Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[burning]

Re:

Contador quickly went from one of my favorites to number 1 enemy, as far as cycling goes.

He won exactly 0 with this stage. He burned himself out just for Froome to lose, for some reason. He is now a sellout that does moves like this (at least since his last GC win) out of despair and to try and stay relevant, not to win at all.

Froome is the guy that doesn't f*** around. Froome is the guy that attacked on descents and won stages like that. Froome is the guy that attacked on the flat with Sagan. Froome is the guy that actually tried and win the Vuelta after winning the Tour. Froome is the guy that also tried to win and actually won medals at the Olympics. Froome also competed during the year.

He did all of that this year. He deserves all of the respect of honest cycling fans. He is extremely polite on and off his bike, an warrior and doesn't f*** around.

I just don't know how so many members could cheer for all of those riders helping Quintana (that barely worked until the last climb. He was by far the rider that worked less.), some of those with nothing to win or could only win an anonymous GC placing, and criticize Astana, for example.

Orica also raced like useless cowards, waking when it was too late.

Froome is a champion, but exhausted. It seems to me that Contador selling out and being such an hypocrite just killed this Vuelta.

I hope Alberto keeps getting demolished on any important race, from now on. It's also funny to me that Froome will end with a much better Palmares than Alberto, after everything is said and done.

This is easily the most ridiculous stuff I have ever read, thanks a lot for a good laugh.

By the way, can you explain that how on earth the author of "Mein Climb" could be polite off bike, I really don't understand that.

 

[MacBAir]

Re: Re:

4. Of course Quintana is a wheelsucking coward. He showed it time and time again, from his controversial Giro, to his pathetic tour where the stakes were higher and he never tried anything at all but grabbing motorcycles, to never actually participating on the making of today's move, being clearly the guy with most to win, but also the guy that worked far less, until doing the obvious thing to do. If he didn't work in the last climb, he wouldn't be an wheelsucker. He would be mentally ill.
5. Quintana did what any coward with a team of 18 riders that knew that his rivals were behind would do. He followed wheels, sucked wheels, sucked some more, then worked as little as possible, and then when it was obvious went for it, on the last 10% of today's stage, when Froome was already 3min behind.

Great.

Of course he worked far less. That was Fernández' and Castroviejo's job. As long as they were capable of it, they were contributing, and they were doing his share. They were pulling for Nairo. That's the point of a domestique. Once they were gone, it was up to Nairo to do his own work, and then he went to the front and stayed there, to extract maximum GC gain.

This is like sportzchick getting angry that Basso wasn't called a wheelsucker because he refused to chase his own teammate down for Evans in 2010. The answer is so freaking fundamental to an understanding of the way road cycling works that I simply can't comprehend your issue with it. Team leader joins attack group, team leader has domestiques, domestiques do work on leader's behalf to extract maximum gain for attack group, team leader is fresh to extract maximum gain when domestiques are tired. What's so difficult about that?

What's Nairo supposed to do, in your opinion? Is anything other than going full Landis cowardice?

Here you are, choosing to ignore the whole picture. Is it because I don't like the Smiths?

Anyway, the issue here is that Quintana had Contador as a domestique. Contador rode his guts off to make Froome lose the Vuelta.

Quintana was only allowed to wheelsuck because of that. Quintana only won time because of that. Quintana did nothing different than Leipheimer would do.

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

Your post brings me great joy. Thank you so very much!

Now it's about joy?

Remember when he said that it was winning or nothing, that he doesn't care about second or third? Today he was nothing more than another Movistar domestique, as usual. It's not like he can do anything more against the strongest riders when everybody is healthy, after his suspension, isn't it?

Looking at his recent performances, he couldn't even be number 4 or 5 at Movistar. Having said that, his performance reminded me of Uran Vs Vino at the Olympics, or Vino Vs Koblenev.

What a disgrace. He's now a sellout that killed the Vuelta. Congrats to him, I guess. Froome already broke him countless times, maybe that's the butthurt in him. That's the only explanation.

