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6 Olympic athletes positive for CERA

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I don't think we can start picking and choosing where to apply the consequences of a positive test. It would get way to complicated. He was positive at the Games and there will be consequences for that. The whole thing continues to be a bl00dy mess.

This will likely effectively end his career. I can't see his racing results pre or post being amended but...stranger things...
 
Mar 10, 2009
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Question:

Does the CERA test give a definite 'yes or no' result? I believe the old EPO test was a bit hit & miss and even though the testers could detect traces of its use in some athletes they were still allowed to continue competing. I suppose the question is: Could there still be athletes who used CERA at the Olympics, but when they were tested the result was not 100% positive so they have been declared negative?

Cheers, lippy
 
Mar 18, 2009
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The thing with tests is that you need to be more than 100 % sure that a rider is doped before it counts as a positive test. I don't remember the exact numbers, but there's some sort of 'quota', so to speak. So even if you do find CERA, it may not be enough to ban the rider, despite the fact that there's no chance in hell that CERA can appear unless you've actually used a doping product.
 

whiteboytrash

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You're kidding me ? Is this the Phil "I think Floyd is innocent" Liggett ? Is this the same guy who said the "blue train" was clean ? OMG what's he talking about drugs for ? What he's saying below is "leave the guy alone, so what what if he took the gear, they all do it, so don't strip him of his wins". Oh please. Would someone get rid of this joker Liggett ?

Alpe d'Huez said:
I like what Phil Liggett had to say about this whole mess. This pulled from CN's main section:

I also have to wonder whether or not we could, or even should, strip Rebellin for his F-W win. He didn't test positive there, did he?* I mean, are we going back and removing Richard Virenque's KOM jerseys, of which at least 4 of them were when he was on EPO and God knows what else. How about Zabel's green jersey when he admitted to being on EPO, like Riis Tour win. How about everything Valverde has won since Operation Puerto, if he's (finally) found guilty? How about Vinokourov's obvious doped up 2006 Vuelta win? Or what about Lance's 1999 Tour, or some of Pantani's wins? Where would this end?

Then again, Kayle Leogrande was stripped from all of his results having lost his hearing for EPO use...

*Yes, I'm aware that the "tested positive" mantra means little, however it is the sanctioning protocol.
 
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jmnikricket said:
It is refreshing that Olympic committee is notifying the riders before the names get leaked to the press. The French could learn a thing or two....

Indeed they could, the ioc have handled this very professionally..

If it does turn out to be rebellin, i understand that the UCI BP program is looking at riders so they are trying to get the procedure and legalities 100% before moving forward, but how comes none of the national agencies have managed to catch him...

does throw the testing procedures in doubt a little bit..

also interesting to compare the reaction to lances "haircut" on here, versus the "oh rebellin, oh well theres a surprise" response.. :D
 
whiteboytrash said:
Oh please. Would someone get rid of this joker Liggett ?

I'm sorry, but you're the joker here. And you chopped out Liggett's words from my post when quoting. Strange.

So, you don't think cycling is being singled out the way he says? That the rules for cycling don't apply to other sports? That cycling doesn't pay for it's honesty? Perhaps you think we should go back to 2000 or so and just pretend no one is doping in cycling? Or have "testing" the way FIFA, or the NBA does?

I do think the IOC did a better job than some other labs in the past, especially with being so thorough with the testing - though it took forever. But it bothers me that Rebellin's name leaked in front of the others. I know it's common practice once the "A" sample report files to have it given to the national federations where an announcement is often made, but why only Rebellin's name? Why not the others from other sports?
 
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screaming fist said:
According to the German website http://www.radsport-news.com CONI has confirmed Rebellin's positive test for CERA.

ok.. so rebellin banned.. lets move on.. next topic.. :D

MILAN, April 29 (Reuters) - Cycling road race silver medallist Davide Rebellin failed a drugs test from the Beijing Games, the Italian Olympic Committee (CONI) said on Wednesday.

"Davide has not done anything. Now we must stay calm in the light of this incredible development," Rebellin's wife and agent Selina Martinello told Gazzetta dello Sport's website (http://www.gazzetta.it).
"We have sent off the request for the analysis of a B sample. We will go on until the end."


http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/feedarticle/8479835
 
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Due to their regular appearances on the podium and the likable manner in which the riders present themselves in public, Team Gerolsteiner is also very much a favorite amongst German cycling fans. Zest for action, the success of young riders and the potential for the future connected to that – these are things that are associated with the team in the public. There is no question about the effectiveness of the cycling team as an advertising medium. According to a study on advertising perception, a third of perceived communication of Gerolsteiner as a brand results from sponsoring. (Research International, May 2006).

