Ads In Threads

[boomcie]

So that link supposedly shows 20 of the craziest bikes ever made, but only 9 are laughs...

I wonder what the other 11 bikes are like.

 

[Thomsena]

they should probably advertise porn site while they are at it

 

[Francois the Postman]

to Steve.Hulbert@futurenet.com; Charlotte.Pratten@futurenet.com
Advertising Sales Manager - Online; Group Marketing Manager

=====

Hi Charlotte and Steve,

I am one of the volunteer moderators on the cyclingnews forum, and I am writing you to say that I feel that you have crossed a line, for me, on the cycling forum, with the inclusion of Outbrain advertising and its chosen location on the forum, breaking up the content flow that is generated by its users.

For clarity: I am not talking about the main site, I am talking about the forum.

Forums like this are supposed to strike a balance between what we do for you, and what you do for us. We provide free content and interest (that attracts more traffic). And you provide us with the maintained backbone and server space. What we get is a place to discuss with people that share our interest and frequently get the news from around the world well before it is picked up by the main site. What you get is more paid jobs and higher profits. For years, I and many others, evidently, have been fine with this arrangement.

As a mod, you also get my unpaid time, and that of my fellow-mods, to make sure that you can present a site to advertisers that has quality posts, a welcoming atmosphere, is on topic, and thus attractive to a wide and diverse audience. As mods, we do the work that you normally would have to pay for, for the love of the community, for free.

If it all works well it is a beautiful symbiosis, and we all give and take.

Now, in a short space of time, you have shown twice that you are willing to milk our voluntary and free contributions with little regard for the feeling it generates in the community you profess to treasure. You have done that by disrupting the fabric of the place to the point where you put the user-driven content so firmly below advertising-opportunity .

First with those skim-ads, now with the Outbrain ads.

These last ones are

1) Breaking up the flow of the user content. More annoying to read means less likely to read.
2) Ads to the side an top and bottom is one thing, this is making the only attraction of the forum look like a site that doesn’t particularly cherish its own content more than it does adverts. CN has become an “ad-site”. The ratio of ads to content of the top of pages is pitiful.
3) The reports of auto-generated ads suggest they are utterly inappropriate to the site. They are either hilariously off-topic or, given the reports we get, or push dating agencies for overseas brides, cheapening the look and feel of the site. Many of the ads fly in the face of the message we as mods get about the tone and feel of the site we should aim for, or are the sort of stuff your word-filter is discouraging …. Go figure.
4) Evidently prompting several people to install ad-blocking add-ons, so your paying advertisers lose exposure through your choice alone (congrats, I hope people point that out to them).

MOSTLY, they are

5) Reminding all of us, thread click by thread click, that we are being milked for every possible penny without regards of what we, as the community that adds value to your site for free, wants or actually offers. No communication, no consultation, not even with any of the people “on your side of the pay roll” who, also evidently, more clued up about the feeling that this generates in the community “you support” .

It is clear that it is about the balance sheet for FP, and to some degree I have no problem with that. But by showing how out of touch you are with the actual forum itself, and how disrespectful you are to the actual content you are profiting from, and letting us handle a community revolt twice too, unpaid, without any warning, I am starting to wonder how well your balance sheet is balanced.

In the end, like all voluntary mods, it is about balance for us too. Is this a forum community I want to give to, free, at no cost? To the benefit of others?

This is increasingly starting to feel like a milking exercise in one direction only, and apparently you are willing to lose the sort of people who have given me, and the forum, more support, information and entertainment than the support or appreciation than I have ever experienced from CN or FP. And that includes begging for code fixes that take 1 minute to implement, and keep being reported time and time again as “annoying”.

I hope your balance sheet includes the potential loss of people willing to do things for free around here, and the havoc you guys wreak on the community feeling of the forum.

I hope you reconsider the implementation of this on the forum, or at the very least communicate with the people involved, or better the forum directly, about how to best implement it, if at all, to figure out what is tolerable to everyone. It is give and take. Surely there is a better way that keeps everyone ok-enough with things and it won’t come to the point where people stop giving the stuff that is taken far too much for granted “on balance sheets”?

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?p=760486#post760486

Yours Truly,

 

[boomcie]

Francois.

I know we've all already been through this yesterday when you contacted me as your proofreader, but seriously:

 

[Michielveedeebee]

Nice one Francois, huge thanks for this

Francois.