1.Quintana didn't work until the end because he had Rubén Fernández and Jonathan Castroviejo doing his share, like he damn well should have had, meanwhile Erviti and Valverde behind forced Froome's domestiques to spend themselves until he had none left. Don't be mad with Quintana because his domestiques were attentive and then did their jobs.

2.Even after getting in to the break of the day in the red jersey, pulling up the final climb solo on his own all the way, you're still clinging to your position that 3.Froome (who didn't take a pull until the final climb either despite it being far more in his interest and far more necessary once López was dropped) is a real racer and 4.Quintana is a wheelsucking coward, and allowing this to permeate the Contador thread because Contador tried the same long-distance dangerous gamble that paid off for him big time in 2012.

Orica messed up, definitely, but I don't think it was cowardice, as a couple of guys, Howson in particular, did sterling work when they did come to the front. I think they misjudged it badly; they didn't come to the front to close the gap down early, and spent too long waiting before doing so; then when Yates decided it was time that the big guns pulled, he did it near the end of Cotefabio and dropped a bunch of guys they could have done with help from in the valley floor before the last climb.

Sure, Froome is the guy trying to win the Vuelta after winning the Tour, but do you seriously want to argue that Quintana didn't try to win the Vuelta today?

1. Contador had his domestiques as well. In fact, he behaved exactly like another Movistar rider.
2. Quintana didn't get in the break. He found himself there after riders like Froome, Chaves and company got stuck behind a crash, and stayed there, never showing his face, until all of his domestiques at Tinkoff built a big gap.
3. Froome made a massive effort to bridge to the chasing group. Clearly you didn't saw the beginning of the stage. He also remained at the front, and was the first in line to answer those attacks in the chasing group, and clearly felt exhausted, probably asking how a guy that won 7 GTs sells himself like that. Also, at this point in time, who the hell thinks that Froome isn't one of the best racers in the Peloton? Did you even watch the tour?
4. Of course Quintana is a wheelsucking coward. He showed it time and time again, from his controversial Giro, to his pathetic tour where the stakes were higher and he never tried anything at all but grabbing motorcycles, to never actually participating on the making of today's move, being clearly the guy with most to win, but also the guy that worked far less, until doing the obvious thing to do. If he didn't work in the last climb, he wouldn't be an wheelsucker. He would be mentally ill.
5. Quintana did what any coward with a team of 18 riders that knew that his rivals were behind would do. He followed wheels, sucked wheels, sucked some more, then worked as little as possible, and then when it was obvious went for it, on the last 10% of today's stage, when Froome was already 3min behind.

Great.

But the main point here is that Alberto is officially a sellout. Clearly Froome broke him time and time again, from smallish stage races to the Tour. After his suspension, Alberto at his peak is barely top5 material in any race where the best riders compete in, making him NOT ONE OF THE BEST RIDERS.

These past two posts are the equivalent of a baby having her pacifier taken out of her mouth, with all the ensuing bawling, tears, tantrums and whining. Not a single thing in those posts has any rationale foundation. They are at top of the scale when it comes to the comically absurd. Try hard to take a deep breath and read Libertine's and Teflon's responses. They will be helpful in grasping what actually transpired on today's stage.

 

[hrotha]

This is hilarious.

I apologize on behalf of us sane AC haters out there.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Fwiw, Contador also f***ed up big time today imo. There is no way he should have finished behind Quintana today, who was focused fully on Froome and didn't care that much about Contador.

With 50km left, when the gap had well and truly been established and was going to succeed:
"Hey Nairo, none of my doms are working until you help them push on the flat." You reckon Nairo wouldn't have agreed to that and let Froome back into the race? At that point, either Movistar burn themselves out and delay the inevitable or Quintana starts working instantly. Either way Quintana becomes tired and suddenly Contador isn't just gaining time on Froome.

And also pls stop focusing on MacBAir's posts, he doesn't speak for us Froome fans

 

[burning]

Re:

This is hilarious.

I apologize on behalf of us sane AC haters out there.

