A question about doping in the UK

[badboygolf16v]

Wonder how Jamie Burrow got the Plateau de Beille record?

 

[peterst6906]

Whoops! Was going on the French comments about training facilities around the olympics. But the point I was making still holds true. Britain has a disproportionate high number of indoor training facilities compared to other countries. France may have several indoor tracks, but according to the ones you cite all but two of the indoor ones you cite are in Paris. Not really that great a set-up for a country with such a long cycling history relative to the UK?

You might need to fact check again. Neither Grenoble, Bordeaux or Roubaix are in Paris.

There are also a couple of other indoor velodromes in France outside Paris.

I would also think 3 indoor tracks in The Netherlands is pretty accessible for almost the entire population.

Though overall, there doesn't need to be an over emphasis on indoor tracks to produce stars, only a good scholarship program at 1 is enough.

Australia is a good example of that.

 

[ultimobici]

You might need to fact check again. Neither Grenoble, Bordeaux or Roubaix are in Paris.

There are also a couple of other indoor velodromes in France outside Paris.

I would also think 3 indoor tracks in The Netherlands is pretty accessible for almost the entire population.

Though overall, there doesn't need to be an over emphasis on indoor tracks to produce stars, only a good scholarship program at 1 is enough.

Australia is a good example of that.

Roubaix is an outdoor track.

http://inrng.com/2012/08/british-cycling-funding/

Paris may have a few tracks but despite being indoor they require thermal clothing to train there. And they wonder why they come up short?

 

[peterst6906]

Roubaix is an outdoor track.

http://inrng.com/2012/08/british-cycling-funding/

Paris may have a few tracks but despite being indoor they require thermal clothing to train there. And they wonder why they come up short?

Oh boy. There are 2 tracks:

http://en.velodrome-couvert-roubaix.com/

You might want to check that link.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I thought he was talking about Chris Froome.

Anyway, doping does not take place in the UK. You only have to look at the Brits who have been caught doping.

Chambers- forced into it by the evil Yanks
Christie- Jamaican
Rusedski- Canadian
Dettori_Italian
Millar- forced into it by the evil European doping culture
Simpson-doesn't count because you can't talk ill of the dead.

So basically, the only Brits to be exposed as drug cheats either weren't really British at all or they were forced into it by Johnny Foreigner.

What about Ohuorogu and Ferdinand, or are they just lovable goofs like Dupont and Dupond who are just a bit forgetful sometimes? Even though Ferdinand knew about his test and ran away from it? Was he just in a hurry to get to the shops?

 

[ultimobici]

Oh boy. There are 2 tracks:

http://en.velodrome-couvert-roubaix.com/

You might want to check that link.

Manchester has been open for almost 20 years, Roubaix a mere 6 months. It doesn't count. Bercy & Bordeaux are comparable in age but the fact remains, France is a country that has cycling in its DNA, Britain does not. Yet we have much more advanced facilities and more funding. No wonder we have topped the tables.

 

[JimmyFingers]

What about Ohuorogu and Ferdinand, or are they just lovable goofs like Dupont and Dupond who are just a bit forgetful sometimes? Even though Ferdinand knew about his test and ran away from it? Was he just in a hurry to get to the shops?

He was being tongue in cheek. Plenty of British dopers caught and suspected, although not on the scale of plenty of other countries. It must be a joy to all to have another platform to discuss them here yet again

 

[JimmyFingers]

Manchester has been open for almost 20 years, Roubaix a mere 6 months. It doesn't count. Bercy & Bordeaux are comparable in age but the fact remains, France is a country that has cycling in its DNA, Britain does not. Yet we have much more advanced facilities and more funding. No wonder we have topped the tables.

FFS its the magic wheels don't you know!

 

[peterst6906]

What about Ohuorogu and Ferdinand, or are they just lovable goofs like Dupont and Dupond who are just a bit forgetful sometimes? Even though Ferdinand knew about his test and ran away from it? Was he just in a hurry to get to the shops?

Missed drug tests don't count as real drug violations do they?

Any anyway, in Rio's case he was born in Denmark Hill, London. Again, foreign implications..

 

[Bernie's eyesore]

What about Ohuorogu and Ferdinand, or are they just lovable goofs like Dupont and Dupond who are just a bit forgetful sometimes? Even though Ferdinand knew about his test and ran away from it? Was he just in a hurry to get to the shops?

Both clean, footballers dont even take PEDs so why would Ferdinand need to?

As for Ohurugo, since her ban she has won World and Olympic titles and Olympic silver? Are you seriously suggesting she has improved now she is racing clean?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Both clean, footballers dont even take PEDs so why would Ferdinand need to?

As for Ohurugo, since her ban she has won World and Olympic titles and Olympic silver? Are you seriously suggesting she has improved now she is racing clean?

She's run sub-50" 3 times in her career - two Olympic finals and a World Championships final.

She runs at her best when the pressure's on.

 

[peterst6906]

Manchester has been open for almost 20 years, Roubaix a mere 6 months. It doesn't count. Bercy & Bordeaux are comparable in age but the fact remains, France is a country that has cycling in its DNA, Britain does not. Yet we have much more advanced facilities and more funding. No wonder we have topped the tables.

