ADD ( Anti Doping Denmark) report..

[TheGreenMonkey]

Re: Re:

Jensie said (gtranslate)

And 1998 is so long ago. How long will you punish them? They did not commit murder or robbery or other serious crimes?

Robbery it was of a kind: robbing from types like Bassons.

excellent spot.
sums it up: they don't think it's robbery. just part of being a pro.

Classic self deluding self justification, they have no guilt for what they do.

 

[Archibald]

Re: Re:

https://twitter.com/StueyOG/status/613592680719740928

I would have thought that not doping was an achievement. But then Stuey wouldn't know much about that now would he!

can see Stuey getting cramps from hitting the 'block' button so much... great responses

 

[neineinei]

ADD sought evidence from Puerto. Didn't get any, of course.

http://www.jyllands-posten.dk/protected/premium/sport/ECE7824709/Danske-dopingj%C3%A6gere-blev-n%C3%A6gtet-oplysninger-der-f%C3%A6ldede-Riis-stjerne/

VG gives Arvesen the usual "you say you didn't see anything, but look at all these doping cases from CSC riders, are you sure you are just blind and deaf?" After all, the same sort of treatment got to Kjærgaard in the end.
http://www.vg.no/sport/sykkel/sykkel/kaggestad-det-har-opplagt-vaert-systematisk-doping-i-csc-miljoeet/a/23476105/

 

[LeindersGains]

Re:

How will Team Zero Tolerance respond to that headline? They are his employers after all.

 

[LeindersGains]

Before he was partying with the dirty guys, but now he is in a clean man's uniform.

 

[neineinei]

They are Sevaris Knavens employer too, and his history is good enough for them, so...

 

[sniper]

Re:

They are Sevaris Knavens employer too, and his history is good enough for them, so...

exactemundo.
you couldn't make this stuff up.

 

[blackcat]

Re:

Jens was a pro 1997-2014, retired with good but not amazing results. He might have been one of the biggest winners of his time had he not been up against so much cheating. Wow, what an amazing man to retire and not be bitter about any of it. Such an exemplary example to us all

was not he in the move with Vino at Liege where Vino won and he was second.

Jens had a phenomenal career. it would definitely be great if he pull off a monument like Liege

pity he is such a d!ck yet the joe public and succour moms lap up his milquetoast scatology

 

[Berzin]

So Riis is gone, and it turns out he wasn't the doping mastermind Bruyneel was, not by a long shot.

And is now replaced by Olev Tinkov and Vinokourov. Poetic justice for those wanting Riis' head. Look what you're stuck with now.

 

[sniper]

Re:

So Riis is gone, and it turns out he wasn't the doping mastermind Bruyneel was, not by a long shot.

i'm not following here.
why was he any more or less of a mastermind than bruyneel?
did they do anything largely different?

 

[hrotha]

Yes, people were sure removing Riis would fix everything. Yawn.

 

[Bronstein]

Re:

So Riis is gone, and it turns out he wasn't the doping mastermind Bruyneel was, not by a long shot.

And is now replaced by Olev Tinkov and Vinokourov. Poetic justice for those wanting Riis' head. Look what you're stuck with now.

How is Riis different to Bruyneel?

 

[Benotti69]

Re:

So Riis is gone, and it turns out he wasn't the doping mastermind Bruyneel was, not by a long shot.

And is now replaced by Olev Tinkov and Vinokourov. Poetic justice for those wanting Riis' head. Look what you're stuck with now.

Actually Riis was more of a mastermind than Bruyneel.

Riis walked away with no ban and 6million in his back pocket.

Oleg is not new to the sport and Vino is old school. On top of these 2 dont forget Rihs/Och, JV, Brailsford, Lefevere, Martinelli etc etc.........a barrell full of rotten apples

 

[hrotha]

But Benotti, most of those don't even have anything to do with Armstrong, so Berzin won't understand.

 

[mrhender]

Motorhomes etc...

Seems the motorhome marginal gain is as old as all the other ones...

http://ekstrabladet.dk/sport/cykling/tidligere-riis-rytter-jeg-vidste-der-foregik-noget/5623664

Previously, Riis-rider: I knew something was going on

Allan Johansen lived in Luxembourg as riders on the Danish team operated a doping center, but he never saw concrete evidence of doping, he said.

To take advantage of the international tax optimally lumpy Danish riders in the beginning of the 00s together in apartments in Luxembourg, where both four and five riders could share address.

One of them was Allan Johansen, who was relatively new in the professional field. He ran when the Memory Card Jack & Jones, later to Team CSC, and he soon realized that there was something fishy in the wings.

- I could see that there was something that was suspicious. The doctors measured constantly riders' hematocrit value and it does not happen for no reason, says Allan Johansen, who is now sporting director at the continental team Trefor-Blue Water.

Hematocrit is a measurement of the number of red blood cells. Exceeds the percentage of red blood cells in the blood 50 percent, it is generally regarded as a sign of doping.

Among other Danish riders residing in Luxembourg in 2000, Michael Blaudzun, Mikael Kyneb, Rene Jorgensen, Martin Rittsel, Michael Steen Nielsen, Lennie Kristensen and Bjarke Schmidt Nielsen.

Allan Johansen, as against Anti Doping Denmark (ADD) and Sports Confederation of Denmark (DIF) have given evidence to the recently published 'Report on doping in Danish cycling', so no concrete evidence of doping. But he knew that there was something that could not stand the light of day.