I don't know why Libertine takes this guy seriously, this guy said that Gerrans is the biggest disappointment of the season as he was supposed to be next Froome/Wiggins.

 

[Angliru]

Re:

Fwiw, Contador also f***ed up big time today imo. There is no way he should have finished behind Quintana today, who was focused fully on Froome and didn't care that much about Contador.

With 50km left, when the gap had well and truly been established and was going to succeed:
"Hey Nairo, none of my doms are working until you help them push on the flat." You reckon Nairo wouldn't have agreed to that and let Froome back into the race? At that point, either Movistar burn themselves out and delay the inevitable or Quintana starts working instantly. Either way Quintana becomes tired and suddenly Contador isn't just gaining time on Froome.

And also pls stop focusing on MacBAir's posts, he doesn't speak for us Froome fans

Just proof that, contrary to what some here insist, Froome has his share of looney fans too.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re: Re:

Fwiw, Contador also f***ed up big time today imo. There is no way he should have finished behind Quintana today, who was focused fully on Froome and didn't care that much about Contador.

With 50km left, when the gap had well and truly been established and was going to succeed:
"Hey Nairo, none of my doms are working until you help them push on the flat." You reckon Nairo wouldn't have agreed to that and let Froome back into the race? At that point, either Movistar burn themselves out and delay the inevitable or Quintana starts working instantly. Either way Quintana becomes tired and suddenly Contador isn't just gaining time on Froome.

And also pls stop focusing on MacBAir's posts, he doesn't speak for us Froome fans

Just proof that, contrary to what some here insist, Froome has his share of looney fans too.

My post or MacBAir? Nobody denies it. Every rider is going to have fans that come up with ridiculous stuff if they have a large enough fanbase

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

This is hilarious.

I apologize on behalf of us sane AC haters out there.

I don't know why Libertine takes this guy seriously, this guy said that Gerrans is the biggest disappointment of the season as he was supposed to be next Froome/Wiggins.

Libertine is diplomatic. Me, not so much.

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

Fwiw, Contador also f***ed up big time today imo. There is no way he should have finished behind Quintana today, who was focused fully on Froome and didn't care that much about Contador.

With 50km left, when the gap had well and truly been established and was going to succeed:
"Hey Nairo, none of my doms are working until you help them push on the flat." You reckon Nairo wouldn't have agreed to that and let Froome back into the race? At that point, either Movistar burn themselves out and delay the inevitable or Quintana starts working instantly. Either way Quintana becomes tired and suddenly Contador isn't just gaining time on Froome.

And also pls stop focusing on MacBAir's posts, he doesn't speak for us Froome fans

Just proof that, contrary to what some here insist, Froome has his share of looney fans too.

My post or MacBAir? Nobody denies it. Every rider is going to have fans that come up with ridiculous stuff if they have a large enough fanbase

Definitely MacBair and not yours!

 

[Red Rick]

Dudes, dudettes. Do I even need mentioning it?

 

[burning]

I also think that MacBAir should also complain about that descent, here is an example for him:

It was a dangerous start. I had to unclip on the first corner and I immediately lost 150 meters to my group. After that, I didn’t want to take any more unnecessary risks. I don’t think people want to see a race decided on the downhill. We don’t want to see riders crashes. A start like that shouldn’t be allowed.

 

[thehook]

Any word from Roman Kreuziger?

Thank You! I got a nice chuckle out of this. I'm sure Roman could have done this in any of his GT wins. Oh wait....What did he ever even podium a GT? :surprised:

Love him...Hate him. Say whatever you want. Just tell me the name of the rider that dynamites a GT like AC?

 

[AlexNYC]

Re:

Fwiw, Contador also f***ed up big time today imo. There is no way he should have finished behind Quintana today, who was focused fully on Froome and didn't care that much about Contador.

With 50km left, when the gap had well and truly been established and was going to succeed:
"Hey Nairo, none of my doms are working until you help them push on the flat." You reckon Nairo wouldn't have agreed to that and let Froome back into the race? At that point, either Movistar burn themselves out and delay the inevitable or Quintana starts working instantly. Either way Quintana becomes tired and suddenly Contador isn't just gaining time on Froome.