I know we've all already been through this yesterday when you contacted me as your proofreader, but seriously:

Also Boomcie, that's one hell of a

 

[Barrus]

Does anyone actually know of a good cycling forum where we can all migrate towards when these ads stay up?

I myself find it pretty telling and completely expected that we have yet had any word from CN itself, and as the post by Francois shows, neither have the moderators.

To be quite honest I would not mind the ads, if they were like those I sometimes get in these threads, solely ads for articles by CN itself, but the instances when this is the case are few and far inbetween

 

[Francois the Postman]

I myself find it pretty telling and completely expected that we have yet had any word from CN itself, and as the post by Francois shows, neither have the moderators.

The forum itself hasn't heard a beep yet Barrus, but "we" have had one. One.

Just to keep the facts straight, according to Dan (the only face of CN that I have ever had dealings with), this is coming down straight from the Future Publishing ad dept. CN itself (in the form of Dan) has also touched base in the staff room now, and had some PM exchanges with Susan prior to that. He found out the same way we all did, it isn't for me to say what he said there, about the ads.

Still, Race Radio's assumptions about lines of influence appear pretty close to the mark, so if you have anything to say, positive or negative, voice it to the people who are in the driving seat on this one, and need convincing. Via direct emails, or here, if you want to put it on public record.

 

[pedaling squares]

Thanks Francois for sending that message and for posting it here.

I'll go on record to say that putting these ads directly in threads is a poor way to treat forum members, and dumping such a disruptive addition into the forum without warning the moderator team is piss-poor way to treat your volunteers. I imagine the mods have received numerous PM's on this and have exchanged a few "WTF?" posts in the staff room. Not the way to treat the people 'working' for you or your clients. Business 101 fail. Future Pub reminding us of the Boy Scout rules.

 

[usedtobefast]

Thanks Francois for sending that message and for posting it here.

I'll go on record to say that putting these ads directly in threads is a poor way to treat forum members, and dumping such a disruptive addition into the forum without warning the moderator team is piss-poor way to treat your volunteers. I imagine the mods have received numerous PM's on this and have exchanged a few "WTF?" posts in the staff room. Not the way to treat the people 'working' for you or your clients. Business 101 fail. Future Pub reminding us of the Boy Scout rules.

i am spending less time here myself. sad too.a lot of pluses are being paved over with spam in the middle of these threads.

 

[craig1985]

to Steve.Hulbert@futurenet.com; Charlotte.Pratten@futurenet.com
Advertising Sales Manager - Online; Group Marketing Manager

=====

Hi Charlotte and Steve,

I am one of the volunteer moderators on the cyclingnews forum, and I am writing you to say that I feel that you have crossed a line, for me, on the cycling forum, with the inclusion of Outbrain advertising and its chosen location on the forum, breaking up the content flow that is generated by its users.

For clarity: I am not talking about the main site, I am talking about the forum.

Forums like this are supposed to strike a balance between what we do for you, and what you do for us. We provide free content and interest (that attracts more traffic). And you provide us with the maintained backbone and server space. What we get is a place to discuss with people that share our interest and frequently get the news from around the world well before it is picked up by the main site. What you get is more paid jobs and higher profits. For years, I and many others, evidently, have been fine with this arrangement.

As a mod, you also get my unpaid time, and that of my fellow-mods, to make sure that you can present a site to advertisers that has quality posts, a welcoming atmosphere, is on topic, and thus attractive to a wide and diverse audience. As mods, we do the work that you normally would have to pay for, for the love of the community, for free.

If it all works well it is a beautiful symbiosis, and we all give and take.

Now, in a short space of time, you have shown twice that you are willing to milk our voluntary and free contributions with little regard for the feeling it generates in the community you profess to treasure. You have done that by disrupting the fabric of the place to the point where you put the user-driven content so firmly below advertising-opportunity .

First with those skim-ads, now with the Outbrain ads.

These last ones are

1) Breaking up the flow of the user content. More annoying to read means less likely to read.
2) Ads to the side an top and bottom is one thing, this is making the only attraction of the forum look like a site that doesn’t particularly cherish its own content more than it does adverts. CN has become an “ad-site”. The ratio of ads to content of the top of pages is pitiful.
3) The reports of auto-generated ads suggest they are utterly inappropriate to the site. They are either hilariously off-topic or, given the reports we get, or push dating agencies for overseas brides, cheapening the look and feel of the site. Many of the ads fly in the face of the message we as mods get about the tone and feel of the site we should aim for, or are the sort of stuff your word-filter is discouraging …. Go figure.
4) Evidently prompting several people to install ad-blocking add-ons, so your paying advertisers lose exposure through your choice alone (congrats, I hope people point that out to them).