Ah so now the time a track has been open is a qualifying factor of whether it is an indoor track or not. Easier just to say, yep it was a mistake than to dig heals in when posting rubbish.

This line of discussion is still on topic because it points to reasons why someone would assume doping is not part of British cycling culture, but I just don't see how the presence of no additional indoor tracks than France makes the UK a track powerhouse.

It's more than that. The Netherlands also has cycling in its DNA and good access to indoor tracks, but it isn't as dominant at elite level.

Australia has 5 indoor tracks, but produces a large number of track elite cyclists from regions with access to outdoor facilities only.

The number of indoor tracks isn't a driving factor for success (the investment is symptomatic of a larger culture, not a driver of the culture). There is a lot more importance on good coaching programs and competition, whether indoor or outdoor.

And even with this, it doesn't preclude doping from becoming part of the process. Australia is unfortunately also a good example of that.

So to point at the number of indoor tracks (not particularly higher than other countries anyway) and use that as a reason for the success is silly. That alone doesn't preclude doping from the equation and examples exist elsewhere to show that even with good indoor facilities, doping can also become part of the formula for success.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

He was being tongue in cheek. Plenty of British dopers caught and suspected, although not on the scale of plenty of other countries. It must be a joy to all to have another platform to discuss them here yet again

So was I, hence the Dupont and Dupond reference.

Boom! One day your car goes boom!

 

[JimmyFingers]

So was I, hence the Dupont and Dupond reference.

Boom! One day your car goes boom!

Ah ok, in English they were called Thomson and Thompson, hence why I missed the reference! Google is my friend

 

[BroDeal]

Why dope when you have marginal gains?

I have it on good authority from martinvickers himself that Brits don't dope.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Why dope when you have marginal gains?

I have it on good authority from martinvickers himself that Brits don't dope.

He should know, he's Irish

 

[thehog]

Hoggie

I know about Pantani, but was Virenque also a hero?

The question that needs to be asked is not why wouldn't I take drugs, but why would I? I know exactly why I wouldn't dope. To start with, I come to professional road-racing from a different background to a lot of guys. There is a different culture in British cycling. Britain is a country where doping is not morally acceptable. I was born in Belgium but I grew up in the British environment, with the Olympic side of the sport as well as the Tour de France. I don't care what people say, the attitude to doping in the UK is different to in Italy or France maybe, where a rider like Richard Virenque can dope, be caught, be banned, come back and be a national hero.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2012/jul/13/bradley-wiggins-dope-drugs

 

[BroDeal]

He should know, he's Irish

It goes double for Irish.

 

[JimmyFingers]

It goes double for Irish.

The Irish don't double dope?

 

[Granville57]

It goes double for Irish.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/double-irish

 

[martinvickers]

He should know, he's Irish

I have Brodeal on ignore, but...WTF?? Seriously, WTF??

 

[Radders]

I think it would be extremely naive to think there wasnt an element of doping in the UK. Aside from the previously mentioned amateur, I think there was another higher level amateur that was busted in 2011.

There are a few guys on the domestic scene who look a little too good, but to be honest the whole drug issue has become such a farce its hard to know what to think these days.

With regards to recreational use of PEDS / Steroids, my only other observation is what I've seen recently at my local gym. I used to do quite a lot of weight training, then stopped for a few years when I moved from triathlon to focus on road racing. In the last few months I've been going back to the gym and I've been slightly taken aback at how big / defined / cut a lot of the guys are, particularly late teens, early 20's. Perhaps they are all just working a lot harder than people did 10 or so years ago, or the whole 'sports nutrition' thing has moved on a lot, but something just doesnt look as it should. There are a couple of obvious suspects with excess acne on back and shoulders, but I'm more than a little suspicious.

Perhaps I'm just old and bitter

 

[Dear Wiggo]

We try to keep food & drugs separate in the UK. I take it from your woefully misinformed comments about the UK that you don't live here, or have only recently arrived?

It isn't perfect, but then what country is?

As for the medal haul, compare a few country's facilities
USA - 2 Indoor tracks (one derelict)
Italy - One indoor track
France - One indoor track
Holland - 3 indoor tracks
UK - 4 indoor tracks (one more in construction)

That's a big advantage, especially when two of those existing tracks are acknowledged as among the best in the world.

I noticed you carefully left Australia's count off that list.

I also think if you're going to brag about indoor tracks you should explain they are required in the UK, where the weather is toilet-worthy, vs France, Italy and the USA where they have a real summer.

 

[BroDeal]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/double-irish

The 'Double Irish' Dodge sounds much cooler than marginal gains. I petition Sky to refer to their cover story as the Double Irish Dodge from now on.

 

[Granville57]

The 'Double Irish' Dodge sounds much cooler than marginal gains. I petition Sky to refer to their cover story as the Double Irish Dodge from now on.

Only problem with that, though, is the acronym. Wiggo and Brailsford already got a lock on D.I.D.

Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID) is a severe condition in which two or more distinct identities, or personality states, are present in—and alternately take control of—an individual. The person also experiences memory loss that is too extensive to be explained by ordinary forgetfulness.
http://www.psychologytoday.com/conditions/dissociative-identity-disorder-multiple-personality-disorder

Uh-oh.