“The team has thus turned into an important pillar of our brand communication”, says Jörg Croseck, head of marketing, personnel and sales of the Gerolsteiner Brunnen. “The young riders especially belong to a new cycling generation: free of doping allegations and already claiming a regular slot in international media coverage. Due to the cycling team's success, the brand Gerolsteiner is effectively strengthened in the image dimensions “dynamics” and “performance”. The emotions experienced in the cycling sport provide the impetus that tips the scales toward the Gerolsteiner brand during the purchase decision.” That is why the Gerolsteiner Brunnen renewed its sponsoring commitment to Team Gerolsteiner in 2004, extending it by four years till the end of 2008.

although this in retrospect on the G website amused me... how times change
 
Cycling commentator Phil Liggett was disappointed that cycling will be damaged once more for its efforts to fight the doping issue. He is angry that the only athlete linked to any of the six samples is a cyclist, which he believes demonstrates cycling is being unfairly targeted.

I wouldn't be to worried about this. In my mind the reason Rebellin has been named and noone else isn't because Rebellin is a cyclist but rather because he's an Italian.

The IOC only notified each athletes national olympic committee.

I just think that CONI were quick to go public with the case that they got presented with and the fault is simply with the other national olympic committees that also got informed by the IOC.

Who knows what countries that might be.
 
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be very interesting to see if the other countries and federations are as forthcoming and transparent as the italians have been... ?
 
Oy!

As to Cera. When Roche was developing it, WADA paid them a visit and asked them to help put genetic markers in it that would not change the efficacy of the drug, but make it detectable. After testing, WADA was more than satisfied with the results. But CrueTrue is correct, even though WADA accredited testing can definitely see the Cera, there are still limited values a test much reach in order to be positive. This is why when Ricco tested positive for it, he made the comments that he didn't show more positive tests for it, when he was obviously on it, and some tests came back "negative". They showed Cera all right, it's just that the testing is so in favor of the cyclists (despite whining to the contrary) that the levels were low enough or the test not conclusive enough to immediately be called a positive. One of the biggest problems of testing is that a lot of false negatives slip through.
 
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I rarely take part in discussions in a forum like this, partly because they tend to be flooded with stupid comments and Dan Brown-ish conspiracy theories, and partly because I find it difficult to express myself accurate in english.
However, after reading through nine pages, I have made a couple of observasions.

Cycling fans (not everyone of course) tend to believe that their sport is being targeted more than others, and that it has an undserved bad reputation regarding the use of illegal substances.
Personally, I can't really agree. Cycling may be targeted a lot, but you can't take away the fact that the amount of doping positives by far exceeds any other sport. And you can go on as much as you want with arguments like "our tests are much better" and "cyclists are tested much more than any other athletes", but in the end it all comes down to the history and the culture of the sport.

Cross-country skiers are tested a lot, throughout the year, and I'm sure this applies to a lot of other athletes as well. Still, the amount of positive results are barely none compared to cycling. You can't take that away.

I was going to comment on the fact that only Rebellins name is public as well, but that was nicely summed up by ingsve. You can't really blame anyone but cycling's own governments/journalists.

And don't waste your energy on name-dropping athletes that "maybe" have tested positive. Nothing's written in stone until the IOC makes another official statement. That's very professional, and one of the foundations of a good legal system - no one is guilty until the opposite is proved. That's something we all should have in mind when discussing any rider on any forum at any time.

Have a nice day :)
 
whiteboytrash said:
You're kidding me ? Is this the Phil "I think Floyd is innocent" Liggett ? Is this the same guy who said the "blue train" was clean ? OMG what's he talking about drugs for ? What he's saying below is "leave the guy alone, so what what if he took the gear, they all do it, so don't strip him of his wins". Oh please. Would someone get rid of this joker Liggett ?

no need to get ride of him, but i do wish he would retire.
 
kjetilraknerud said:
... it all comes down to the history and the culture of the sport.

Cross-country skiers are tested a lot, throughout the year, and I'm sure this applies to a lot of other athletes as well. Still, the amount of positive results are barely none compared to cycling. You can't take that away.

I don´t buy that at all.. Just look at Austria's (epo) and Italy's (epo) history in cross country.. not to mention Spain's with Juan Mühlegg (epo!).. This is far more a cultural of residence (can you say it like that) issue than it is a sport's issue.

Compared to cycling cross country is a small sport and I can imagine that if you sum up all that has been caught you will get a procentage that is quite the same.. if it really matters. I wonder how Björn Daehlie could be so better than the rest in the epo era when italians and fins and others were doing epo.
 
