be the case in this situation as well.

It is precisely because it was before the 3km mark:

Rule 2.6.027
In the case of a duly noted fall, puncture or mechanical incident in the last three kilometers of a road race stage, the rider or riders involved shall be credited with the time of the rider or riders in whose company they were riding at the moment of the accident.

Very unfortunate, but if there is a point after which the rule applies, then there are points before that in which it does not apply. Rough, but so was the luck of Naesen, Boonen, Rowe and many others yesterday.

 

[StryderHells]

Re: Re:

Alaphalippe punctured with 3.3km to go and the Peleton caught him with 3kms to go - Have no idea how the jury have him at 2m 19s behind.

because he arrived 2m19s after the peloton. he had a puncture before the last 3km, so the rule doesn't apply.

it sucks, I know...

Alaphilippe was victim of his aggressive style and the tv coverage. If he had stayed in the bunch and he managed to stay with the peloton until the final 3k's, losing contact after that mark, no one would know if he punctured before or after the 3 km to go banner and he had been given the same time.

The rule should say that s.t. would be given to someone who lost contact with the group in the final 3 k's due to punctures/crashes.

Thats actually a good point. Pretty propostious to penalise him like this. Seriously, isn't losing what seemed like a sure stage win enough? No point in putting salt in the wounds...

Hey why have the rule at all then? Just give everybody the same time on any stage if they have any type of misfortune, they didn't get to win the stage so that should be penalty enough.

 

[SafeBet]

Tough luck, but rules were applied correctly. He could have swapped bikes with a teammate.

 

[johnymax]

After the excitement of the classics and the boredom of today's stage until 25km to go I just couldn't continue watching so I went for a ride. Still think it was a wise decision but it looks like I missed an interesting finale. I'm sorry to hear what happened to Alaphilippe, it really sucks. And hopefully Contador is ok after the crash.

On a side note, I've checked the weather forecast for the next days and it looks like this edition of Vuelta al Pais Vasco will be an unusually dry one.

 

[movingtarget]

I think Matthews was looking at Gerrans at the finish when he turned back. Strike one to Matthews. Aussie one two three. Bad luck for Ala but he wouldn't have stayed away anyway.Too many interested sprinters.

 

[Escarabajo]

Re:

And so yet again a good course is knocked before it begins

On here so many moaned Paris Nice parcours ...and it turned out to eb a great race
So many moaned and moaned Catalunya and it too turned out to be another good race

And so it was with Pais Vasco....

Maybe its just so many on here who think they know everything about parcours just love to moan and indeed know very little

Or they are not happy until every course is the exact same ...Mountain stage, Mountain stage,Mountain stage,Mountain stage,Mountain stage, hilly TT

Who moaned about the Paris-Nice parcours?

 

[Velolover2]

Alaphilippe should target tomorrow's stage. If he can stay with Sagan on Poggio, he can definitely win this stage.

Kwiatkowski, Valverde, can win it too. The 6,5% 1k ramp is made for attacks.

 

[Velolover2]

Re:

Alaphilippe should target tomorrow's stage. If he can stay with Sagan on Poggio, he can definitely win this stage.

Kwiatkowski, Valverde, can win it too. The 6,5% 1k ramp is made for attacks.

He it's downhill all the way to the finish after the ramp.

It's made for Valverde. He kinda attacked yesterday and should do the same thing today.

 

[Sciocco]

Re: Re:

According to Lasterketa Burua (and Cronoescalada profiles, better than the official ones), the last bump is 1.1km at 6%. Today was 1.4km at 3.4%.

Is there bigger images of these?

OK I found this: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C8KiEb2V0AIK8sp.jpg:large

 

[PeterB]

The problem with 3km rule and punctures is that it is not always obvious when the puncture happened. I remember other riders who rode with flat tire into final 3kms in order to benefit from the rule. That is what makes sense to me - if you have mechanical but can ride with it into final 3km, you should be given position you had when entering those 3kms.

 

[tobydawq]

Re: Re:

I guess Yates must have crashed as he has delayed finish with same time like contador, strange about Alaphillippe, though he could have swapped bike with a teammate, is it because the puncture happened outside the 3k and he rode on.