And also pls stop focusing on MacBAir's posts, he doesn't speak for us Froome fans

I just want to point out that Quintana took plenty of pulls well before the last climb. I'm not sure why people here think he didn't... The cameras showed him doing so multiple times even with ~90 km to go in the stage.

 

[Scarponi]

Any word from Roman Kreuziger?

Haha I bet MR I drop out of the GC group my whole career Kreuziger will be eating humble pie

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

Quintana didn't work until the end because he had Rubén Fernández and Jonathan Castroviejo doing his share, like he damn well should have had, meanwhile Erviti and Valverde behind forced Froome's domestiques to spend themselves until he had none left. Don't be mad with Quintana because his domestiques were attentive and then did their jobs.

Even after getting in to the break of the day in the red jersey, pulling up the final climb solo on his own all the way, you're still clinging to your position that Froome (who didn't take a pull until the final climb either despite it being far more in his interest and far more necessary once López was dropped) is a real racer and Quintana is a wheelsucking coward, and allowing this to permeate the Contador thread because Contador tried the same long-distance dangerous gamble that paid off for him big time in 2012.

Orica messed up, definitely, but I don't think it was cowardice, as a couple of guys, Howson in particular, did sterling work when they did come to the front. I think they misjudged it badly; they didn't come to the front to close the gap down early, and spent too long waiting before doing so; then when Yates decided it was time that the big guns pulled, he did it near the end of Cotefabio and dropped a bunch of guys they could have done with help from in the valley floor before the last climb.

Sure, Froome is the guy trying to win the Vuelta after winning the Tour, but do you seriously want to argue that Quintana didn't try to win the Vuelta today?

Quintana did enough work to make a difference to the break. But both teams were driving it and it seemed most people in the break worked hard.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

Where is Hitch?
Will he still claim Contador can no longer be considered The Great One?
Because this, not winning mountain stages and GTs, no, this, this is truly Great.

You know what the standards are.

Win a TDF.

Podium one at least. But kudos for his opportunism. He kills off Froome's chances and puts himself in a good position for a podium. Would Quintana have made such a move first ?

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Where is Hitch?
Will he still claim Contador can no longer be considered The Great One?
Because this, not winning mountain stages and GTs, no, this, this is truly Great.

You know what the standards are.

Win a TDF.

Didn't you introduce the phrase when Contador was very busy losing his title in 2011?

Bingo bingo

 

[Bogotano]

Re: Re:

Your post brings me great joy. Thank you so very much!

Now it's about joy?

Remember when he said that it was winning or nothing, that he doesn't care about second or third? Today he was nothing more than another Movistar domestique, as usual. It's not like he can do anything more against the strongest riders when everybody is healthy, after his suspension, isn't it?

Looking at his recent performances, he couldn't even be number 4 or 5 at Movistar. Having said that, his performance reminded me of Uran Vs Vino at the Olympics, or Vino Vs Koblenev.

What a disgrace. He's now a sellout that killed the Vuelta. Congrats to him, I guess. Froome already broke him countless times, maybe that's the butthurt in him. That's the only explanation.

1.Quintana didn't work until the end because he had Rubén Fernández and Jonathan Castroviejo doing his share, like he damn well should have had, meanwhile Erviti and Valverde behind forced Froome's domestiques to spend themselves until he had none left. Don't be mad with Quintana because his domestiques were attentive and then did their jobs.

2.Even after getting in to the break of the day in the red jersey, pulling up the final climb solo on his own all the way, you're still clinging to your position that 3.Froome (who didn't take a pull until the final climb either despite it being far more in his interest and far more necessary once López was dropped) is a real racer and 4.Quintana is a wheelsucking coward, and allowing this to permeate the Contador thread because Contador tried the same long-distance dangerous gamble that paid off for him big time in 2012.

