A Question About Indurain...

[D-Queued]

The way people misrepresent that ITT is quite silly. Armstrong (not yet 23 years old at the time) did a very good time-trial, top 15. It's just that Indurain was ridiculous that day.

He did a great TT that day, and was clearly already doping - he was within a minute of Boardman and 'not normal'. He ended the day in 10th on GC.

BUT, this is also a guy who was doing a similar thing to his rivals a few years later.

Even doped up, Armstrong was NOT in the same class as other multi-Tour winners.

Dave.

 

[roundabout]

in the 80s he was near 90 kg. he was under 80 by early to mid 90s.

he was always heavy yes. but compare him to ullrich, who was an enormously natural talent also in gt's. he was 183 and 73 in absolute topshape. indurain was 188x78 in absolute topshape, not so much a difference imo. and in talent comparable I'd say.

80 kilos in 1986.

http://hemeroteca.mundodeportivo.com/preview/1986/09/23/pagina-40/1147123/pdf.html

 

[Big Doopie]

one can generally say when the colombians were beaten in the mountains, epo really took a jump. early 90s

agreed. herrera disappeared.

 

[Big Doopie]

80 kilos in 1986.

http://hemeroteca.mundodeportivo.com/preview/1986/09/23/pagina-40/1147123/pdf.html

but...but... but he lost 10 kgs. he did. he did. that's why he became a climber.

where have we heard that one before.

in 1991, indurain, chiappucci and bugno were on epo.

mottet, fignon, hampsten, lemond and leblanc were not.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

but...but... but he lost 10 kgs. he did. he did. that's why he became a climber.

where have we heard that one before.

in 1991, indurain, chiappucci and bugno were on epo.

mottet, fignon, hampsten, lemond and leblanc were not.

why don't you go to the media with this? you have some incredible knowledge none of us have. pls share it

 

[Big Doopie]

why don't you go to the media with this? you have some incredible knowledge none of us have. pls share it

thanks for realizing this. i always thought it was obvious.

 

[gerundium]

yes, back in the 80s he was dropping pro's like fly's while a junior in training himself. there are even videos of it on youtube

got any links for this? Kinda curious to see this.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Sure thing, lost 10 kilos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=6eItUnGSK2Q#t=801s

Thankx, that video is so funny. Big Mig, The One Man Team Time Trial Machine.

Disgusting stuff, sorry D-Queued.

Indurain was the poster boy for how epo could literally make a decent rider into a GT champion.

Big Mig is comparable to a Cancellara, Tony Martin not Hinault, LeMond, Fignon, or other mulit GT winners. No chance.

Watching him 'motor' past Millar in the Pyrennes was alien.

Add Bugno and Capuccino and some other mtf's and the picture is clear. This stuff still ****es me off, big time.

got any links for this? Kinda curious to see this.

HE has none, he is talking BS.

 

[esafosfina]

oh the good old rumors... those must be facts!

Ryo... those were the rumours in the peloton. Just that. No facts, how could there be? Nothing implied, just first-hand anecdotal experience mate. Doubtful you were there, I was.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

got any links for this? Kinda curious to see this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6WETnJcopY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSBbxJrkCqU

here I have a video of a race in which he was 19 against elite and pro riders

his talent in climbing will probably stay unmatched till the end of time. the man was always a monstrous talent, that everyone talked about since him being a novice already. anyone italian should be able to confirm this. his story is the saddest one in cycling I dare say as he got treated the worst for doing the least of all the ****. gotti(who was one big joke on a bike anyway) winning the giro 99 with a higher hematocrite than pantani for instance...

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Ryo... those were the rumours in the peloton. Just that. No facts, how could there be? Nothing implied, just first-hand anecdotal experience mate. Doubtful you were there, I was.

ah and you are? from what I've known those rumors were never about epo though. delgado I believe I've heard did bloodtransfusions but his results in 90 and 89 for instance where never out of the ordinary imo. so why give indurain all the best **** and not delgado? despite delgado being leader in 89 and 1990(where indurain really shone)

 

[Dr. Maserati]

ah and you are? from what I've known those rumors were never about epo though. delgado I believe I've heard did bloodtransfusions but his results in 90 and 89 for instance where never out of the ordinary imo. so why give indurain all the best **** and not delgado? despite delgado being leader in 89 and 1990(where indurain really shone)

He is a Pro rider from the late 80's early 90's - to those of us who remember those times he is very well known then and now.

 

[pmcg76]

ah and you are? from what I've known those rumors were never about epo though. delgado I believe I've heard did bloodtransfusions but his results in 90 and 89 for instance where never out of the ordinary imo. so why give indurain all the best **** and not delgado? despite delgado being leader in 89 and 1990(where indurain really shone)

The person you are quoting was a pro cyclist for a number of the years in question and was world class in their particular discipline.

He did say they were rumours, not facts. Like any group I am sure there was lot's of gossip in the pro peleton.