No, it is because you get the same time as the riders you're with at the moment the accident occurs. And he was alone when the accident occurred. So he gets his own time. Quite a flaw in the rulebook.

At least I don't think it was because he punctured before the 3 kilometer mark. It would certainly be allowed for him to continue past the 3 km mark if that happened inside the peloton (but it would of course be impossible to prove that the accident happened before) so I think that would be the case in this situation as well.

It is precisely because it was before the 3km mark:

Rule 2.6.027
In the case of a duly noted fall, puncture or mechanical incident in the last three kilometers of a road race stage, the rider or riders involved shall be credited with the time of the rider or riders in whose company they were riding at the moment of the accident.

Very unfortunate, but if there is a point after which the rule applies, then there are points before that in which it does not apply. Rough, but so was the luck of Naesen, Boonen, Rowe and many others yesterday.

Okay, I have to admit that I thought it was the time a rider stopped riding that was important here - especially because it is impossible for the jury to know exactly when a puncture has occurred. So that rule maybe needs some tweaking. But I realise that the term "accident" is quite unequivocal.

The same can be said for the rule that I have highlighted in your quote. It's pretty unreasonable for him to bepunished so harshly (if the puncture had happened inside the three kilometers which it didn't so this is hypothetical, I know). Imagine that Valverde had followed his attack and the puncture happened inside the 3 kilometer mark. Then he would be all good as opposed to if he was alone. Stupid rule.

 

[SafeBet]

Re: Re:

Okay, I have to admit that I thought it was the time a rider stopped riding that was important here - especially because it is impossible for the jury to know exactly when a puncture has occurred.

It is very easy in this case though.

The 3km rule is already a big help for riders. This is a bike race, crashes and mechanicals are part of the game.

 

[manolo57]

Si Alaphilippe a donc bien franchi les trois derniers kilomètres avec le peloton, le jury des commissaires se base sur le fait que le Français ait montré par un geste de frustration (qu’ils ont pu voir à la télévision) que l’incident est survenu avant les trois derniers kilomètres. De plus, le jury affirme qu’Alaphilippe n’a pas levé le bras pour signaler « officiellement » son incident mécanique.

To translate, the panel said that Alaphilippe showed his frustration and proved by this way that the puncture happened before the last 3k. Moreover, they said that the frenchman didn't raise his arm to "officially" show he had a problem.

Very strange justification...

 

[LaFlorecita]

Si Alaphilippe a donc bien franchi les trois derniers kilomètres avec le peloton, le jury des commissaires se base sur le fait que le Français ait montré par un geste de frustration (qu’ils ont pu voir à la télévision) que l’incident est survenu avant les trois derniers kilomètres. De plus, le jury affirme qu’Alaphilippe n’a pas levé le bras pour signaler « officiellement » son incident mécanique.

To translate, the panel said that Alaphilippe showed his frustration and proved by this way that the puncture happened before the last 3k. Moreover, they said that the frenchman didn't raise his arm to "officially" show he had a problem.

Very strange justification...

Aren't they contradicting themselves he showed frustration before 3km to go so the rule doesn't apply, but he didn't officially show he had an issue... so in that case the rule would have been applied? Or not? Very strange.

 

[Ramon Koran]

Si Alaphilippe a donc bien franchi les trois derniers kilomètres avec le peloton, le jury des commissaires se base sur le fait que le Français ait montré par un geste de frustration (qu’ils ont pu voir à la télévision) que l’incident est survenu avant les trois derniers kilomètres. De plus, le jury affirme qu’Alaphilippe n’a pas levé le bras pour signaler « officiellement » son incident mécanique.

To translate, the panel said that Alaphilippe showed his frustration and proved by this way that the puncture happened before the last 3k. Moreover, they said that the frenchman didn't raise his arm to "officially" show he had a problem.

Very strange justification...

I don't know what the idea behind the last bit is, seems very strange almost as if the French media are trying to stur things up but the first part is spot on. The incident didn't happen within 3km to go end of story no need to add anything else those are the rules