Orica messed up, definitely, but I don't think it was cowardice, as a couple of guys, Howson in particular, did sterling work when they did come to the front. I think they misjudged it badly; they didn't come to the front to close the gap down early, and spent too long waiting before doing so; then when Yates decided it was time that the big guns pulled, he did it near the end of Cotefabio and dropped a bunch of guys they could have done with help from in the valley floor before the last climb.

Sure, Froome is the guy trying to win the Vuelta after winning the Tour, but do you seriously want to argue that Quintana didn't try to win the Vuelta today?

1. Contador had his domestiques as well. In fact, he behaved exactly like another Movistar rider.
2. Quintana didn't get in the break. He found himself there after riders like Froome, Chaves and company got stuck behind a crash, and stayed there, never showing his face, until all of his domestiques at Tinkoff built a big gap.
3. Froome made a massive effort to bridge to the chasing group. Clearly you didn't saw the beginning of the stage. He also remained at the front, and was the first in line to answer those attacks in the chasing group, and clearly felt exhausted, probably asking how a guy that won 7 GTs sells himself like that. Also, at this point in time, who the hell thinks that Froome isn't one of the best racers in the Peloton? Did you even watch the tour?
4. Of course Quintana is a wheelsucking coward. He showed it time and time again, from his controversial Giro, to his pathetic tour where the stakes were higher and he never tried anything at all but grabbing motorcycles, to never actually participating on the making of today's move, being clearly the guy with most to win, but also the guy that worked far less, until doing the obvious thing to do. If he didn't work in the last climb, he wouldn't be an wheelsucker. He would be mentally ill.
5. Quintana did what any coward with a team of 18 riders that knew that his rivals were behind would do. He followed wheels, sucked wheels, sucked some more, then worked as little as possible, and then when it was obvious went for it, on the last 10% of today's stage, when Froome was already 3min behind.

Great.

But the main point here is that Alberto is officially a sellout. Clearly Froome broke him time and time again, from smallish stage races to the Tour. After his suspension, Alberto at his peak is barely top5 material in any race where the best riders compete in, making him NOT ONE OF THE BEST RIDERS.

These past two posts are the equivalent of a baby having her pacifier taken out of her mouth, with all the ensuing bawling, tears, tantrums and whining. Not a single thing in those posts has any rationale foundation. They are at top of the scale when it comes to the comically absurd. Try hard to take a deep breath and read Libertine's and Teflon's responses. They will be helpful in grasping what actually transpired on today's stage.

OMG this is too much, this guy must be trolling, no way he can say stuff like that and actually believe it

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

Fwiw, Contador also f***ed up big time today imo. There is no way he should have finished behind Quintana today, who was focused fully on Froome and didn't care that much about Contador.

With 50km left, when the gap had well and truly been established and was going to succeed:
"Hey Nairo, none of my doms are working until you help them push on the flat." You reckon Nairo wouldn't have agreed to that and let Froome back into the race? At that point, either Movistar burn themselves out and delay the inevitable or Quintana starts working instantly. Either way Quintana becomes tired and suddenly Contador isn't just gaining time on Froome.

And also pls stop focusing on MacBAir's posts, he doesn't speak for us Froome fans

I thought Quintana took his turns on the flat as well.
I think Alberto played it well. He was just cooked after such a hard day and Nairo was much stronger. And maybe he earned himself some favors for later in the race.

 

[Hugo Koblet]

Re:

This is hilarious.

I apologize on behalf of us sane AC haters out there.

Lol great pots MacBAir must be the love child of Michelle Cound and Roman Kreuziger. On acid.

By the way, I think some are reading way too much into the "Contador didn't want Froome to win" stuff. Contador just wanted to attack and see what happened today. He would have done the same had Froome joined him instead of Quintana.

 

[purcell]

Re:

Contador quickly went from one of my favorites to number 1 enemy, as far as cycling goes.

He won exactly 0 with this stage. He burned himself out just for Froome to lose, for some reason. He is now a sellout that does moves like this (at least since his last GC win) out of despair and to try and stay relevant, not to win at all.