MOSTLY, they are

5) Reminding all of us, thread click by thread click, that we are being milked for every possible penny without regards of what we, as the community that adds value to your site for free, wants or actually offers. No communication, no consultation, not even with any of the people “on your side of the pay roll” who, also evidently, more clued up about the feeling that this generates in the community “you support” .

It is clear that it is about the balance sheet for FP, and to some degree I have no problem with that. But by showing how out of touch you are with the actual forum itself, and how disrespectful you are to the actual content you are profiting from, and letting us handle a community revolt twice too, unpaid, without any warning, I am starting to wonder how well your balance sheet is balanced.

In the end, like all voluntary mods, it is about balance for us too. Is this a forum community I want to give to, free, at no cost? To the benefit of others?

This is increasingly starting to feel like a milking exercise in one direction only, and apparently you are willing to lose the sort of people who have given me, and the forum, more support, information and entertainment than the support or appreciation than I have ever experienced from CN or FP. And that includes begging for code fixes that take 1 minute to implement, and keep being reported time and time again as “annoying”.

I hope your balance sheet includes the potential loss of people willing to do things for free around here, and the havoc you guys wreak on the community feeling of the forum.

I hope you reconsider the implementation of this on the forum, or at the very least communicate with the people involved, or better the forum directly, about how to best implement it, if at all, to figure out what is tolerable to everyone. It is give and take. Surely there is a better way that keeps everyone ok-enough with things and it won’t come to the point where people stop giving the stuff that is taken far too much for granted “on balance sheets”?

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?p=760486#post760486

Yours Truly,

You wrote that in a way that I never could. Great letter BTW. The ads have had no affect on me, I mean if I want to see female T&A I will go elsewhere on the interwebs not on this forum. I have clicked on the ads on the side of the page with relevant cycling ads (ie bicycle components, the IG Markets ad etc.).

 

[Anonymous]

Does anyone actually know of a good cycling forum where we can all migrate towards when these ads stay up?

I myself find it pretty telling and completely expected that we have yet had any word from CN itself, and as the post by Francois shows, neither have the moderators.

Why migrate.. easy enough to build you own. phpbb is free and open source, as is simple machines, mybb (mybb is superb) etc. Yes they are more basic in some ways than the cn forum. But you control it.

$20 for a domain name - cyclingforum.net for example is £30 for two years..
$10 a month for unlimited bandwidth hosting

pays for itself with well placed relevant google ads, and if it makes more you buy a pro forum software..

This is something that annoys the hell out of me.. CN make a shedload of money from ads on the forum but still are using a version of the software thats two years out of date..

 

[Amsterhammer]

Nice one Francois, thank you for the effort! I really think it's shocking that there has not been a single 'official' response from the powers that be to this issue here. At the very least, we might have expected a 'give us a few days we're looking into it' delay message, but absolutely nothing. Major fail.

Why migrate.. easy enough to build you own. phpbb is free and open source, as is simple machines, mybb (mybb is superb) etc. Yes they are more basic in some ways than the cn forum. But you control it.

This is, of course, something that needs to be emphasized again and again to those who took the decision to spam the middle of pages!

 

[Anonymous]

This is, of course, something that needs to be emphasized again and again to those who took the decision to spam the middle of pages!

Forum, regular contributors, google ads.. nice little earner..

 

[mewmewmew13]

Why migrate.. easy enough to build you own. phpbb is free and open source, as is simple machines, mybb (mybb is superb) etc. Yes they are more basic in some ways than the cn forum. But you control it.

$20 for a domain name - cyclingforum.net for example is £30 for two years..
$10 a month for unlimited bandwidth hosting

pays for itself with well placed relevant google ads, and if it makes more you buy a pro forum software..

This is something that annoys the hell out of me.. CN make a shedload of money from ads on the forum but still are using a version of the software thats two years out of date..

I was thinking this exact thing. Start our own....I would bet we could all move over en masse....and WOULD!!

Francois that was an awesome load of work and beautifully written on our behalf. Thank you sincerely.