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Tin Tin has been hailed his whole career as bastion of cleanliness, much like Frenchman Giles Delion of the 80s,90s. For this to happen at the end of a decade and a half at the top is surprising. But given the decption by many since Festina broke perhaps it is not surprising, trust no one!
 
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bastigon said:
I wonder how Björn Daehlie could be so better than the rest in the epo era when italians and fins and others were doing epo.

So, by this reasonig, Bjørn Daehlie is guilty of doping...because he won against known dopers?

Is that what you are implying here?
 
bastigon said:
I don´t buy that at all.. Just look at Austria's (epo) and Italy's (epo) history in cross country.. not to mention Spain's with Juan Mühlegg (epo!).. This is far more a cultural of residence (can you say it like that) issue than it is a sport's issue.

Compared to cycling cross country is a small sport and I can imagine that if you sum up all that has been caught you will get a procentage that is quite the same.. if it really matters. I wonder how Björn Daehlie could be so better than the rest in the epo era when italians and fins and others were doing epo.

One thing to know about the most prominent nations that were known to have doping programs basically came from almost nowhere historically to suddenly have world class national teams in cross country. This applies to firstly Italy and then even more so with Austria.

Just because you're using EPO doesn't mean you automatically get better than everyone else. It only means you get alot better than you yourself would be without using it.

Another part of it was that during the highlight of Björn Dählies career Norway was world leading in ski preparation so they had overall better equipment than anyone else which is very significant especially in certain weather conditions.
 
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Of course it's also a case of the culture within a specific nation as well, I wont disagree with you on that.
Regarding the number of positive tests. I found some statistics on WADAs homepage. I picked a few different sports, the numbers represent numberofTests, numberofPositives, percentage. Please bear in mind that the statistics represent the sports on any level - no just the top level athletes.

Athletics: 23 305 - 304 - 1,30 %
Cycling: 16 462 - 643 - 3,91 %
Ice Hockey: 4385 - 104 - 2,37 %
Skiing: 3 844 - 71 - 1,85 %
Wightlifting: 6 620 - 200 - 3,09 %

I have only look at it for a couple of minutes, so there is probably a lot of information I haven't taken account of. Here's the link:
http://www.wada-ama.org/rtecontent/document/LABSTATS_2007.PDF

Regarding your last comment; I believe Bjørn Dæhlie was better than the rest because of three things:
1. He did an amazing amount of training
2. The Norwegian Ski Federations used millions of NOK to develop technology, for example waxing(?) methods (not sure about the english term)
3. He had an extremly focused mind.

Edit: And again, I can second ingsve's post.
 
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Alpe d'Huez said:
Oy!

As to Cera. When Roche was developing it, WADA paid them a visit and asked them to help put genetic markers in it that would not change the efficacy of the drug, but make it detectable. After testing, WADA was more than satisfied with the results.

What I read, from a Roche press release, is that they denied that they put 'gentic markers' in a drug that is supposed to be for kidney patients. They stated and I kind of quote that 'the integrity of the drug cannot and will not be jeopardized by adding anything that does not have medicinal purpose'. That sounded perfectly reasonable to me because why would Roche put an impure medicine on the market, with the risk of side effects and law suits when the drug would produce unintended outcomes.

I have heard that they worked together with doping institutions, but to what extent, I do not know. They might have shared a blue print of the drug so that they could develop a testing method, before it was put on the market. Perhaps that's why so many riders haven't gotten caught; the test hasn't been perfected, and gradually better tests become available.
 
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whiteboytrash said:
You're kidding me ? Is this the Phil "I think Floyd is innocent" Liggett ? Is this the same guy who said the "blue train" was clean ? OMG what's he talking about drugs for ? What he's saying below is "leave the guy alone, so what what if he took the gear, they all do it, so don't strip him of his wins". Oh please. Would someone get rid of this joker Liggett ?

Fook me....I actually agree with wbt. :confused:

Ligget is the biggest apologist for the sport and his man-crush for Armstrong is disgusting and unprofessional.

Although his comments above are spot-on, they lack any sense of credibility coming form him.

Time for him to be put out to pasture.
 
595RED said:
Tin Tin has been hailed his whole career as bastion of cleanliness, much like Frenchman Giles Delion of the 80s,90s. For this to happen at the end of a decade and a half at the top is surprising. But given the decption by many since Festina broke perhaps it is not surprising, trust no one!

WTF! In what parallel universe was he hailed as being clean? This is the rider that was caught on video injecting drugs but managed to skate on the charges.