 

[esafosfina]

Thank you Dr Maserati and pmcg76... much appreciated. Ryo, I am not trying to belittle you, but whispers within a tight-knit community such as the peloton of the day were pretty accurate.

 

[Benotti69]

Thank you Dr Maserati and pmcg76... much appreciated. Ryo, I am not trying to belittle you, but whispers within a tight-knit community such as the peloton of the day were pretty accurate.

I wonder lose any sleep over Signor Hazuki.

I imagine the whispers were rampant everyday going down the road before the hard racing started.

 

[SafeBet]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6WETnJcopY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSBbxJrkCqU

here I have a video of a race in which he was 19 against elite and pro riders

his talent in climbing will probably stay unmatched till the end of time. the man was always a monstrous talent, that everyone talked about since him being a novice already. anyone italian should be able to confirm this. his story is the saddest one in cycling I dare say as he got treated the worst for doing the least of all the ****. gotti(who was one big joke on a bike anyway) winning the giro 99 with a higher hematocrite than pantani for instance...

Thanks man, I had never seen those videos. The interview got me emotional.
It's quite hard to talk about Marco for me. Clearly the biggest talent I've seen on a bike, and he was like that from the start.
He went from national hero to biggest fraud in a one year span, payed for everybody (at least in Italy). People don't realize how many fans over here literally dropped cycling because of this whole thing. It was unbelievable.

He cheated, can't deny that. But talent was always there.

 

[D-Queued]

Thankx, that video is so funny. Big Mig, The One Man Team Time Trial Machine.

Disgusting stuff, sorry D-Queued.
Add Bugno and Capuccino and some other mtf's and the picture is clear. This stuff still ****es me off, big time.HE has none, he is talking BS.

Bugno?



Crushed, just crushed.

Cancellara, ok.

But Ghat-O-Rad-ay?

The best thing Mig did for cycling was hand Bugno his **** on a platter.

Dave.

 

[Oldman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6WETnJcopY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSBbxJrkCqU

here I have a video of a race in which he was 19 against elite and pro riders

his talent in climbing will probably stay unmatched till the end of time. the man was always a monstrous talent, that everyone talked about since him being a novice already. anyone italian should be able to confirm this. his story is the saddest one in cycling I dare say as he got treated the worst for doing the least of all the ****. gotti(who was one big joke on a bike anyway) winning the giro 99 with a higher hematocrite than pantani for instance...

While he was the best climber of the time there are few that felt elite amateurs in Italy were running on panniagua. The video reminded me of Mammoth Stage race about the same time when a junior did the same things to US Pros, elite amateurs and some Soviets including Bobrik....Johnathan Vaughters. JV got bigger but was amazing for his age.

 

[D-Queued]

While he was the best climber of the time there are few that felt elite amateurs in Italy were running on panniagua. The video reminded me of Mammoth Stage race about the same time when a junior did the same things to US Pros, elite amateurs and some Soviets including Bobrik....Johnathan Vaughters. JV got bigger but was amazing for his age.

Thanks for stating the obvious (sincerely).

Doping starts earlier than mid-twenties.

Dave.

 

[Zweistein]

how about lemond? the guy was 175 x 71. and wasn't build as a climber at all.]

one can generally say when the colombians were beaten in the mountains, epo really took a jump. early 90s

Lemond rode the tours at 145-150 lbs. Not much different from Fignon or Hinault.

 

[hrotha]

Thanks for stating the obvious (sincerely).

Doping starts earlier than mid-twenties.

Dave.

But this wasn't the mid 90s, when the Italian amateurs had hematocrits that would rival with Riis's. This was 1989.

Unfortunately we can't rule out some Italian amateurs using EPO even back then, but it does seem unlikely.

 

[jam pants]

ah and you are? from what I've known those rumors were never about epo though. delgado I believe I've heard did bloodtransfusions but his results in 90 and 89 for instance where never out of the ordinary imo. so why give indurain all the best **** and not delgado? despite delgado being leader in 89 and 1990(where indurain really shone)

Thanks for the laugh!

 

[Flux Capacity]

...little did we know that the arms race had begun. that soon huge men with large a$$es were going to fly up mountains...

I dunno if this is true, but I heard that Phil Anderson once said: "When flabby white guys start flying past me up mountains at 35km/h, you know something's fishy"

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Thanks man, I had never seen those videos. The interview got me emotional.
It's quite hard to talk about Marco for me. Clearly the biggest talent I've seen on a bike, and he was like that from the start.
He went from national hero to biggest fraud in a one year span, payed for everybody (at least in Italy). People don't realize how many fans over here literally dropped cycling because of this whole thing. It was unbelievable.

He cheated, can't deny that. But talent was always there.

I know very well. after pantani and in less way cipo. cycling in italy took a huge hit in popularity it never recovered from

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Lemond rode the tours at 145-150 lbs. Not much different from Fignon or Hinault.

150 pounds is 68 kg and 174. that's like evans, who the almost entire clinic, thinks is doped