I would seriously think about a different venue if these ads keep up in the middle of the forum. Awful.
It's ok to tolerate the sides top bottom etc, and the space the thread/content is in just keeps shrinking. But in the middle is spam.

I sure hope that FP is paying attention.
They should.

 

[doolols]

Francois - great email. Puts the issue forward, without rancour or emotion.

I suspect they won't listen, and will lose a great resource to them. More's the pity.

 

[Spare Tyre]

Nice one Francois, thank you for the effort! I really think it's shocking that there has not been a single 'official' response from the powers that be to this issue here. At the very least, we might have expected a 'give us a few days we're looking into it' delay message, but absolutely nothing. Major fail.

Agreed.

I installed the ad blocking add-ons mentioned upthread, so I no longer see the mid-thread spam.

Of course I no longer see the other advertising either.

 

[ChrisE]

What a shock.

A tread with a bunch of whiners whining. Maybe you guys should consider getting a life.

 

[pedaling squares]

Agreed.

I installed the ad blocking add-ons mentioned upthread, so I no longer see the mid-thread spam.

Of course I no longer see the other advertising either.

Talk about CN shooting itself in the foot. I wonder how their long term sponsors like reading posts like that?

 

[mewmewmew13]

Talk about CN shooting itself in the foot. I wonder how their long term sponsors like reading posts like that?

To Arms!!
we will NOT go down without a fight!!

 

[Granville57]

Good god, this is hideous. I run Adblock but I still see the disruptive in-line garbage polluting the top of every thread. It's all completely non-sensical and doesn't have any bearing on any of my interests. The "From Around The Web" suggested links are what used to appear on the CN homepage but I don't see them there anymore.

What a colossal failure on the part of the "people behind the curtain" on this one. Why in the world would I ever click on a choice of "raspberry cupcakes" or "three types of girls you should never be friends with." I'd probably start with the one that likes raspberry cupcakes. The other two? I've already met them. I know the rules.

After just a little bit of catching up, I, for one, will hardly be contributing at all to the forum if these spam ads persist. (Big loss, I know, but what else really is there to do about it?)

Oh, excellent work, Francois.

 

[GreasyMonkey]

Thanks Francois.

Thanks Francois, very well written and succinct, thanks.

I can only echo other's displeasure and that using NoScript with Mozilla Firefox has relieved me of this rubbish.

Surely the "voice of CN", Daniel Benson needs to communicate with us of the "unwashed masses" as to what, if any, representations he might have made or be making with relation to this matter.

 

[boomcie]

I would love migrating to another forum. I will follow the pack blindly.
We could add a banned user sub-forum, which has always been my dream.

Yes, I have installed all of the ad blockers too.

The page certainly looks cleaner, but shame it has to come to that isn't it.

In fact the only ad I still see is the one top right for Tour of Britain. I will have to see how to get rid of that.

Try right clicking it. There will probably be some sort of adblock option there.

 

[Anonymous]

I was thinking this exact thing. Start our own....I would bet we could all move over en masse....and WOULD!!

Francois that was an awesome load of work and beautifully written on our behalf. Thank you sincerely.

I would seriously think about a different venue if these ads keep up in the middle of the forum. Awful.
It's ok to tolerate the sides top bottom etc, and the space the thread/content is in just keeps shrinking. But in the middle is spam.

I sure hope that FP is paying attention.
They should.

To show how simple it is.. demo smf install. More features than the cn forum, things like calendars as well so race threads can be linked to a calendar.., took all of an hour to install, and you can control how it works.
link here

admin logon - demo
password - demo

Mod logon - mod
password - mod

feel free to mess about to your hearts content..

note: this is a demo forum and in no way intended to replace the cn forum. It is purely for demonstration purposes to show how easy it is to create a forum and control its look, ads etc and make FP aware that there are alternatives

 

[ultimobici]

http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/index.php
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/#classic-forums

Seriously annoyed about these intrusive "ads". Makes it virtually impossible to read threads on an iPhone. Top, bottom & sides fair enough, but bang in the middle is akin to a street marketer barging into your conversation to push his wares.

 

[Anonymous]

I love SMF.. so much better than this junk.. The moderation tools are great.

The ability to set a particular troublesome user so that all their posts have to be approved prior to posting, so much more effective than short bans..

Wonder if thats available in the current cn software...