Froome is the guy that doesn't f*** around. Froome is the guy that attacked on descents and won stages like that. Froome is the guy that attacked on the flat with Sagan. Froome is the guy that actually tried and win the Vuelta after winning the Tour. Froome is the guy that also tried to win and actually won medals at the Olympics. Froome also competed during the year.

He did all of that this year. He deserves all of the respect of honest cycling fans. He is extremely polite on and off his bike, an warrior and doesn't f*** around.

I just don't know how so many members could cheer for all of those riders helping Quintana (that barely worked until the last climb. He was by far the rider that worked less.), some of those with nothing to win or could only win an anonymous GC placing, and criticize Astana, for example.

Orica also raced like useless cowards, waking when it was too late.

Froome is a champion, but exhausted. It seems to me that Contador selling out and being such an hypocrite just killed this Vuelta.


I hope Alberto keeps getting demolished on any important race, from now on. It's also funny to me that Froome will end with a much better Palmares than Alberto, after everything is said and done.

Someone is off their medication.

 

[MacBAir]

Re: Re:

This is hilarious.

I apologize on behalf of us sane AC haters out there.

I don't know why Libertine takes this guy seriously, this guy said that Gerrans is the biggest disappointment of the season as he was supposed to be next Froome/Wiggins.

You aren't the quickest cookie. I didn't meant Gerrans. I meant Geraint.

I also think that MacBAir should also complain about that descent, here is an example for him:

It was a dangerous start. I had to unclip on the first corner and I immediately lost 150 meters to my group. After that, I didn’t want to take any more unnecessary risks. I don’t think people want to see a race decided on the downhill. We don’t want to see riders crashes. A start like that shouldn’t be allowed.

What were you doing when Froome won that stage attacking downhill in this years' tour? Crying because he broke Alberto?

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Fwiw, Contador also f***ed up big time today imo. There is no way he should have finished behind Quintana today, who was focused fully on Froome and didn't care that much about Contador.

With 50km left, when the gap had well and truly been established and was going to succeed:
"Hey Nairo, none of my doms are working until you help them push on the flat." You reckon Nairo wouldn't have agreed to that and let Froome back into the race? At that point, either Movistar burn themselves out and delay the inevitable or Quintana starts working instantly. Either way Quintana becomes tired and suddenly Contador isn't just gaining time on Froome.

And also pls stop focusing on MacBAir's posts, he doesn't speak for us Froome fans

I just want to point out that Quintana took plenty of pulls well before the last climb. I'm not sure why people here think he didn't... The cameras showed him doing so multiple times even with ~90 km to go in the stage.

Indeed, the greater ride was from Quintana, not Contador:

Rider A: Follows Brambilla into an early break, puts in a couple of digs to help it stay away and gets his team-mates to work on the front, before dropping off with 3km to go. Result: Moves up a couple of places to be in with a better chance of reaching the podium.

Rider B: Follows Brambilla and a few other riders into an early break, gets his team-mates to take big pulls whilst occasionally working himself. The remainder of his team-mates completely disrupt the chase behind. Despite being in the break all day, is at the front for the entire last 8km, riding nearly everyone off his wheel (including rider A) without even attacking . Result: Gains over two minutes on his only real GC threat and, barring crashes, in a position where he should win the race.

Contador's ride was great and has cemented his podium ambitions. But Quintana's ride was on a different level. Has Contador ever even attacked like that whilst in the race lead in a GT?

 

[LaFlorecita]

Gardeccia stage, 2011 Giro.
Fwiw while Brambilla attacked uphill and Alberto followed, this was closed down by Froome. Alberto established the break by attacking in the downhill. Watch the video. Without Alberto, Quintana wouldn't have gotten away, ever. He wouldn't even have tried. I think it's unfair to praise Quintana more than Contador.
If anything, Contador didn't even have much to ride for. Yet he still tried it. Quintana had everything to ride for. But sure, Quintana's ride was on another level, Contador's ride was "just great".