- I was young and naive and green, so I dare to simply not say anything to anyone. I had the choice between saying something and stop cycling. Such were the conditions at the time, says Allan Johansen.

- It was surprising that the riders on the team was tested all the time, and why should Jesper Skibby (team captain, ed.) Sleep out in the motor home rather than at the hotel when we were out to race?

- There were many things I wondered, and I changed in 2001 to Team Facts and moved to Belgium because there was so much suspicion on the team, said Allan Johansen.

'Smith', as he is called, has always declared itself clean. He supports his claim that he in 2000 was "run in half 'in Flanders and had to retire after 160 kilometers, while in 2008, he finished 10th in the race.

- It was the development of the sport. I did my best results towards the end of my career where doping was on the way out, says Allan Johansen.

- In the beginning I could simply not keep up. I could only when the sport was cleaner.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Good find.

 

[Netserk]

Re: Re:

So Riis is gone, and it turns out he wasn't the doping mastermind Bruyneel was, not by a long shot.

i'm not following here.
why was he any more or less of a mastermind than bruyneel?
did they do anything largely different?

Google Translate:
Jaksche came to Team CSC from the Spanish team ONCE, when all drug use was organized by the team. This meant that Jaksche did not know much about how much doping, one should take and what substances could be tested for when he started at Team CSC in 2004. Team CSC was doping need not organized by the team. Riis told him that team doctors were there to give advice and information, but that they would never deliver EPO, testosterone or growth hormone for the riders. The doctors would just make sure to give cortisone and Synachten directly to the riders. Jaksche also received saline injections by doctors at Team CSC to bring the hematocrit down.

 

[mrhender]

Re: Re:

So Riis is gone, and it turns out he wasn't the doping mastermind Bruyneel was, not by a long shot.

i'm not following here.
why was he any more or less of a mastermind than bruyneel?
did they do anything largely different?

Google Translate:
Jaksche came to Team CSC from the Spanish team ONCE, when all drug use was organized by the team. This meant that Jaksche did not know much about how much doping, one should take and what substances could be tested for when he started at Team CSC in 2004. Team CSC was doping need not organized by the team. Riis told him that team doctors were there to give advice and information, but that they would never deliver EPO, testosterone or growth hormone for the riders. The doctors would just make sure to give cortisone and Synachten directly to the riders. Jaksche also received saline injections by doctors at Team CSC to bring the hematocrit down.

My view is that Riis was simply more careful than JB....

Which makes one the no.1 doing mastermind is up to interpretation as they apparently had different deals going with authorities...

 

[Netserk]

I'd say that it was far easier to be a clean rider on Riis' team than that of ONCE, Disco etc. It's also quite clear that the whole team didn't get as much dope as those other teams did (like how Jaksche was only introduced to Fuentes after he left CSC).

 

[mrhender]

Re:

I'd say that it was far easier to be a clean rider on Riis' team than that of ONCE, Disco etc. It's also quite clear that the whole team didn't get as much dope as those other teams did (like how Jaksche was only introduced to Fuentes after he left CSC).

I would agree with this...

I was responding more to the question of "doping mastermind"...

I mean forcing (all) your riders to take doping does not make you a mastermind more than the guy that keeps himself and his riders more "safe and quiet"...

The point is: Mastermind is not necessarily the one doping his riders the most....

JB is not standing, but Riis is... Despite many people being in his tail for years and years...

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

So Riis is gone, and it turns out he wasn't the doping mastermind Bruyneel was, not by a long shot.

i'm not following here.
why was he any more or less of a mastermind than bruyneel?
did they do anything largely different?

Google Translate:
Jaksche came to Team CSC from the Spanish team ONCE, when all drug use was organized by the team. This meant that Jaksche did not know much about how much doping, one should take and what substances could be tested for when he started at Team CSC in 2004. Team CSC was doping need not organized by the team. Riis told him that team doctors were there to give advice and information, but that they would never deliver EPO, testosterone or growth hormone for the riders. The doctors would just make sure to give cortisone and Synachten directly to the riders. Jaksche also received saline injections by doctors at Team CSC to bring the hematocrit down.

So if ONCE had a team doping program there goes Sastre's 'clean' rider story.........

 

[Benotti69]

Re:

I'd say that it was far easier to be a clean rider on Riis' team than that of ONCE, Disco etc. It's also quite clear that the whole team didn't get as much dope as those other teams did (like how Jaksche was only introduced to Fuentes after he left CSC).

Not really. I bet Riis had riders snitch on other riders and he also had a direct line with team docs and Fuentes. If riders were given stuff to take in their own homes and not showing any improvement they would've been called on it and a guy like Riis would not carry dead weight on the team.

This also points to Sastre managing his own program.

 

[Gung Ho Gun]

Re:

I'd say that it was far easier to be a clean rider on Riis' team than that of ONCE, Disco etc. It's also quite clear that the whole team didn't get as much dope as those other teams did (like how Jaksche was only introduced to Fuentes after he left CSC).

Yes but Jaksche left after 2004
The results seem to indicate that CSC stepped their doping program up another notch the year after, becoming the best team in the world for four years straight

 

[Netserk]

They were already pretty damn good in '04. I doubt the team program part of the riders' doping changed much the following years.

 

[Metabolol]

I wonder how many of the current teams have organized doping programs. If your outsource it and have riders handle their business themselves it's easier to distance the team from the rider in case he gets caught but at the other hand you can't be certain that they don't mess up. If it's more organized you have more control but if someone talks then you have a big mess.